CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[Snively]

If it was CB's blood don't you think somebody would have noticed she had a cut on her or are you saying, Woodland, that the blood was stored and the entire site staged using the stored blood?

Woodland, at what point that day or in time do you think Liz was last alive?

If you don't care much for assumptions isn't a case involving a missing person based one hell of a lot on assumptions?

 

[Woodland]

I think if it was C's it was freshly drawn into a tube using a needle.

Sticking with the known evidence - as small as it is - so don't know anything about EB dying. 1/4 pint or less than half of what donors give in one sitting doesn't sound traumatic or life threatening to me. CFS was very careful not to commit on the blood so find I can't either. That's just me.

 

[Woodland]

Would like to know if there is a DNA profile on file in case remains are found - if there is one, the correct and definitive thing to have done is eliminate C before calling it EB's. Science.

 

[eyesonly]

As for family involvement I see two possible theories

1) in NCTM I believe RB says something to the effect that mr Bain was trying to build an "empire". Could he have owed money to the wrong people who were hell bent on collecting. Pay by June 19th or we will take your daughter. Mr Bain screws off to Florida so he's not around if they go through with their threat and they did.

2) EB sent a letter to her brothers (mb) gf NS in essence telling her to not get used to abuse and to break up with him. I believe younger PB was sent deliver said letter couple weeks before her disappearance. Maybe PB took EB's car and got parking ticket at NS house while delivering letter.
Brother MB finds out about letter from gf NS or maybe from own brother and is irate tracks down EB misses his own class, has tendency for violence and starts hitting her, accidentally killing her, breaking neck maybe

Just putting them out there

 

[Woodland]

Could be eyesonly. NCTM does say Mr B was having financial problems (he had 2 or more rental properties) and that he was having problems with his employment at Ontario Hydro.

Serious stress. No room for any more drama.

EB's wallet found in her room bugs me btw. Not the norm. Didn't go for the 'if she didn't have to make a purchase and was only driving a short distance maybe she didn't bother' theory. If she was the one that withdrew $80.00 then she had some sort of purchase in mind or as a contingency. Don't see why she or anyone would leave their wallet and license behind - where was the purse??

 

[Snively]

The problem with a family member is could one person keep quiet all these years and watch his own family torn apart so terribly?

The money owing part was looked into by the police. They did follow up on Mr. Bain being in Florida and they checked financial records of the family and didn't find anything weird.

 

[Woodland]

It was confirmed Mr B returned from Florida on the 20th - but have not seen if that was the original scheduled return date or a change in return date. Would be curious to have that confirmed one way or another.

'His' own family? Why not 'her'?

 

[Snively]

The book does mention it was his regular scheduled flight. 8:00am out of Tampa I think it was. There's a post on here that had the information as well.

 

[eyesonly]

Would love to go through the 10000 pages of police and crown files.

Crowns view is to nail RB
Defense (trial, appeal and civil suit) is to unnail RB and look for LE wrongdoings

Be good to have a neutral view simply looking for EB. Bet one could see lots of things others have missed.
Jmo

 

[Woodland]

... it wouldn't be unusual for her or any beautiful woman to either have another guy waiting in the wings a la EG#2, who ironically EB's mother originally asked police to check out by sending a cruiser over to his house the morning after EB went missing; of course, she waited until RB was out of the house before she mentioned that to the police and it never surfaced until 2004.


During the trial it was disclosed that EB was dating both RB and another man, MF, during the summer of 1989 ...

From post #794 -

Which one is EG#2 - EGen or EGos? Either way, what would make Mrs B send a cruiser to check either household? We know that EB did see EGen from time to time during her relationship with RB.

Mrs B was aware of a few things either way, imo. Find that every time I go through a scenario, I inevitably come back to Mrs B knows what happened to her daughter that day. Don't quite know why, I just end up with that thought.

On the diary notes - there is one entry that I thought very telling and could spell trouble at some point - paraphrasing - EB talks about knowing she had power over a man and how that felt. With my Dr Phil hat on, that is something daddy taught her. He exercised power over the females in his domain - that is what EB grew up knowing - power over someone rather than a give and take relationship. Mr B did not get along with females (and some males) outside of his domain as well per NCTM.

Jmo.

 

[eyesonly]

From post #794 -

Which one is EG#2 - EGen or EGos? Either way, what would make Mrs B send a cruiser to check either household? We know that EB did see EGen from time to time during her relationship with RB Jmo.

Not sure about eg 1 or 2 anymore. But here he is talking about Egen.

 

[Woodland]

Thanks - could someone please remind me if EGen was an ex bf of EB or someone she knew for a long time and entertained the thought of a relationship with from time to time? Or both. I know she went for hand-in-hand walks with EGen on occasion.

It would make sense Mrs B would dispatch LE to check EGen's house knowing he was an ex. Looking for what Mrs B did knew about him at that moment.

