Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

[Madeleine74]

There is definitely circumstantial evidence pointing to them planting and tainting. And after you take out all the tainted evidence all you had was circumstantial with Avery. SO if you take out the key and the rav that directly connected him to the car. If you can convict a man of murder on circumstantial evidence. Couldnt you convict the cops on circumstantial evidence?

Just wondering? JMO you know all that jazz.

There's no circumstantial evidence showing planting. Suggesting it must have happened is not evidence. Opining the cops had it in for SA is not evidence. Where's the witness(es) who heard the cops admit to something? Anyone? Where was the key for Lenk or Colburn to get it? No evidence was presented on that.

If you understood the difference between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence you'd realize it's direct evidence that has gotten suspects wrongfully convicted in cases in the past. Circumstantial evidence is often quite powerful. Under the law, both types of evidence are considered to be equally important. The vast majority of murders do not have direct evidence. Most murders have no eye witness to the murder, no video of the murder taking place, and no confession by the murderer. Those 3 things are direct evidence. Everything else, including forensic evidence is circumstantial. And it's circumstantial evidence (DNA) that often gets someone's sentence overturned.

I question direct evidence because an eye witness to a crime can be mistaken. A confession may have been coerced. Direct evidence is what's been completely discounted in TH's case: can't trust what BD said he saw or admitted because it was coerced. Can't believe BD's confession.

So yes, a conviction can be obtained on "just" circumstantial evidence and most cases are only circumstantial.

 

[missy1974]

Oh Also they seem to be adding new stuff to the site now. few more pictures I saw and couple documents. www.stevenaverycase.org/

was just going to come and post that! LOL

here is a good breakdown of what has been added
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...docs_and_photos_from_averys_trial_now_online/

 

[MysticJynx]

There's no circumstantial evidence showing planting. Suggesting it must have happened is not evidence. Opining the cops had it in for SA is not evidence. Where's the witness(es) who heard the cops admit to something? Anyone? Where was the key for Lenk or Colburn to get it? No evidence was presented on that.

If you understood the difference between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence you'd realize it's direct evidence that has gotten suspects wrongfully convicted in cases in the past. Circumstantial evidence is often quite powerful. Under the law, both types of evidence are considered to be equally important. The vast majority of murders do not have direct evidence. Most murders have no eye witness to the murder, no video of the murder taking place, and no confession by the murderer. Those 3 things are direct evidence. Everything else, including forensic evidence is circumstantial. And it's circumstantial evidence (DNA) that often gets someone's sentence overturned.

I question direct evidence because an eye witness to a crime can be mistaken. A confession may have been coerced. Direct evidence is what's been completely discounted in TH's case: can't trust what BD said he saw or admitted because it was coerced. Can't believe BD's confession.

So yes, a conviction can be obtained on "just" circumstantial evidence and most cases are only circumstantial.

Um there is plenty. the open container and vial of blood, There is the lying on the warrants, reports and testimony. The pictures that back up the fact that they planted the key. There is no proof that key came from any where but one of their pockets. This is my circumstantial evidence. you have them implanting themselves into the scene when they should have been backed up. None of the real evidence was found without either Lenk Or colborn near by. Yeah Id say there is. But you know my opinion differs from yours. Plus there probably had been more evidence had the AG/DOJ/DCI did their jobs and investigated the accusation SA was making from the beginning that he believed they were planting evidence. But no. they worked along side people who should not have been on the scene. Turning their blinders on as well. The whole state was going to be losing money once that bill was signed. And reputations. And then the 36 million possibilities. Yeah I see a lot of circumstantial evidence. JMO

 

[Madeleine74]

Um there is plenty. the open container and vial of blood, There is the lying on the warrants, reports and testimony. The pictures that back up the fact that they planted the key. There is no proof that key came from any where but one of their pockets. This is my circumstantial evidence. you have them implanting themselves into the scene when they should have been backed up. None of the real evidence was found without either Lenk Or colborn near by. Yeah Id say there is. But you know my opinion differs from yours. Plus there probably had been more evidence had the AG/DOJ/DCI did their jobs and investigated the accusation SA was making from the beginning that he believed they were planting evidence. But no. they worked along side people who should not have been on the scene. Turning their blinders on as well. The whole state was going to be losing money once that bill was signed. And reputations. And then the 36 million possibilities. Yeah I see a lot of circumstantial evidence. JMO

I'm sure the appellate and superior courts will find all that very interesting.

