Millard Properties: Locations and Ownership

[Alethea Dice]

,
BBM - I think you got that part right. MS was just a wanna be, nothing more and not a murderer. Just a wanna be cool dude with a petty rap sheet, someone who was liked by his buddies, chilling and smoking dope in someone's basement, bragging and laughing about his petty crimes. MOO.

<rsbm>

Not a murderer? I wonder why LE charged him with two first degree murders then. I sure hope they have some evidence to back that up if we're spending this much on court costs.

JMO

 

[cansleuther]

It is realistic to assume MS may have been set up by DM. He did it in such ways that if LE ruled these cases murders, MS would take the fall. MS was a petty criminal who was dumb enough to get caught doing petty crimes. I am apt to believe DM was a leader type and MS seems to fit into the follower mould. Do I think MS followed DM? Very likely. DM had money, he had charm, he had the hangar, toys, women, maybe more intelligence than MS, the flop house. MS probably admired DM and was enthralled he found himself a good buddy who was uppity up compared to himself. DM likely used MS to get him drugs, guns, anything he knew was against the law, MS would be his fall guy.

...

DM has framed MS in such a way for LB's and TB's murders, LE believe he was involved also. Was MS under the impression DM was interested in buying a Dodge truck and he was just along for the rides? Maybe MS did hop into DM's Yukon at the end of TB's laneway and went his own way having plans to meet up later. Did MS even know LB was murdered or just missing until he was charged? I can certainly see MS being duped. TWT.

How does TB's body being found on DM's farm and TB's truck found in DM's mothers driveway frame MS?

How does LB's last calls being made to DM frame MS?

Just because we aren't privy to the evidence leading to MS's charges, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Why is it so imperative that only one of the accused is actually guilty?

 

[Juballee]

It is realistic to assume MS may have been set up by DM. He did it in such ways that if LE ruled these cases murders, MS would take the fall. MS was a petty criminal who was dumb enough to get caught doing petty crimes. I am apt to believe DM was a leader type and MS seems to fit into the follower mould. Do I think MS followed DM? Very likely. DM had money, he had charm, he had the hangar, toys, women, maybe more intelligence than MS, the flop house. MS probably admired DM and was enthralled he found himself a good buddy who was uppity up compared to himself. DM likely used MS to get him drugs, guns, anything he knew was against the law, MS would be his fall guy.

Who has been charged with WM's death? DM. Why hasn't MS been charged with WM's murder? Because he wasn't involved, that's why. I think it's highly plausible DM killed him father setting it up to look like a suicide and had his set up failed and it took on the appearance of murder, I bet DM would have tried to throw MS under the bus. Coincidentally MS was living in WM's basement at the time of his murder, but then left and returned to his mother's house. Did he feel something was off about DM and had his suspicions? How did DM acquire the gun? Through MS?

DM has framed MS in such a way for LB's and TB's murders, LE believe he was involved also. Was MS under the impression DM was interested in buying a Dodge truck and he was just along for the rides? Maybe MS did hop into DM's Yukon at the end of TB's laneway and went his own way having plans to meet up later. Did MS even know LB was murdered or just missing until he was charged? I can certainly see MS being duped. TWT.

DM having no past criminal record means diddly squat. We all know cases where murderers had no past criminal record prior to their murder convictions. E.i., RW, MR, PB, to name a few Canadian cases. So that point is moot. ALL MOO.

This is the thread for Millard Properties, perhaps if this is what some members really believe, we should start a new thread to discuss theories about MS being an innocent dupe.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm curious to know where you got enough personal information about MS to analyse his character like this - that he was just a dumb follower that would be enthralled to have a friend like DM.

IMO, your scenario is no more realistic than the other way around. But we're all entitled to our own opinions.

JMO

IMHO, Swedie's is more realistic.
# 1- MS couldn't even do graffiti without getting busted, DM seemed to be surrounded by all sorts of illicit stuff and never got his angel wings clipped.
#2 LB called DM- not MS and there's no mention of MS by SL. DM lied to SL about speaking with LB. DM had a relationship with LB and there's nothing indicating that MS knew LB.
#3 MS has not been charged with the death of WM- even though he was living at the house.
#4 MS was not alone with TB- LE has indicated MS was driving the Yukon. DM was alone with TB. and LE have stated that TB's truck was spotted in Brantford- not TB's truck and the Yukon.
#5 MWJ is up on charges for selling DM a gun to kill WM.
#6 MS did not own the farm, the incinerator or the hangar. DM did.

