ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[toevlugsoord]

I imagine this has been posted:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/family-friend-at-campsite-deorr-kunz-just-disappeared/

That is the most BIZARRE interview. He looks half-asleep or drunk or something. At least ask if you can go put a shirt on before the interview starts or something, right? Interesting he didn't want to ask a question before asking if the grandpa had been interviewd. I wasn't thinking something fishy was going on before but I do now.

 

[toevlugsoord]

They went from being "solid," to "not suspects at this time," and now they are "persons of inferest."
That shift in language illustrates a remarkably different tone from the start. I realize that poi does not equal suspect, but we all know that it has negative connotations and demonstrates a sense of doubt. He didn't use that phrase accidentally. If he had no doubt about the circumstances and statements regarding DeOrr's disappearance, he would have referred to them as witnesses.

I'm just completely at a loss about what happened if indeed the parents/people there are persons of interest. Did they ever have him there or is this all an elaborate lie and he died back at home? Or did they concoct this story after neglecting him at the campsite? But then where is he? This is just all so bizarre.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I've no feelings either way whether this man has anything to do with Deorr's disappearance, but I just watched the interview and you can hear the reporter apologising for waking him up.

It's pretty much the response you'd get from me first thing in the morning too - I'd need to at least have a wee and a cuppa before you'd get much more sense out of me.

 

[rkf]

I've no feelings either way whether this man has anything to do with Deorr's disappearance, but I just watched the interview and you can hear the reporter apologising for waking him up.

It's pretty much the response you'd get from me first thing in the morning too - I'd need to at least have a wee and a cuppa before you'd get much more sense out of me.

Would you even answer the door? If I wasn't ready to have a conversation with a reporter, I would have let him keep knocking. I would not come to the door naked, stoned out of my gourd or semi-comatose. I know people keep saying they act like that when they wake up, but really? I may not be Miss Mary Sunshine, but unless I took 2 ambien the night before and didn't get all 8 hours, I would be able to open my eyes and form words. And if I couldn't, I would not open the door. There is something seriously wrong with that dude. If he acted like that on the camping trip, I would hold my kid even closer than usual, and not because I thought a bear might grab him... I can't figure out IR's and ggp's friendship.

 

[Dreaminofthetropics]

It doesn't make sense to me at all. When we go camping the idea is to rough it, so if you forget something you just do without it. If you are set out to spend the weekend in the woods, why would you drive into town unless it was really critical? No need to stop and meet locals or explore the surrounding area, if your plan is to spend a few days in an isolated place. Besides, would you want to drive 40 minutes on an unpaved road after you just got done making that trip to get to your planned destination?

If we need something we stop on the way in. Once in the campsite we rarely ever get in the car and drive anywhere.

I know when I go camping down in the keys my car is generally too packed with supplies to fit anything else beside me my bf and kids. Every time I go I go to my spot set up tents etc and then we go get groceries and charcoal and anything else we forgot. In the keys camping at a state park it's about forty five minutes to the closest store. We still don't know if they were using tents or a camper right? However even when I've taken my pop-up I've still ran into aforementioned situation!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Would you even answer the door? If I wasn't ready to have a conversation with a reporter, I would have let him keep knocking. I would not come to the door naked, stoned out of my gourd or semi-comatose. I know people keep saying they act like that when they wake up, but really? I may not be Miss Mary Sunshine, but unless I took 2 ambien the night before and didn't get all 8 hours, I would be able to open my eyes and form words. And if I couldn't, I would not open the door. There is something seriously wrong with that dude. If he acted like that on the camping trip, I would hold my kid even closer than usual, and not because I thought a bear might grab him... I can't figure out IR's and ggp's friendship.

No you're right, I wouldn't even answer the door! If I wanted to talk to the person I'd shout to come back in 20 minutes especially if I knew it was a news channel and I'd be on telly.

But I AM that sleepy if woken suddenly from a deep sleep, it definitely takes a good couple of minutes to come round enough to have a proper conversation.

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't have a problem with it and I don't think you're unusual. I just can't help myself trying to figure out why they went. No judgment against the parents for going, and I believe what they said about going.

