awaiting sentencing phase

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MURDERER_SERVANT said:
There is an interesting comment on Juror13 blog about the assessor Janette Henzen-du Toit and her role in all this..

Two comments from Tess worth reading..

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/pictures-from-behind-the-doorone-tragic-night/#comments
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After the muddled reading of the final verdict by Masipa, I can easily believe such a person as the assessor responsible for most of the writing of the verdict. I wonder if she would feel so inclined if it were one of her family who were shot dead, but I suppose she has already applied her emotion to this case with having a disabled relative and the abuse he suffered while imprisoned.
I'm amazed by it all, so here on in, a disabled person can literally get away with murder. Will the government step in and make the necessary changes to move their judicial system and the state of their prisons into the 21st Century?

I think the present rich and influential residents of SA are certainly not going to raise the issue and help change, if it is considered that prisons are for the blacks, who've committed anything from misdemeanors to felonies, and for the 'really, really' bad whites who've committed unchallengable serious crimes against many of their own. :facepalm: :thinking: JMO
 
Respectfully snipped for space ~

Sphinxie said:
Hello dear websleuthers, this is my first post here.
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Hi and :welcome: Sphinxie,

It's good to have many people's point of view, great to have you here.

I don't agree the guy in the video sounds like a woman, but that's just my opinion.

I don't understand about this thread not being well balanced, everyone is welcome to give their version of events. Imo, this case is different than many others because people can't discuss other suspects because there is none. OP killed Reeva, there is no denying that.

Even if one doesn't agree with version's put forward that are different to OPs, can one really agree that OP did not shoot 4 black talon bullets into the toilet cubicle to kill? There were no warning shots, he didn't shoot once and wait for a response, call the police. He shot to kill the 'intruder'. That is murder imo. He is a firearm expert, he's been shooting for most of his life, and the whole 'slow burn' effect presented by Roux is just ludicrous. OP was not beaten and tortured for years, and not been a victim of an armed assault, he doesn't have a leg to stand on, yet there we have it, he's a paralympian, so he is exempt of being held responsible for taking the life of his girlfriend, and lo and behold, on Valentine's Day.

JMO
 
<Respectfully snipped>

ColonelMustard said:
I think her verdict was incompetent. I'm not sure she should be disbarred, nor would she be as professionals protect their own. Maybe a referral for a mental health eval. and a forensic investigation of her bank account(s) - in SA and off-shore, as well as following the trail of the "lost" rhino horns. The timing of that "burglary" is too precious for words.

But that's just me.
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Hahaha, I bet a lot here will agree with you. It's a funny thing with the Pistorius family, they're out there in force on twitter denying things before the police have even made a statement, and have done this repeatedly over the years, but some things just disappear completely or matters are never mentioned again, the two most recent being:

1. Carl's car accident. We still haven't heard whether a) Carl had been drinking and if blood tests had been carried out, and b) which driver was charged. The Pistorius family haven't even mentioned whether the other driver survived or the extent of his injuries, and what's more they probably couldn't care less. A more self-centred bunch I've yet to meet. The whole world revolves around them.

2. The precious rhino horns. Arnold said they had "certain leads". That was a walk-in safe in his own business premises. I think even a safe-breaker would find it a tad difficult to get into a safe like that. For goodness sake, how many people would know the combination? I find it hard to believe that anyone outside the family circle would know. He never said the premises had been broken into so it definitely sounds like an inside job. Well, as most of us have probably said at one time or another, I wouldn't put anything past that lot.
 
LemonMousse said:
That sounds like a man to me.

If Pistorius can sound like a woman, why did he fail to demonstrate that? Would have been the easiest thing in the world. He didn't because he can't.

A few other things regarding screaming - isn't it just the most remarkable coincidence that everyone who heard screaming not only said it was female, but they all also heard a male voice at the same time.

While conversely, everyone who heard crying heard ONE person, and it was male*

Too neat to be a coincidence.

Welcome, btw. Your English is very good.

* Except Mrs VDM.
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One other thing to add to your comments, the defence team had a recording of OP allegedly screaming like a woman. As the screaming was such a crucial part of the case, they would have played the recording to prove it. The only reason why they didn't is because they knew those witnesses would say that it sounded nothing like what they heard.
 
Tick tock, one :bed: to go.

I have my green bucket ready for the sob stories, tissues to dry my eyes, and a voodoo doll and some pins when my blood pressure starts to rise.
 
Hi Sphinxie, and welcome to WS.