IMHO, there's a common denominator here and it's not MS. Back to the beginning- without a body in the LB case, I wonder how MS is tied to this crime. MOO

 

[Kamille]

What makes you think he was supplying a hanger full of party goers with drugs? Just the discussions on here or do you have a link? The parties that were alleged to have been "drug fuelled" were at the house and there was no mention that DM bought the drugs. People do quite often bring their own. I still wonder how the police never showed up at such wild parties.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/dellen-millard-accused-in-tim-bosma-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

I don't see anything about underage ladies at the parties either. Where does that information come from?

The difference between a buyer and a seller is more than social standing IMO. A buyer buys them to use, often whether they can afford them or not. A seller sells them as an easy way to make money. Kind of like selling underage students cigarettes at school.

What kind of gun did DM buy? Did it fit in the holster he bought? Maybe we'll find out at that trial if it makes it to MSM. I understand those charges only apply to MWJ.

Who was the motorcycle trailer registered to? I'm sure LE know, but again, we haven't seen anyone charged for that yet. I didn't notice that DM had a huge interest in motorcycles. His interest seemed to be more in cars and jeeps.

JMO

This article mentions one rave party (I read on an aviation forum that there was rumours of several but that's not MSM and it's just a rumour so I stand corrected)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

We've seen the pics of the "birthday party" with the band on the friend's facebook. I admit I assumed that most of his "large" drug fueled parties would have been at the hangar rather than the house but according to the article it was the house (where was WM during these?)

I thought he was dating CN after breaking up with the fiancé. When and how did he meet her and how old was she at the time? She may have been underage and there may have been others at the parties is all I'm saying. I do not know for sure. DM is 8 years older than her.

MS as a seller made no substantial money obviously (owned nothing and couch surfed at DM's when he wasn't living with his mother) but it did probably allow him to partake in his habit. Which is the case for a lot of users who sell and why they do it. Either way, buying,selling and possession are illegal. Especially the cocaine and MDMA that were supposedly at these parties.

No idea what kind of gun. I believe it was a handgun. I believe the holster was for a handgun. Did it fit? No idea. Does that make it not illegal?

I posted in another thread my thoughts about that motorcycle and trailer and why no one has or like.y will be charged with that theft. But if they had been found in his hanger the day after they were stolen, before any murders were being investigated, that might have been a different story.

MOO

 

[Juballee]

IMHO, Swedie's is more realistic.
# 1- MS couldn't even do graffiti without getting busted, DM seemed to be surrounded by all sorts of illicit stuff and never got his angel wings clipped.
#2 LB called DM- not MS and there's no mention of MS by SL. DM lied to SL about speaking with LB. DM had a relationship with LB and there's nothing indicating that MS knew LB.
#3 MS has not been charged with the death of WM- even though he was living at the house.
#4 MS was not alone with TB- LE has indicated MS was driving the Yukon. DM was alone with TB. and LE have stated that TB's truck was spotted in Brantford- not TB's truck and the Yukon.
#5 MWJ is up on charges for selling DM a gun to kill WM and TB.
#6 MS did not own the farm, the incinerator or the hangar. DM did.

IMHO, there's a common denominator here and it's not MS. Back to the beginning- without a body in the LB case, I wonder how MS is tied to this crime. MOO

#1. Please name the 'all sorts of illicit stuff' and quote the sources.
2. I think the charge of MS for the murder against LB would be an indication that they at least met once.
4. When did LE indicate that MS was driving the Yukon and that DM was alone with TB, I must have missed that, please provide a link, thanks in advance.

 

[Juballee]

This article mentions one rave party (I read on an aviation forum that there was rumours of several but that's not MSM and it's just a rumour so I stand corrected)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

We've seen the pics of the "birthday party" with the band on the friend's facebook. I admit I assumed that most of his "large" drug fueled parties would have been at the hangar rather than the house but according to the article it was the house (where was WM during these?)

I thought he was dating CN after breaking up with the fiancé. When and how did he meet her and how old was she at the time? She may have been underage and there may have been others at the parties is all I'm saying. I do not know for sure. DM is 8 years older than her.

