Post sentencing discussion

[Mr Fossil]

Just trying this idea on for size (Mr Fossil, where are ya...?)......

I don't believe the tripe about him bashing through the bedroom door in order to open it, and I think the fact that he felt the need to explain that suggests that damage happened that night. So, someone was trying to break open that door which means it was probably locked.

We have all assumed that the damage to the door was caused by OP. What if it was caused by Reeva trying to get out? Maybe he locked her in, rather than her locking him out?

This would explain why she didn't escape once things got really violent. Maybe she couldn't?

My take on the bedroom door damage has been:

1. The explanation of him running downstairs to open the front door and then attempting to barge the secondary bedroom door open on his way back to the bathroom is ridiculous.
2. For EvdM to hear the argument from 01:56 suggests that it takes place towards the front of OP's house, possibly downstairs. It may be that the front door is open (but not visibly so) at this stage because Reeva wants to leave.
3. Perhaps she runs back upstairs (to get her keys?) and OP chases after her. She locks the bedroom door and he barges it open.

Your scenario has possibilities, I need to think about it and the possible sequence of events that would lead to this happening and any implications.

 

[44ALLAN]

Yep, it is. Like the bit where he says he wakes and notices that the fans are still on in his EIC.

"It was extremely warm in my room. I sat up in bed. I noticed that the fans were still running and that the door was still open."

He's so eager to tell us that the fans were on that he inserts it at this point when it makes no sense, since it implies that Reeva should have switched them off!

I think this is a major point that a lot of people are overlooking and this is just my opinion
BIB..............I do not for one second think these are OP's words or explanations.
This was all done by his legal team to get him acquitted and then they coached him as to his responses to Nel in the courtroom.
"if it gets too confusing for you just start and cry Oscar I'll cover your back".

 

[Estelle]

Thanks Estelle. I had a couple of messages from Lisa re her blog and I took the opportunity to mention that it had been suggested I send it to the SA media and also Facebook. I told her I wasn't a member of Facebook. She said if I liked, she'd post it for me on Facebook, Justice4Reeva. I thought that was a wonderful idea so that's where it's going.

I acknowledged you on Facebook. I hope you don't mind.

 

[mrjitty]

Especially in terms of law reform - it makes no sense to allow the accused to hear the states witnesses before he gives his version

Surely all should given their versions without hearing each other

Indeed police witnesses give a statement before they hear any other witness.

 

[soozieqtips]

I really don't get how some people still say that OP never really deviated from his original explanation - which was that he thought there was an intruder, and he shot who he thought was an intruder. It was such a basic story, so basic you could use it as a plot line for a real story, and then fill it out as you went along, which is what he did. He had FIVE flipping days to add to his version, FIVE DAYS, and even then he couldn't get it right.

He couldn't get it right, because so much of it wasn't true, and when Nel caught him out on God knows how many occasions, that's when you saw OP having to add things that were never in his affidavit. He clearly hadn't foreseen exactly what Nel was going to ask him, so he had to add (tailor) as he went along. And of course, when Nel pointed out that some of these crucial (and NEW) details were never in his affidavit, what was OP's reaction? To blame his DT. How Masipa couldn't see through this weasel is something that still gives me a headache.

 

[44ALLAN]

.

I've given this some thought.

I'm confident that I could think that fast - if driven by immediate terror at the consequences of my actions.

Maybe it's self-preservation? As in Derman's example of an attacking polar bear giving me (and the bear) an adrenalin rush that focused everything in my mind like a laser beam.

More than knowing much about world politics, geography, and philosophy, etc., I think that OP is very, very practiced (years and years, in fact) at quickly and convincingly saving/covering his own a$$. In fact, I'd say he has an (honorary) doctorate in it.

My son had a friend (ugh) who was half a bubble off plumb but on a moment's notice she could recite every Justin Bieber lyric of every song JB ever sang and was ever going to sing (while applying mascara with her toes as she sped down the expressway on her way to work).

As an engineer myself that statement in bold really made me laugh thank you .
This site is more than just sleuthing that's for sure :clap:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My take on the bedroom door damage has been:

1. The explanation of him running downstairs to open the front door and then attempting to barge the secondary bedroom door open on his way back to the bathroom is ridiculous.
2. For EvdM to hear the argument from 01:56 suggests that it takes place towards the front of OP's house, possibly downstairs. It may be that the front door is open (but not visibly so) at this stage because Reeva wants to leave.
3. Perhaps she runs back upstairs (to get her keys?) and OP chases after her. She locks the bedroom door and he barges it open.