Its nice to not be alone here. I am just stuck on that road trip. Hubby and I
Traveled with five children...four of them girls and I don't remember ever going to a store. We usually visited State parks and would stay in the lodge rooms. I have never camped. Hubby did all the driving and upon arriving nobody ever wanted to get in that car again.

I keep thinking DeOrr probably slept the two and one half hours driving to camp. He would be fussy if he had to get back on the truck and drive that bumpy road another almost two hours.

I always think of campers as those able to adjust to live in the wild and do without necessaries. Byw I am the one saying "are we there yet".

If the store was 15 minutes away on a beautiful highway then maybe. But two hours juggling around...no way.

 

[wondering25]

We are 69 and 70 and had our 7-yr old grandson and our chihuahua with us. We drove just over 300 miles and had just returned from a 1000 mile round trip just three days before. The roads to get to the store were very curvy indeed but not bumpy. Yes, I would have made the trip even on a bumpy road. There's nothing worse than getting all settled in and THEN have to leave, IMO. Not everyone carries matches and many vehicles these days don't have cigarette lighters. Other things they might have needed were charcoal, batteries for flashlights, propane and produce.

So, what time did they get there and realize they needed things..1pm? then drove for 40 mins got the things then drove back? that would make it 220 pm. Or did they arrive in the morning then get in the car and go to the store at some other time. To get there and turn around and go back seems nutty. OR DID THEY ARRIVE THE NIGHT BEFORE? Thus 6 pm sighting in store? Was JM taking both grandpa and IR there and being paid? Perhaps grandpa and IR are in adult day care or something? I dont see the bond between a sick elderly man and IR unless they both are in some kind of adult day care setting.. jmo

 

[persimmon]

Would you even answer the door? If I wasn't ready to have a conversation with a reporter, I would have let him keep knocking. I would not come to the door naked, stoned out of my gourd or semi-comatose. I know people keep saying they act like that when they wake up, but really? I may not be Miss Mary Sunshine, but unless I took 2 ambien the night before and didn't get all 8 hours, I would be able to open my eyes and form words. And if I couldn't, I would not open the door. There is something seriously wrong with that dude. If he acted like that on the camping trip, I would hold my kid even closer than usual, and not because I thought a bear might grab him... I can't figure out IR's and ggp's friendship.

I cannot imagine ever being in this position. First, we have the concealed identity issue, then there's the fact that this much younger man was a part of a twosome responsible for a two year old's safety for what we are told was a 10 minute time frame. Too strange and unaffected by this tragedy. I would feel such guilt if I were him, I'd be doing anything I could to help....but he doesn't even seem aware of the situation or have the wherewithall to answer direct, simple questions that might give the general public an idea of how they could possibly assist.
I also wonder about the nature of his relationship with this elderly man. That strikes me as very odd.

 

[wondering25]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
Don't I recall being able to investigate people once LE states they are POIs? I thought that was the rule? According to this, the sheriff is quite specific about GGF not being nor becoming a suspect. However, he doesn't put the other 3 in the same light. (This is a recent article.)

5:31 p.m. MDT July 28, 2015

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

The sheriff says the great-grandfather is not considered a suspect due to his declining physical and mental health.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...rest/30799181/

Sheriff seems to be using POI and suspect interchangeably..sort of..why not say GGP is not considered a person of interest even though he was there, due to his declining health? Seems purposely ambiguous... JMO

 

[wondering25]

I've seen severe criticism with regards to very casual posts completely unrelated to DeOrr. It is a hard for people to digest but as I always say people grieve differently and handle stress in ways that we might find bizarre.

I believe that INITIALLY people grieve the same..which is why when the police first come upon a questionable scene they assess the demeanor of those present. How we cope going forward may be different but grieving is universal and recognizable in the first hours/days of the loss. jmo

 

[SleuthMom]

This morning very early I made a post but I cannot find it now, I am hoping it is just me who cannot find it and has not been deleted? Because I am quite certain that I did not break any rules . Will take a screenshot this time just in case to be sure I am not going nuts. Anyways, this is what I said (similar post) about the discussion we were having about Facebook:

I can understand deactivating your account on FB. What I cannot understand is not using the wonderful and unique opportunity of being interviewed on national media that will allow you to attract millions of people and put little DeOrr's face out there to help you find him.

