ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[Dee10]

The two suspects had "portions" of their polygraphs that were inconclusive. IR & the grandfathers were just listed as inconclusive, so maybe the basic questions like their name was equally inconclusive

Some medications can affect a polygraph, this is probably not all inclusive:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/237047-drugs-that-affect-a-lie-detector-test/

 

[ReadySet]

He had an adequate command of the English language and had no problems understanding questions and answering them. Even when the other producer tried to slip him up, he managed to avoid answering the question. I saw absolutely nothing that would be a "cause" for him to receive inconclusives on his polygraphs, as Bowerman would have us believe. IMO

Special education teacher here, with decades of experience working with students with language impairments, auditory processing problems, students on autisim spectrum etc.
There is no way you can take anecdotal evidence --that's what observing IR in this video would be--and determine if he has a language impairment or any other kind of impairment. That takes batteries of tests, and in a case of an auditory processing problem, an audioligist. IR might, or might not, have any of these impairments, or some other kind of difficulty. Unless you are an SLP, and even then I would question it, your conclusion isn't valid. Respectfully. IMO.

 

[Midge Montana]

The two suspects had "portions" of their polygraphs that were inconclusive. IR & the grandfathers were just listed as inconclusive, so maybe the basic questions like their name was equally inconclusive

Some medications can affect a polygraph, this is probably not all inclusive:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/237047-drugs-that-affect-a-lie-detector-test/

Correct. Command of the language and understanding the questions aren't the only things that could bring about inconclusive results. The polygraph measures the body's reaction, which can be skewed by medicines, as you just stated. In theory, a person could be telling a lie, but their body's response wouldn't register as deceitful OR they could be truthful and still have it register as a lie.
IMO, the experts involved in the testing in this case know enough about the science of polygraphs and have adequate information on the subjects to be able to speak with more knowledge than most of us here. In other words, they have valid reasons to 'expect' inconsistent results in those two subjects. So, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[kammiemc]

Personally I wouldn't leave my toddler with anyone I didn't know, regardless of whether they fix bikes. But JM and DK didn't leave their child with IR. IR walked to the creek with them and then they separated and he fished on his own. They said they left him with grandpa. <modsnip>

Bowerman named the parents primary suspects in their child's disappearance, not IR. He said they can't keep their story straight. <modsnip>

Sorry, I am on Tapatalk. <modsnip>.


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[Rayemonde]

Personally, I don't put much stock in lie detector tests. But I do believe Bowerman when he says the parents keep changing their story. They "absolutely" know where he is - that's pretty damning...

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Special education teacher here, with decades of experience working with students with language impairments, auditory processing problems, students on autisim spectrum etc.
There is no way you can take anecdotal evidence --that's what observing IR in this video would be--and determine if he has a language impairment or any other kind of impairment. That takes batteries of tests, and in a case of an auditory processing problem, an audioligist. IR might, or might not, have any of these impairments, or some other kind of difficulty. Unless you are an SLP, and even then I would question it, your conclusion isn't valid. Respectfully. IMO.

Great post! THANK YOU!

 

[ZooSleuth]

Criminal defense attorney Allen Browning speaks like a really good criminal defense attorney.

He said Vernal hired the PI. And some other stuff that doesn't really stand out to me at this time. Just a lot about defending the falsely accused and LE interview tactics.

http://590kid.com/2016/01/26/deorr-kunz-sr-attorney-speaks-with-kid-in-extended-interview/

BBM: This stood out to me in the interview. He said Vernal paid Klein a lot of money to try to find his son (it's the first question/answer in part 2). This differs from what we have heard before about who hired Klein and who was paying him.

 

[ClaireNC]

I thought he did have problems understanding and answering questions... The very first question made that clear. He took it at face value, and failed to read Nate's true meaning into it. Moo.

Jumping off your post Rayemonde. I agree. IMO He did not comprehend many of the questions and answered them as a child would. It seemed to me that some of the more detailed responses he gave were rehearsed. For instance, I doubt that he ever uses the words "social media" and might not even really know what it means. IMO. I bet they did a few practice runs of the important parts of the Q&A with his lawyer coaching him on exactly how to answer.

I also suspect that they went through the interview with a fine tooth comb before releasing it. That definitely was not an non-edited interview.

Anybody that thinks this man has a good command of the English language and had no problems comprehending the questions must not speak the same English language that I learned in school. Or they just like to argue.