Your scenario has possibilities, I need to think about it and the possible sequence of events that would lead to this happening and any implications.

bbm= At this point I want to ask: with what weapon did he chase her? I can't imagine him without a dangerous subject in hands; there has to be a reason, why Reeva fled in panic (probably). Reeva had bruises on her body. We all are asked to accept, that there is no explanation for it. How can that be?

 

[Estelle]

One bit I spotted in his version when being cross examined by Nel was that he went on his knees when he was at the corner of the bathroom passage and the main bathroom itself. Nothing about this to Roux in his evidence in chief.

I have often thought that OP was on his prosthetics the whole time and knelt down when firing the shots so that he could later say he was on his stumps to give the impression that he was vulnerable.

 

[IPITY]

I said it at the time and I'll say it again...........................if Carice did actually hear Reeva screaming then she has to live with that for the rest of her life.
she lied and she should suffer for her lies forever................but....
If she didn't hear any screams then she must know by now the amount of people doubting her testimony and she should go to the media,when this is finally over,to clarify what she meant by saying "what happened to the lady?" IMO

I don't believe that when Carise said this that it was heard in the court even though we could hear her say it quite clearly through the recording equipment. I think there were other occasions when those in court did not hear what we could hear.

It did not make sense for this very important comment to simply be ignored.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

(Please forgive me for this lengthy post.)

A long time ago, someone here linked to an article that was so good that I continued following the author as the trial moved along. He's funny, irreverent, and though-provoking.

Given that we are in-between the trial and the appeal, and because someone else might also enjoy reading them, I put together a list with links to all of them, beginning with the most recent at the top.

**Warning** Beloved fellow sleuthers who hold the minority view. Be forewarned that the author holds the majority view and can, at times, be quite disparaging of those who don't.

Professor MA Simpson is known as Health24's CyberShrink.
He is a South African Psychiatrist who qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countries, having worked at London University in the United Kingdom; McMaster University in Canada; Temple University in Philadelphia, USA.; and the University of Natal, in South Africa. He has experience of State and private practice in each of these countries.

• The Pistorians – when love is blind
  CyberShrink explores why ordinary women (and sometimes even men) fall in love with people on trial or convicted of nasty crimes. 2014/10/24
  ​
  
• An open letter to Oscar
  CyberShrink writes an open letter to Oscar Pistorius, with advice on how to rise above his recent past and, once again, become a useful, productive member of society. 2014/10/22
  ​
  
• Oscar – the long-awaited verdict
  Oscar’s received a lenient sentence, and with good behaviour, could be out of jail and back in the mansion in less than a year. 2014/10/22
  ​
  
• Oscar – Roux's rants against the media
  According to CyberShrink, Barry Roux, like Oscar Pistorius, prefers to blame others for anything that goes wrong and maintains that the charge of premeditated murder has in itself damaged Oscar. 2014/10/20
  ​
  
• Who’s on trial, Oscar or SA's prisons?
  The general state of South Africa’s prisons may be deplorable, but for the purpose of this phase of the trial, the fact is completely irrelevant. 2014/10/17
  ​
  
• Is Oscar really a ‘broken man’?
  Cybershrink is nauseated by the defence's insistence that Oscar is a 'broken man'. 2014/10/16
  ​
  
• Is Oscar Pistorius really writing a book?
  Oscar Pistorius is writing a book detailing his side of the murder of Reeva Steenkamp. Cybershrink deciphers what it all means. 2014/09/16
  ​
  
• Oscar Pistorius and his Tinker Bell defence
  Clap hands if you believe in fairies! A lot of scientific hogwash presented during the Oscar Pistorius trial. 2014/08/12
  ​
  
• Nel nails Oscar as a deceitful witness
  Health24's CyberShrink, columnist Professor Michael Simpson comments on the first day of closing arguments in the Oscar Pistorius trail. 2014/08/12
  ​
  
• If the Oscar trial were a movie ...
  What was Oscar doing in a nightclub, cringes at his Tweets, and proposes a cast for Oscar: The Movie. 2014/08/07
  ​
  
• Who's nuts: Oscar or his defence?
  Oscar Pistorius' defence has dug a nice hole for themselves with Dr Vorster's very precise evidence. 2014/07/16
  ​
  
• Back to school at the Oscar trial
  It's clear Oscar did not suffer from generalised anxiety disorder, and we still don't know if he screams like a woman. 2014/07/16
  ​
  
• All said and done, we still don't know WHY Oscar shot Reeva
  The evidence is at an end but the case is not over yet. The red herrings and weak witness testimony and comes to the conclusion that we still don't know why Oscar killed Reeva. And then there's the mediocre social media analysis by Channel 199 ... 2014/07/16
  ​
  