With regards to OP being able to scream like a woman, do you have any thoughts at all as to why Roux said he would provide evidence of this... and never did? Could it possibly be because OP doesn't scream like a woman, and this is why Roux was unable to provide the evidence he promised? What other reason could he have had for not following through on his promise?
 
Estelle said:
Oscar Pistorius&#8217; aunt asked prosecutor Gerrie Nel if he &#8220;was not ashamed&#8221; of the Paralympian&#8217;s murder trial in the high court in Pretoria.

Lois Pistorius glowered at Nel yesterday and asked in Afrikaans: &#8220;Kry jy nie skaam nie? (Aren&#8217;t you ashamed?)

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/ashamed-oscars-aunt-gerrie-nel/

This is one disgusting family!
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This really bugs me, the fact that both Oscar Pistorius and his family are so arrogant as to think that they are above all this, and him being tried for murder. At the end of the day, whether he is guilty or not, they really ought to realise that if a woman gets blasted to bits with four bullets through a toilet door, then they are going to have to go through this whole process because in many cases, it will be just that .. murder .. what makes them think they should be allowed to avoid all this, even if they do think that Pistorius is innocent? It just stands to reason that when an event of such magnitude, resulting in the death of a woman like this, of course it's not just going to be accepted that it was an accident! Would they really want to see hoards of other murderers going free on the basis 'how dare you suggest I murdered her?!' .. and of course, all murderers are going to try their damndest to cover up, so there needs to be investigations, and there needs to be trials .. and imo, they ought to just accept that. It's one thing to believe that a member of your family is innocent, but it's quite another thing to actually say to the prosecution and to members of Reeva's family, that they should be 'ashamed' of bringing this case (or in the same vein, Pistorius's comment to Gina 'I don't know how you sleep at night') .. if a member of their family had been killed in such circumstances, I seriously could not see them not bringing a court case for murder against that person. Different when it's on the other foot though, isn't it and it's one of their own.
 
Judgejudi said:
Tick tock, one :bed: to go.

I have my green bucket ready for the sob stories, tissues to dry my eyes, and a voodoo doll and some pins when my blood pressure starts to rise.
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To be honest, I'm not even interested in this bit .. it just doesn't seem relevant any more, seeing as I don't believe the correct verdict was arrived at in the first place. Even if he got 15 years (which I very much doubt), it will not be officially recorded that he knowingly killed Reeva, and that is just plain wrong if he did in fact kill her intentionally .. it was the truth that I was hoping they would be able to get at, at the end of the day and quite honestly I think the prosecution have done a fairly bad job .. sorry Nel .. but looking back at the trial he seemed to spend way too long on irrelevant things, I think we on here (espesh Mr Fossil with his phone data charts) have highlighted a whole load more things that he could've actually used, and interrogated Pistorius on and tripped him up on.
 
Judgejudi said:
Tick tock, one :bed: to go.

I have my green bucket ready for the sob stories, tissues to dry my eyes, and a voodoo doll and some pins when my blood pressure starts to rise.
Click to expand...

:floorlaugh:

this is going to be one interesting week (OT including Dewani feigning illness :facepalm: ), this trial has been about OP all the way, anymore sob stories about his life is going to make me sick to the stomach too. I'm hoping June Steenkamp brings this trial back to where it belongs, the life of Reeva Steenkamp and how it was brutally cut short by her lover!
 
jay-jay said:
This really bugs me, the fact that both Oscar Pistorius and his family are so arrogant as to think that they are above all this, and him being tried for murder. At the end of the day, whether he is guilty or not, they really ought to realise that if a woman gets blasted to bits with four bullets through a toilet door, then they are going to have to go through this whole process because in many cases, it will be just that .. murder .. what makes them think they should be allowed to avoid all this, even if they do think that Pistorius is innocent? It just stands to reason that when an event of such magnitude, resulting in the death of a woman like this, of course it's not just going to be accepted that it was an accident! Would they really want to see hoards of other murderers going free on the basis 'how dare you suggest I murdered her?!' .. and of course, all murderers are going to try their damndest to cover up, so there needs to be investigations, and there needs to be trials .. and imo, they ought to just accept that. It's one thing to believe that a member of your family is innocent, but it's quite another thing to actually say to the prosecution and to members of Reeva's family, that they should be 'ashamed' of bringing this case (or in the same vein, Pistorius's comment to Gina 'I don't know how you sleep at night') .. if a member of their family had been killed in such circumstances, I seriously could not see them not bringing a court case for murder against that person. Different when it's on the other foot though, isn't it and it's one of their own.
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I've yet to see this family express a shred of humility for OP's actions. The fact they feel entitled to talk to Nel like that shows just how arrogant they are. I think they're cold and callous, and don't give a damn about anyone unless they're within the 'fold'. Reeva is just an annoying obstacle to them. So much for lying about how they suffered her loss as much as her own family. Reeva meant nothing to them at all, and this whole charade proves it. Nel is trying to get justice for Reeva, and the bloody Aunt asks him if he's not ashamed? How about their precious OP swanning around not long after he killed Reeva (while he was in mourning, lest we forget) and getting a new g/friend before he'd even been tried for murdering the previous one! Is the Aunt not ashamed of that?? Apparently not. Only Nel should be ashamed for trying to get the truth out of that lying toad on the stand. What twisted priorities that family has.
 