MS as a seller made no substantial money obviously (owned nothing and couch surfed at DM's when he wasn't living with his mother) but it did probably allow him to partake in his habit. Which is the case for a lot of users who sell and why they do it. Either way, buying,selling and possession are illegal. Especially the cocaine and MDMA that were supposedly at these parties.

No idea what kind of gun. I believe it was a handgun. I believe the holster was for a handgun. Did it fit? No idea. Does that make it not illegal?

I posted in another thread my thoughts about that motorcycle and trailer and why no one has or like.y will be charged with that theft. But if they had been found in his hanger the day after they were stolen, before any murders were being investigated, that might have been a different story.

MOO

I believe that the 'rave' that you are talking about was the birthday party that you are also talking about, that would still just make it one party, and I believe that it was not only chaperoned but that WM hired security as well, so I doubt that it was very drug fuelled, that sounds like an exaggeration to me. If you have MSM links stating that he supplied drugs to all those people at the alleged drug fuelled parties, please provide them.


And as far as I know, there are no legal age restrictions on attending private parties on private property. The idea that DM was illegally hanging out with underage girls was completely fabricated in unsubstantiated posts here only, from what I can tell, and I was under the impression that it is against the TOS to start rumours without substantiating them. If you have MSM links to verify this and it is not a rumour, my apologies, and please provide the links, thanks.

Holsters are not illegal.

 

[Kamille]

<rsbm>

Not a murderer? I wonder why LE charged him with two first degree murders then. I sure hope they have some evidence to back that up if we're spending this much on court costs.

JMO

And I assume you feel the same about DM's 3 murder charges?

 

[swedie]

What makes you think he was supplying a hanger full of party goers with drugs? Just the discussions on here or do you have a link? The parties that were alleged to have been "drug fuelled" were at the house and there was no mention that DM bought the drugs. People do quite often bring their own. I still wonder how the police never showed up at such wild parties.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/dellen-millard-accused-in-tim-bosma-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

I don't see anything about underage ladies at the parties either. Where does that information come from?

The difference between a buyer and a seller is more than social standing IMO. A buyer buys them to use, often whether they can afford them or not. A seller sells them as an easy way to make money. Kind of like selling underage students cigarettes at school.

What kind of gun did DM buy? Did it fit in the holster he bought? Maybe we'll find out at that trial if it makes it to MSM. I understand those charges only apply to MWJ.

And then there are those who use and sell. HTH and MOO.

Who was the motorcycle trailer registered to? I'm sure LE know, but again, we haven't seen anyone charged for that yet. I didn't notice that DM had a huge interest in motorcycles. His interest seemed to be more in cars and jeeps.

JMO

BBM - It will be interesting to find out who the trailer was registered to. Won't be surprised if it was registered to MA. :lol: Some criminals are not very smart. Wonder how many guns DM had illegally purchased? Wonder why he needed a holster? :thinking: MOO.

In Marty's case, the bike was in dozens of pieces. Serial numbers had been shaved away and the trailer had already been registered as a homemade trailer within hours after the theft.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/30/stolen-harley-found-on-property-of-accused-tim-bosma-killer

 

[swedie]

Until I see chop shop charges, I will have to disagree about it's existence, but that's just my opinion. I have yet to hear what evidence there is against DM in the other two murders still, so I am going to reserve my judgment on those as well.


No one ever said that DM was oblivious to his father's murder, and that doesn't mean that he knew that LB and WM were murdered, or that he knew who had done it.


Maybe my version of reality is different that other people's but I will stick to my opinion that someone who was lacking in something is more likely to steal it than someone who has dozens of them, and that someone who has a record is more likely to commit a crime than someone who doesn't, and that to me is the more realistic.

I personally feel that the hype surrounding DM, which began with people's shock when he was arrested because he doesn't fit the typical profile of a **** who would kill for a car, may get the better of common sense at times. It's easy to lash out at the face we see most often, the name we always hear associated with a crime that disgusts and angers us all, but I still want to hear the actual evidence before I start sharpening my pitchfork, personally. And I thought that made me a realist, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what to call MS's supporters.

BBM - Yes I would say three murder charges make a starter chop shop look pale in comparison. I don't think the accused are sweating about any chop shop right now. MOO.