• Cherry-picking reports and that reconstructed video
  Derman dribbles, Roux cherry-picks from the strangely unavailable report and a leaked re-construction video of what happened on that night and that strongly contradicts the psychologists' report. 2014/07/16
  ​
  
• The Oscar trial witnesses: awful, pompous and condescending
  Health24's CyberShrink, yawns at the ridiculous, boring testimony at the Oscar Pistorius trial and, as a disabled person himself, strongly objects to the defence's attempt to create excuses for Oscar. 2014/07/03
  ​
  
• Oscar's defence continues to implode
  Broken promises, pointless witnesses and delaying tactics: poor performance by Oscar's defence team. 2014/07/02
  ​
  
• Oscar returns – with a glut of witnesses
  Oscar's first day back in court started off with perfunctory details of his psychological report, and some very unhelpful witnesses. 2014/07/02
  ​
  
• Oscar’s ‘part-time’ assessment
  Oscar Pistorius will have to report to the medical superintendent of the psychiatric facility of Weskoppies Hospital in Pretoria every weekday from 9am until 4pm.*2014/05/21
  ​
  
• Oscar Trial: The shrink has shrunk
  The latest witness to be called in Oscar Pistorius's defence was forensic psychiatrist Merryl Vorster. Cybershrink dissects her evidence. 2014/05/21
  ​
  
• The failure of forensics, and amateur psychobabble*
  How Oscar's defence team kept on shooting themselves in the foot and points out a number of inaccuracies in the media. 2014/05/13
  ​
  
• We’ve been punked. The Oscar trial gets truly ridiculous.
  The defence has continued to be bewildering, but on Thursday it became really foolish, to the point that I expected Ashton Kutcher to leap out and giggle at us. 2014/05/09
  ​
  
• The adoration of Oscar
  The phenomenon of the 'Pistorians', a small and fascinatingly odd bunch of fanatics passionately convinced of Oscar's innocence.* 2014/05/09
  ​
  
• Melodramatics, bias, and the Mystery of the Dog in the Night.
  Health24's CyberShrink, Prof Michael Simpson bemoans the lengthy (and costly) break in court proceedings, followed by distinctly lack-lustre witnesses. 2014/05/08
  ​
  
• Yawn, yawn, snooze: Oscar’s Defense potters around
  Health24's CyberShrink Prof Simpson asks "What is Oscar's defence up to? "And where's the beef"? 2014/05/08
  ​
  
• Oscar trial: Geology rocks?
  CyberShrink comments on the annihilation of the geologist in the Oscar Pistorius trial. 2014/04/24
  ​
  
• Do you hope Oscar is innocent, or do you need him to be innocent?
  CyberShrink Professor Michael Simpson 'unpacks' the many unanswered questions and irritations surrounding the Oscar Pistorius trial. 2014/04/23
  ​
  
• Oscar: The dog ate my homework
  So how is Oscar faring under cross-examination? Not very well, says CyberShrink. Not very well at all. 2014/04/15
  ​
  
• Has Oscar lost the plot?
  Is Oscar Pistorius emotionally incontinent, or has he lost the plot. 2014/04/11
  ​
  
• Oscar trial: police make a mess
  It’d be funny if it wasn’t all such a tragedy. Evidence continued to emerge of a typical police omni-shambles in the Oscar trial. 2014/03/31
  ​
  
• The Oscar Pistorius trial is super confusing
  Cybershrink wonders why full video footage of all witnesses cannot be allowed – from the neck down. Or why their identity can't be protected by re-enacting the proceedings with Lego figures. 2014/03/31
  ​
  
• The absurdities of the Oscar trial
  Cybershrink worries about a perversion of medical ethics and also about legal absurdities in the Oscar trial. 2014/03/11
  ​
  
• Oscar trial: who stole the show?
  Who stole the show in court this week? The witnesses, Oscar Pistorius, or Barry Roux? CyberShrink weighs in. 2014/03/07
  ​
  
• Psychiatrist: Why Oscar deserves to be on TV
  Should celebrities be able to choose to switch off the media machine when it doesn't suit them? CyberShrink thinks not. 2014/03/03
  ​
  
• Oscar: why the sick jokes?
  Why do people make sick jokes about other people's tragedies? CyberShrink comments. 2013/02/24

Colonel, you're a true gem! THANK YOU so much for putting this together. I've read a couple of his great OP articles and now have them all in handy list to read the rest!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<Snipped by me>

Delilah, that was a perfect synopsis! If there were a collection of Websleuth's greatest hits on the Pistorius forum, this would have to be included.

I'm now allowed to say "thank you", I HAVE read one of the greatest hits on the forum! That would have been something great for Bateman's book!