soozieqtips said:
I've yet to see this family express a shred of humility for OP's actions. The fact they feel entitled to talk to Nel like that shows just how arrogant they are. I think they're cold and callous, and don't give a damn about anyone unless they're within the 'fold'. Reeva is just an annoying obstacle to them. So much for lying about how they suffered her loss as much as her own family. Reeva meant nothing to them at all, and this whole charade proves it. Nel is trying to get justice for Reeva, and the bloody Aunt asks him if he's not ashamed? How about their precious OP swanning around not long after he killed Reeva (while he was in mourning, lest we forget) and getting a new g/friend before he'd even been tried for murdering the previous one! Is the Aunt not ashamed of that?? Apparently not. Only Nel should be ashamed for trying to get the truth out of that lying toad on the stand. What twisted priorities that family has.
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Yes, their behaviour is arrogant; and, in any case, OP's actions have wrought such devastation upon Reeva and her family that, on any construction of his intention, I see no reason why he should escape punishment, even if, disappointingly, the Court is now proceeding on the basis that his actions were negligent rather than deliberate. Every time I re-visit the photographs of the blood and of Reeva's belongings, I am struck by the sheer awfulness of what he did, intentional or not.
 
This is also my first post but have following the trial avidly here and on tv. One thing that does make me mad is the suggestion that it was op screaming. Yes he can wail in a high pitched tone which may be mistaken for a female but why on earth would he emit bloodcurdling screams as if in fear for his life? He wasn't under any threat. He saw no intruder. He heard a noise of wood moving. Why would that make him scream for his life like a woman? Shout loudly & aggressively in a deep masculine threatening way perhaps. Op never screamed imo. He shouted and wailed. It was Reeva screaming for her life.
Sorry I know it's been said before but it just makes me so frustrated. Even the guy in that you tube video wasn't screaming but wailing/crying.
I always wondered what would drive me to post here for the first time! Thank you to all of you for your fantastic posts, I have been engrossed by the amazing work done on here.
 
Judgejudi said:
David Dadic has just published his latest blog re this coming week's proceedings. It's interesting to read but I'm not happy. It's making me worry even more.

http://whosyourdadic.com/2014/10/12/and-the-oscar-goes-to/
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Thanks for the link. This part bothers me:

"So there you have it. Masipa has a lot to consider, again. She will have to weigh all the evidence and argument delivered by both sides relating to the above and hopefully come to the correct decision".

She had all the evidence during the trial, and dismissed almost everything that supported the state's case, choosing instead to believe OP crying afterwards indicated genuine remorse (because nobody's ever cried after they've killed someone). I don't think anything Nel says will make a jot of difference, apart from perhaps this:

"He may also attempt to persuade the court that even though Oscar is a first time offender, he should actually have been convicted of a gun related charge prior to the death of Reeva and that, in that sense, Nel may argue that he shouldn’t be perceived as an actual first time offender".

If the owners of Tasha's had called the police that night, everything might have turned out so differently. I wonder if they feel they should have done the right thing and reported it. OP would have been convicted, and Masipa would have been able to take that into account. She knows about it, but will it sway her? I don't think so. She seems oblivious to Reeva. She's just the deceased.
 
A lot of us noticed the assessor Henzen-du Toit whispering to Masipa from time to time. We also noticed … and it seemed obvious … that it appeared Masipa was reading the judgment for the first time and that she was making amendments from time to time. IMO Masipa did not write the judgment at all.

This is an extract from a comment by Tess in Lisa’s blog.

“… though I have began to wonder more about the assessor Janette Henzen-du Toit and her role in all this.

This assessor is doing a doctorate on Holistic sentencing! To give a criminal the least sentence possible! Her background as an advocate is for Criminal Defense, in addition to that she is heavily interested in the paraplegic community and may be married into a family that has a paraplegic athlete.