 

[SleuthMom]

And how the heck would he be given the responsibility to watch a 2 yr old out in the woods by a running creek?

I do not think he was given the responsibility. In the interview, the parents did not state that they told great-grandfather to watch little DeOrr. They stated that DeOrr was "going to be good with grandpa by the campfire". They did not say they asked great-grandpa to watch him while they went exploring, it seems like they assumed he was going to be okay. Hence, the shocker of great-grandpa when he is asked "Where is little DeOrr?"

 

[Soulmagent]

Calling one Persons of interest leads one to believe that at some point they may more become more interesting but allows for them to become less interesting ...

Suspect leads people to think that LE has the leads on that person.
No one else will be becoming as interesting.
I dunno really sounds like one label lacks enough evidence for charges and the other warrants them.

 

[wondering25]

IIRC, JM's mother worked with this sheriff years ago and that is how he knows the family. No, I cannot link it as it was in first thread and I can never retrace these things.

Did all 4 adults and little Deorr ride in Deorr Sr.'s black pick-up truck? If not, how did GGF and IR get to the campsite?

How much of camp had been set up when the parents returned to the store?

The trip to the store is when my red flag goes up. They have just driven 2 1/2 hours from home to campsite with a toddler strapped in a carseat. Then they get back in the truck for another 2 hour round trip to the store. I call BS!! This child has to be wound up from sitting, being cooped up in a truck, and off they go for 2 more hours. No way! Something has gone wrong during this time frame. IMO. An accident that the parents are afraid to report?

From what I get from the story, when they get back from the store, is when they take their 10 minute exploring hike and leave Deorr with GGF. Why didn't they put him down for a nap first, then take a long exploring hike knowing Deorr would sleep for a while?

The odd reply from IR, GGF's friend, "I was told he was there". What??

To me, it seems that as the days pass, more inconsistencies pop up or show that they don't fit correctly. I do not accept that a wild animal took this precious child. The odds are against it. JMO.

I asked this same question a thread ago.. 4 adults and 1 baby cannot be safely strapped into a pickup truck.. then someone said there was an article that said "vehicles". I asked because i wondered if the trunk of a vehicle could have been left open .. the baby crawled in and then it inadvertently was closed and the car in now sitting in a driveway unused and unchecked for 3 weeks? In any event there appears to be more than one vehicle involved. Who drove the other one? IR? Doesnt sound like GGP was in any condition to drive..Devil is in the timeline and vehicles and who knew they were going there .. someone may very well have been lurking.. but again.. simple is the right answer here...jmo

 

[pepelepolecat]

Thank you very much!

I don't see the 1/600,000 number. The study said approximately 115 children were the victims of "stereotypical kidnapping" (between 60 and 170) in the study year (1997 or 1999 - it's a little confusing.) The number of non-family abductions (58,200) included any crimes against children in which there was even modest forced movement or detention. Half of those cases were not reported to police, so the definition of non-family abduction is pretty broad compared to the earlier study. "Most children's non-family abduction episodes do not involve elements of the extremely alarming kind of crime that parents and reporters have in mind (such as a child's being killed, abducted overnight, taken long distances, held for ransom or with the intent to keep the child) when they think about a kidnapping by a stranger." I'm assuming that these types of crimes are what is considered a "stereotypical abduction".

It also says that teenage girls are the most frequent targets of non-family abductions and stereotypical kidnappings. In that case, to make the statistic meaningful, we should probably ask ourselves what are the chances of a two year-old being abducted by a stranger, since the overall statistic would be skewed by the greater frequency of teenage girls in stereotypical abductions. It would be interesting to know how many of those 115 abductions were toddler boys. Suffice it to say, if the frequency of stranger abduction (which I now see is different from "stereotypical abduction" which is what DeOrr's parents believe happened to him) is 1 in 600,000, it must be even lower for a 2 year-old boy.

You know what they say about statistics? 78% of them are pulled out of someone's *hat*...

I assumed that a .gov site would be more accurate than someone's hat, but you may be right. Finding accurate info can be tough sometimes.