 

[soozieqtips]

On OP's version/versions - he actually didn't have his own exclusive version/versions, as he told Nel he had used what other people had heard to reconstruct his version/versions! So his entire defence was built on some of what he remembered (tailored) and the rest on the witness statements he read. That's just bizarre.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, that is possible; in fact I believe someone in the Police investigation team in the initial stages (most likely Botha IMO) was compromised. But I was not assuming this while debating with you over the issue of removing Reeva's handbag.

I always and again think of the Psychologist, colleague of Micki P. and therefore a "family friend". Maybe, he had a 4-eyes-conversation with poor officer Botha? Don't prevent me from this presumption! Maybe, later there was a consultation at the Department of Sport and Recreation?

 

[44ALLAN]

I don't believe that when Carise said this that it was heard in the court even though we could hear her say it quite clearly through the recording equipment. I think there were other occasions when those in court did not hear what we could hear.

It did not make sense for this very important comment to simply be ignored.

Yes I agree and I've commented on this before earlier in the trial and like you I cannot understand how this 'crucial' piece of evidence/voluntary statement was missed.
Nel is very sharp and would have heard this during the XE.
If he didn't he then has 'websleuth' forum to tell him 1st as he follows this site religiously /followed by his team in court /followed by the newspapers/followed by every legal beagle friend/colleague in the world.
He would have,nay.must have been informed of what she uttered by someone of that there is absolutely no doubt. IMO

C'mon Gerry................why the XSZA did you not question her about 'the lady' ?.

I know several people on here have been in contact with the Prosecution with their ideas/information.
Has anyone yet sent this question and got a response?

 

[Marfa Lights]

I have often thought that OP was on his prosthetics the whole time and knelt down when firing the shots so that he could later say he was on his stumps to give the impression that he was vulnerable.

I also think he was on his prosthetics the whole time. I am not that familiar with shooting techniques but have wondered if it is common to drop to your knees as a firing position??

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Oscar Pistorius
Sports Management

Südafrika
Sport

Aktuell
Selbständig

I found on LinkedIn this information. His new job?

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks you for this link From Germany:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...oman-he-killed

Oscar Pistorius is not guilty of murdering Reeva Steenkamp, the woman he killed
by Sarah Ditum
The South African athlete has been found guilty of culpable homicide, not murder, following the death of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. In a world where men kill women and not the other way around, that means justice must bend to the male version of events... Oscar Pistorius is not guilty of murder. He shot Reeva Steenkamp four times, through a locked bathroom door, with bullets designed to expand and tear and demolish human flesh; but the court in Pretoria found that his crime was culpable homicide (equivalent to manslaughter in English and Welsh law), not murder...
Of course, Pistorius was on trial, not Steenkamp, so the benefit of reasonable doubt must go in his favour; but in a world where men kill women and not the other way around, that means justice must bend to the male version. South Africa is a frightening place to be female...

 

[JudgeJudi]

A phrase OP uses that I find suspect is when he prefaces his actions by saying "I would have ..."

I agree with this completely. In a courtroom environment you would never say "I would have". You either did or did not.

 

[Fuskier]

(Please forgive me for this lengthy post.)

A long time ago, someone here linked to an article that was so good that I continued following the author as the trial moved along. He's funny, irreverent, and though-provoking.

Given that we are in-between the trial and the appeal, and because someone else might also enjoy reading them, I put together a list with links to all of them, beginning with the most recent at the top.

**Warning** Beloved fellow sleuthers who hold the minority view. Be forewarned that the author holds the majority view and can, at times, be quite disparaging of those who don't.

Professor MA Simpson is known as Health24's CyberShrink.
He is a South African Psychiatrist who qualified in medicine and in psychiatry in Britain. He has been a senior academic, researcher, and Professor in several countries, having worked at London University in the United Kingdom; McMaster University in Canada; Temple University in Philadelphia, USA.; and the University of Natal, in South Africa. He has experience of State and private practice in each of these countries.

<respectfully snipped>

Thank you ColonelMustard. I appreciate his well articulated, humorous, but considered analytic lens as well.

 

[delilah]

I also think he was on his prosthetics the whole time. I am not that familiar with shooting techniques but have wondered if it is common to drop to your knees as a firing position??

Not sure about that. He's taller on his stumps than on his knees. It would mean Mangena got his angles wrong, and I don't think anyone thinks Mangena got anything wrong.

It would also call into question Batman's evidence about a bat strike on the toilet door being consistent with OP being on his stumps.

On the kneeling firing position (commonly one knee on the ground): I'm no expert but I think that would generally be adopted either for greater accuracy (better balance) or when taking cover, neither of which applied in this case.