 

[Kamille]

I believe that the 'rave' that you are talking about was the birthday party that you are also talking about, that would still just make it one party, and I believe that it was not only chaperoned but that WM hired security as well, so I doubt that it was very drug fuelled, that sounds like an exaggeration to me. If you have MSM links stating that he supplied drugs to all those people at the alleged drug fuelled parties, please provide them.


And as far as I know, there are no legal age restrictions on attending private parties on private property. The idea that DM was illegally hanging out with underage girls was completely fabricated in unsubstantiated posts here only, from what I can tell, and I was under the impression that it is against the TOS to start rumours without substantiating them. If you have MSM links to verify this and it is not a rumour, my apologies, and please provide the links, thanks.

Holsters are not illegal.

Do you have links stating that the rave was chaperoned? That it was also the birthday party? That security was provided?

I didn't suggest he supplied drugs at the parties. Another poster suggested that may have been his connection to MS.

Allowing people to bring and do drugs in your home is illegal, even more so if you're supplying them. Serving drugs and/or alcohol to minors in your home is illegal. Allowing guests to drive home drunk after drinking in your home is illegal. You are responsible for what goes on in your own home.

Do we know when he first met CN and where?

Handguns are illegal. I was proving that he bought a handgun. I was asked if the gun fit the holster. I have no idea but I assume it was intended to. But that doesn't make the gun any less illegal if it didn't. He likely did not buy the holster for his Xbox controller. Or maybe he did. But he also bought a handgun. And that is illegal.

MOO

 

[swedie]

How does TB's body being found on DM's farm and TB's truck found in DM's mothers driveway frame MS?

How does LB's last calls being made to DM frame MS?

Just because we aren't privy to the evidence leading to MS's charges, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Why is it so imperative that only one of the accused is actually guilty?

Dumb criminal? Didn't have time to finish covering his tracks before he was arrested? :thinking:

We don't know what that last message was do we? Maybe DM told LB to meet MS somewhere so he could give her drugs.

I didn't say it was so imperative, just playing armchair detective about possibilities like everyone else here. HTH. JMO.

 

[swedie]

Well, many think he was providing drugs for his parties and that's what LB was apparently asking for. Perhaps MS is who DM bought them from. And perhaps MWJ is who MS got them from, since he was a frequent visitor to MS's home. Not a big stretch IMO.

BBM - Do you have a link, I don't recall MWJ being a frequent visitor to MS's house. TIA.

 

[swedie]

Or maybe he need a ride to get to his day job.

Did he have a job? Link please and TIA.

 

[Juballee]

I didn't suggest he supplied drugs at the parties. Another poster suggested that may have been his connection to MS.

RSBM

Well buying a couple of joints for yourself is a little different than supplying an entire hanger full of party goers with lord knows what type of drugs. Pretty sure if one of those parties had been raided, DM would have a criminal record. Looks like some of the ladies at those parties may have been underage as well.

RSBM again.

Again, if you have MSM links showing that he was in fact supplying drugs to under aged girls, or anyone else for that matter, please provide them, otherwise please refrain from starting rumours, we have enough to sort through here without muddying the waters needlessly, in my opinion.

 

[MsSherlock]

#1. Please name the 'all sorts of illicit stuff' and quote the sources.
2. I think the charge of MS for the murder against LB would be an indication that they at least met once.
4. When did LE indicate that MS was driving the Yukon and that DM was alone with TB, I must have missed that, please provide a link, thanks in advance.

No problem!

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out. I would consider this to be illicit activity. MOO

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741



Kavanagh now says police are not sure whether Smich, who is said to have been in the back seat of the truck while Millard was driving, exited that vehicle after leaving Bosma&#8217;s home and got into the driver&#8217;s seat of the Yukon.

&#8220;That is possible right now, yes, but I&#8217;m not going to commit either way,&#8221; Kavanagh said. If DM was driving and MS got out, then DM would have been alone with TB. MOO

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rd_suspect_exists_lead_investigator_says.html

 

[swedie]

I believe that the 'rave' that you are talking about was the birthday party that you are also talking about, that would still just make it one party, and I believe that it was not only chaperoned but that WM hired security as well, so I doubt that it was very drug fuelled, that sounds like an exaggeration to me. If you have MSM links stating that he supplied drugs to all those people at the alleged drug fuelled parties, please provide them.