There was a reporter that noted the wording, phrases, etc. of the verdict was very unlike Judge Masipa. May it not have been the lady assessor?

Also has anyone read that this is Judge Masipa’s last case? That was written back in Feb or March”.

I don't know where Tess got her information from, but if Masipa does retire after this case we won't be able to blame it on this trial. More sleuthing needed.

Scroll down past all the photos. It’s about the 7th comment and is posted by Tess.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/pictures-from-behind-the-doorone-tragic-night/
 
ColonelMustard said:
When Dick Cheney ( former US VP?, well something or other) went walking around, people just shouted out obscenities to him. If I lived in SA, I have visions of myself doing something similar - losing complete control and going off on Masipa, yelling and ranting at her, if our paths ever crossed.

That's so weird because I never yell at anyone or even get very upset.


I wonder, if I was Reeva's mom, whether I would take the stand and testify about his sentencing. I might have a different plan -- to reclaim my power and Reeva's, too, as her proxy. Just like Reeva most certainly stood up to OP and gave him a piece of her mind, s Reeva's mom I'd do the same to Masipa.

I might sit down up there in the witness box, stare straight at her with steely eyes for a long time - longer than comfortable so everyone would wonder what was going on -- then I'd slowly get up and tell her the whole thing was a mockery, which I refused to dignify any longer with my presence.

I would tell her that participating any further in the farce would be co-signing her bu!!sh#t, and I refused to do it. Then everyone on my side/Reeva's side would get up and we'd all walk out.

Just as I'm going to hate seeing Oscar's sneers and smirking tomorrow morning, now I'm also going to hate seeing Masipa flashing her sickly-sweet smile at the Pistorius clan, at Oscar, at ANYONE - and hearing her soft, saccharine, voice of betrayal.

Maybe I'll surprise myself and, instead, feel pity for her. Whatever I feel it won't have anything in common with how I felt about her before the verdict. That I know. (I'm nervous to see Nel, again, too, but for wholly different reasons.)
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BBM

If Mrs S did this, I wouldn't blame her one bit. In fact, I think it would be rather wonderful!
 
Mamadoos said:
This is also my first post but have following the trial avidly here and on tv. One thing that does make me mad is the suggestion that it was op screaming. Yes he can wail in a high pitched tone which may be mistaken for a female but why on earth would he emit bloodcurdling screams as if in fear for his life? He wasn't under any threat. He saw no intruder. He heard a noise of wood moving. Why would that make him scream for his life like a woman? Shout loudly & aggressively in a deep masculine threatening way perhaps. Op never screamed imo. He shouted and wailed. It was Reeva screaming for her life.
Sorry I know it's been said before but it just makes me so frustrated. Even the guy in that you tube video wasn't screaming but wailing/crying.
I always wondered what would drive me to post here for the first time! Thank you to all of you for your fantastic posts, I have been engrossed by the amazing work done on here.
Click to expand...

BBM Lol!

Welcome Mamadoos! I agree that the complete absence of common sense, let alone lateral thinking, demonstrated by Masipa & Co is deeply frustrating. I also find it illogical that the witnesses whose interpretation of the sounds has been preferred missed almost all of the bangs in a case where it is common cause that there were four gunshots.
 
Judgejudi said:
A lot of us noticed the assessor Henzen-du Toit whispering to Masipa from time to time. We also noticed … and it seemed obvious … that it appeared Masipa was reading the judgment for the first time and that she was making amendments from time to time. IMO Masipa did not write the judgment at all.

This is an extract from a comment by Tess in Lisa’s blog.

“… though I have began to wonder more about the assessor Janette Henzen-du Toit and her role in all this.

This assessor is doing a doctorate on Holistic sentencing! To give a criminal the least sentence possible! Her background as an advocate is for Criminal Defense, in addition to that she is heavily interested in the paraplegic community and may be married into a family that has a paraplegic athlete.

There was a reporter that noted the wording, phrases, etc. of the verdict was very unlike Judge Masipa. May it not have been the lady assessor?
Also has anyone read that this is Judge Masipa’s last case? That was written back in Feb or March”.

I don't know where Tess got her information from, but if Masipa does retire after this case we won't be able to blame it on this trial. More sleuthing needed.

Scroll down past all the photos. It’s about the 7th comment and is posted by Tess.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/pictures-from-behind-the-doorone-tragic-night/
Click to expand...
BIB - hang on a sec. Doesn't that prove bias? Surely the assessors should be neutral. If the verdict was mostly written up by someone who doesn't believe in sentencing, or rather, believes in 'holistic' sentencing, then they're not neutral at all. Bloody hell.
 
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