 

[Snively]

EGen was an ex-boyfriend. He said he and Liz were just friends by the time of 1990.

 

[Woodland]

My point is that if EB sensed that RB was about to cut the cord it wouldn't be unusual for her or any beautiful woman to either have another guy waiting in the wings a la EG#2, who ironically EB's mother originally asked police to check out by sending a cruiser over to his house the morning after EB went missing; of course, she waited until RB was out of the house before she mentioned that to the police and it never surfaced until 2004.

Not understanding Mrs B here - why didn't she call EGen's house before calling LE? I would have under those circumstances.

 

[eyesonly]

Not understanding Mrs B here - why didn't she call EGen's house before calling LE? I would have under those circumstances.

Uh yeah, agree, to actually ask to send a cruiser. Seems like mrs B knew Egen was more involved in EB's life than was thought maybe.
Did they actually send a cruiser?
Seems she was concerned about Egen in a way that she wasn't with RB. Egen had asked EB to pick him up a book for school (not sure if he was teaching something) he said he phoned her few times that evening no response line busy I believe.
Did EB tell mom she's meeting Egen to give him the book but said to mom "I'm going to meet Egen give him a book for school but if RB calls just tell him I went to check the tennis courts out, he wouldn't understand mom, thanks, love you bye "

Also sounds like this is on the Wednesday morning first morning and LE were already at the house as was RB and mrs b didn't make the request until RB left the house. Again maybe still in the mindset if EB asked her not to tell RB about Egen.

Secretsource can you confirm this was the wed morning and do you know if LE actually sent a cruiser thanks

 

[Woodland]

Well done eyesonly - the book!

Three separate trips from home on 19 June 1990 (which I never believed btw) and EB did not do the one thing she had committed to doing - pick up a book for EGen. The book was important to him and he could not get it himself due to the hours required at the job he had at the time.

All those trips were centered around the campus - something that defied logic, imo.

The book had to be picked up during business hours - will look for the passage in NCTM. Timeline?

 

[Woodland]

NCTM - page 100 - 101. EGen is relating to Mr Bain, on the phone from work, what he knew of EB Monday 18 June through Tuesday 19 June.

EGen called EB on Monday, during the day from work, to ask her to pick up a text book for him (he had an upcoming job teaching a summer course at this school and needed the text book to prepare for classes) at a school that is 7.7 kms from the Bain residence. He was currently working at a factory from 6:30 am to 7:00 pm and could not get away to pick it up himself.

Neither one knew the exact address of the school - EGen said he would call her back with the address. EB had to work an afternoon shift on Monday (3 to 11 pm) and told EGen she could not go that day.

EGen could not call her back until the next night - 19 June. He called at 8:00 pm, not knowing she had a class scheduled for that time. The line was busy. He called again around 10:00 pm - the line was busy.

As a side note - EGen could not understand why no one answered as they had call waiting. Mr Bain explained that with, brother P had a cordless phone in his room, and apparently if you have more than one cordless phone connected to a line, the intermittent waves can knock out your line altogether. Anyone who called would have got a busy signal. According to Mr Bain 'I'm almost positive that's what happened'.

When EGen was calling Tuesday evening, '... he imagined that, being the thoughtful person she was, Liz might well have taken the time to locate X school on her own and had already picked up his book by now'.

So not as definitive as first thought - no specific commitment. However, EB supposedly made 3 trips from home on Tuesday to the campus, and the school was only 2 major intersections after the campus - although she did not know that on Monday.

 

[Woodland]

So why would Mr B, who was in Florida on the night of 19 June, feel he had to come up with an explanation for EGen on 20 June as to why the phone gave a busy signal at 8 and 10 pm the night before? Mr B is explaining the phone was knocked out all that time.

Mr B knew at the time of this explanation that RB had also called at 11:00 pm - and the line was busy.

Not sure why 'I don't know' wouldn't have worked.

 

[Snively]

So why would Mr B, who was in Florida on the night of 19 June, feel he had to come up with an explanation for EGen on 20 June as to why the phone gave a busy signal at 8 and 10 pm the night before? Mr B is explaining the phone was knocked out all that time.

Mr B knew at the time of this explanation that RB had also called at 11:00 pm - and the line was busy.

Not sure why 'I don't know' wouldn't have worked.

How about the simple reason he explained it was because he was asked and was pretty positive that was what happened with the phones. I'm sure it had happened previously.

 

[Woodland]

How about an explanation that 'intermittent waves' on a second cordless phone in a home prevented 'call waiting' to activate - in the 1990 era?

If I wasn't home at this time - I would certainly say 'I don't know' as to why someone in the Bain home did not answer 'call waiting'. Imo, sounds like damage control - but that's just me.

Very glad you find it worth responding to though Snively.