And as far as I know, there are no legal age restrictions on attending private parties on private property. The idea that DM was illegally hanging out with underage girls was completely fabricated in unsubstantiated posts here only, from what I can tell, and I was under the impression that it is against the TOS to start rumours without substantiating them. If you have MSM links to verify this and it is not a rumour, my apologies, and please provide the links, thanks.

Holsters are not illegal.

Didn't she/he say MOO?

Wonder who those chaperones where at these parties? Didn't DM know a few people in LE? Guess if it got out to LE that other LE officers were chaperoning, LE would have felt confident no illegal activities were going on within the hangar and everything was under control. MOO.

 

[swedie]

Do you have links stating that the rave was chaperoned? That it was also the birthday party? That security was provided?

I didn't suggest he supplied drugs at the parties. Another poster suggested that may have been his connection to MS.

Allowing people to bring and do drugs in your home is illegal, even more so if you're supplying them. Serving drugs and/or alcohol to minors in your home is illegal. Allowing guests to drive home drunk after drinking in your home is illegal. You are responsible for what goes on in your own home.

Do we know when he first met CN and where?

Handguns are illegal. I was proving that he bought a handgun. I was asked if the gun fit the holster. I have no idea but I assume it was intended to. But that doesn't make the gun any less illegal if it didn't. He likely did not buy the holster for his Xbox controller. Or maybe he did. But he also bought a handgun. And that is illegal.

MOO

:silly::lol:

 

[Juballee]

No problem!

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out. I would consider this to be illicit activity. MOO

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741



Kavanagh now says police are not sure whether Smich, who is said to have been in the back seat of the truck while Millard was driving, exited that vehicle after leaving Bosma&#8217;s home and got into the driver&#8217;s seat of the Yukon.

&#8220;That is possible right now, yes, but I&#8217;m not going to commit either way,&#8221; Kavanagh said. If DM was driving and MS got out, then DM would have been alone with TB. MOO

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...rd_suspect_exists_lead_investigator_says.html

Sorry, but in my opinion, but an unnamed source saying he may have hosted parties where drugs were present does not say that he provided the drugs, or whether or not he condoned their use in his home, nor does it count in my mind as 'all sorts of illicit stuff'. Maybe one possible illegal 'stuff' at best.

And an old quote saying that LE are unsure of who was driving the Yukon is not LE indicating it was definitively MS driving it and that DM's was alone with TB, those assertions above were false and misleading in my opinion. The quote specifically says that LE are not sure, I think we need more concrete proof before we can ascertain who was driving the Yukon with any certainty, in my opinion.

 

[Kamille]

Well, many think he was providing drugs for his parties and that's what LB was apparently asking for. Perhaps MS is who DM bought them from. And perhaps MWJ is who MS got them from, since he was a frequent visitor to MS's home. Not a big stretch IMO.

RSBM



RSBM again.

Again, if you have MSM links showing that he was in fact supplying drugs to under aged girls, or anyone else for that matter, please provide them, otherwise please refrain from starting rumours, we have enough to sort through here without muddying the waters needlessly, in my opinion.

The suggestion was not mine. We were discussing the possibility and I do not believe anyone has suggested it as fact. It is opinion and speculation.

I'm still curious as to why you believe that the rave that was mentioned in MSM is the same event as a birthday party that was seen in pics on a friends FB? Is there a link because I would never consider a chaperoned with security guards birthday party, a rave.

And it was a friend of DM in MSM who said he had been to a couple dozen parties at DM's house in which there was cocaine and MDMA. That link is also up thread. I admitted that I assumed these parties were also at the hanger as I didn't think WM would tolerate drug fueled parties in his home but apparently not and I conceded that. The drug fueled parties were at the house according to a party goer.

Again I questioned whether these parties took place at such a time as when CN was underage and whether she was there and whether there were other underage people there as well. For all I know DM never knew CN until she was 19. I was just asking. Do you know the answer to that? Has it been determined here?

This whole discussion was based on the fact that because DM did not have a prior criminal record upon his arrest, that he was not involved in any prior criminal activity. We we speculating on possible examples of criminal activity that he was just never charged with.