As somebody said upthread, I just want to give IR a hug. I am truly sorry that I ever thought he could have been involved in Deorr's disappearance. That poor man.

 

[kammiemc]

BBM: This stood out to me in the interview. He said Vernal paid Klein a lot of money to try to find his son (it's the first question/answer in part 2). This differs from what we have heard before about who hired Klein and who was paying him.

Um, yeah his lawyer is mistaken. I, like many other members of the public, helped pay for the PI. That is no secret at all. His lawyer has either made some assumptions that are untrue or he is spinning. (Gasp)Now what lawyer would do that?


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[CoverMeCagney]

Personally, I don't put much stock in lie detector tests. But I do believe Bowerman when he says the parents keep changing their story. They "absolutely" know where he is - that's pretty damning...

We don't really use them much in the UK I don't think and they're certainly not admissable in any court of law. According to this Wiki page they're not used much in Europe. I can't believe some countries give lie detector tests in job interviews!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph

 

[ILOKAL]

In general that may be true, but you also have to look at baseline language. I don't think his verbal and language skills are typical.

There's not a thing wrong with IR's verbal and language skills. He understands and he relates and he uses language appropriately. Why is his capacity being diminished? IMO. Must be a reason.

 

[TeaTime]

Question: What was the reason given that the parents weren't allowed to search certain areas?

LE never wants the parents of a missing child or the spouse of a missing person to do land searches because there is always a HUGE problem if that person finds the body as in "did they find it because they knew where it was?". This would just complicate the issue. Plus as we have seen before, a relative has a tendency to disturb the scene by picking up/touching/moving the body/clothes/burial matter, etc.

IIRC:

these parents were not allowed to search in the 2.5-3.0 mile search radius established by the professional search teams. LE can't stop them from searching outside that perimeter which is what I think they were doing.

when the pro-searches were over, the parents and family members were free to search within that perimeter and did.

 

[ILOKAL]

Special education teacher here, with decades of experience working with students with language impairments, auditory processing problems, students on autisim spectrum etc.
There is no way you can take anecdotal evidence --that's what observing IR in this video would be--and determine if he has a language impairment or any other kind of impairment. That takes batteries of tests, and in a case of an auditory processing problem, an audioligist. IR might, or might not, have any of these impairments, or some other kind of difficulty. Unless you are an SLP, and even then I would question it, your conclusion isn't valid. Respectfully. IMO.

<modsnip>I have plenty of my own experience in this area (particularly with language impairments and auditory impairments) and can speak and give opinions that are quite valid. We have both viewed the same person and the same interview. Furthermore, he's not strange looking or scary looking as some here had alleged. Of course, anyone who looked at previous photos of IR would have known that. He's a pretty regular guy with average intelligence who had no trouble holding his own during the interview. Except from nervously rubbing his hands, the rest of his body was relaxed. IMO

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Um, yeah his lawyer is mistaken. I, like many other members of the public, helped pay for the PI. That is no secret at all. His lawyer has either made some assumptions that are untrue or he is spinning. (Gasp)Now what lawyer would do that?


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Correct...the PI was paid for by FB users through donations of money and gifts to be auctioned or raffled off.

 

[Rayemonde]

Bowerman has not said why they think IR's polygraph was inconclusive. It could be any number of things, eg. anxiety or certain medications.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

BBM: This stood out to me in the interview. He said Vernal paid Klein a lot of money to try to find his son (it's the first question/answer in part 2). This differs from what we have heard before about who hired Klein and who was paying him.

I'm wondering if he was referring to Vilt since we were told it was an extended family member that hired Klein.

 

[Purplepixii]

There's not a thing wrong with IR's verbal and language skills. He understands and he relates and he uses language appropriately. Why is his capacity being diminished? IMO. Must be a reason.

Were you watching the same interview as the rest of us? Just wondering if maybe I've missed one because the Isaac I saw is exactly the opposite of the one you are attempting to describe. :facepalm:

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

There's not a thing wrong with IR's verbal and language skills. He understands and he relates and he uses language appropriately. Why is his capacity being diminished? IMO. Must be a reason.

What do you think the reason is?

 

[scmom]

I'm no expert but Isaac didn't seem to be a skilled wordsmith to me.

 

[bessie]

Please continue at Thread #17

A couple of posts have been moved to the new thread.