 

[skinnycat]

This has never looked good for poor lil DeOrr since the beginning.

With this being such a back country camping area, I couldn't imagine the extra work load of not only a toddler but an elderly man whom is not in great physical condition, no running water, no bathroom besides a walk down the path, was this elderly man going to be sleeping on the ground, even with an air mattress I wouldn't want my elderly mother sleeping in a tent. Thinking about all the supplies that you would need for such a camping trip, you could easily forget something that is needed like something for water filtration

I just don't understand why at least one of these oversized cowboy boots wasn't found, the only predator that would make sure that one boot wasn't left behind is a two legged predator.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Well, we just returned from an 8-day tent camping trip with our 7-yr old grandson. I am super organized and make lists for my lists . I always take everything and anything we might need no matter where we travel. HOWEVER, we found OURSELVES driving to the nearest down shortly after we began setting up camp. I had asked my husband OVER and OVER again if we had enough tarps and ropes so we could make shelters over the picnic table and one over our cooking area, plus one for under the tent and one inside the tent. Hmmm, turns out that was not the case and we were short two tarps and several ropes, plus we needed worms for fishing. Oh, and we all went to town. I just don't find it at ALL unusual to find you need something, especially when you're camping with five people, ages 2-70.

We always set up camp and then head into the nearest town (which is about 20-30 minutes from the campsite) to get ice and groceries. It's just easier than toting all that stuff along with us. And we allllll go (usually). I can't say that I find this unusual either.

I do think I'd be wanting as much info as possible on that sighting rather than dismissing it because the timing would be right (imo) for an abductor.

 

[jmcgladr]

I believe that INITIALLY people grieve the same..which is why when the police first come upon a questionable scene they assess the demeanor of those present. How we cope going forward may be different but grieving is universal and recognizable in the first hours/days of the loss. jmo

I'm not sure this is always true - remember Hannah Anderson? A teenage victim of kidnapping by a 50 year old man who killed her mother and brother and even her dog, but people (probably not here, but in other sites) were saying she was a "Lolita" and must have been complicit in the deaths of her mother and brother, just because the way she was grieving "didn't seem right" and she had previously spent time with the killer/kidnapper who she considered an "uncle." Sometimes people in shock do things that might seem strange from an outside perspective.

 

[SleuthMom]

Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching
Don't I recall being able to investigate people once LE states they are POIs? I thought that was the rule? According to this, the sheriff is quite specific about GGF not being nor becoming a suspect. However, he doesn't put the other 3 in the same light. (This is a recent article.)

5:31 p.m. MDT July 28, 2015

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman did confirm to EastIdahoNews.com that Reinwand was at the campsite alongside DeOrr's parents, when the boy went missing.

Bowerman also confirmed that Reinwand, as well as the boy's parents Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz are persons of interest in the case because they were at the scene. They are not being called suspects at this time.

The sheriff says the great-grandfather is not considered a suspect due to his declining physical and mental health.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...rest/30799181/

Sheriff seems to be using POI and suspect interchangeably..sort of..why not say GGP is not considered a person of interest even though he was there, due to his declining health? Seems purposely ambiguous... JMO

BBM.

A few comments/questions:

First, the mention of great-grandfather not considered a suspect comes after the reporter states that Jessica Mitchel and DeOrr Kunz are not suspects at this time. It does not seem to me that Sheriff is using the words interchangeably. Rest assured, LE does not ruled out people casually. They do not say great-grandpa was ruled out as a POI because it is my opinion that he will not be a reliable witness. Great-grandfather's health is definitely serious, both physical and mental which brings me to point #3.

Why would you think a great-grandfather whose health is so severe that caused him to be ruled out of a police investigation, would be capable of watching after an active 2 year old or in their words "he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire"?. I could understand (if they were not aware of IR's criminal record) if they have said ""he was going to be good with grandpa and friend by the campfire" but no mention of the friend at all during the interview. As a matter of fact, it makes the viewer deduce that during that very crucial moment of the toddler's disappearance it was only little DeOrr and great-grandpa alone. IR seems to disagree. Actually, it makes the viewer deduce that the only people during the trip were: Mom, dad, little DeOrr and great-grandpa. The omission is intriguing.