 

[MysticJynx]

I read something in the transcripts about this odd address associated to TH. I see now in the pictures where that came from. Was on SA's desk it seems. I have looked this address up found a person listed to the address, a girl that would have been just about TH's age. Wonder what that is all about? will have to look into it. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-149-sign-zander-road-1024x693.jpg It could be one of two address actually...https://www.google.com/maps/dir/330...cfd4f0ae10e3140d!2m2!1d-87.691001!2d44.313903


One seems abandoned. HMMM

 

[missy1974]

I read something in the transcripts about this odd address associated to TH. I see now in the pictures where that came from. Was on SA's desk it seems. I have looked this address up found a person listed to the address, a girl that would have been just about TH's age. Wonder what that is all about? will have to look into it. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-149-sign-zander-road-1024x693.jpg It could be one of two address actually...https://www.google.com/maps/dir/330...cfd4f0ae10e3140d!2m2!1d-87.691001!2d44.313903


One seems abandoned. HMMM

huh... what does that mean? I searched the full transcript.... I see the address mentioned twice, but I don't see that they made any connection or why that would be on the same page? and is that SA's writing?

 

[missy1974]

Zellner tweet ... lol

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 3m3 minutes ago
http://www.businessinsider.com/brendan-dassey-making-a-murderer-sexual-abuse-allegation-2016-2 … Of course it's false. False confessions are often bolstered by other false claims--these kind of cops have a recipe

and another one...

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 1m1 minute ago
http://businessinsider.com/brendan-dassey … Of course it's false. False confessions are often mixed w/ other false claims--bad cop class 101 #MakingAMurderer

 

[missy1974]

Zellner's tweets are now gone...
:runaway:

 

[Sustained]

Zellner's tweets are now gone...
:runaway:

[video=youtube;a6g9lfGnFx0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6g9lfGnFx0[/video]

 

[missy1974]

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw
TH throat cut (- blood) Head shot (- spatter) But RAV4 has her blood -so she was put in car & driven 20 ft to burn pit? #MakingAMurderer

Another tweet.... copied before it disappeared again LOL

 

[Wendy101]

are you done yet??? LOL I binge watched it.... when I stared, I just had to finish! LOL The documentary is slanted towards SA, but do your research when you are done all the documents that are available so far can be found here:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/

thanks for the link... Looking forward to something that shows me these two are 100% guilty.
I am not sure I will find anything that will convince me Brendon is guilty of anything other than having an IQ 73 (or 71 - can't remember)
Well, off I go to search

 

[missy1974]

thanks for the link... Looking forward to something that shows me these two are 100% guilty.
I am not sure I will find anything that will convince me Brendon is guilty of anything other than having an IQ 73 (or 71 - can't remember)
Well, off I go to search

I'm guessing you are done watching lol Brendan's story just breaks my heart, even if SA is guilty, I don't believe for a minute that Brendan is at all. If you look around on here, you will find links to his full confessions or transcripts.

 

[Wendy101]

Ok. It am having a hard time getting past the injustice done to Brenden... It is causing me to be closed minded about Stevens case. I can't trust that anything is real. It can't even trust it was his blood that was sent in for evicence to the FBI - all they were testing for was a certain substance - FBI didn't test Who's blood they were testing.. I guess I need to read more... Because right now, if I was sitting on the jury, both men would have been innocent and a few of the lawyers would have been charged instead with tampering with crime scene and evidence.

Can someone tell me why TH's DNA was not on her own key?

 

[missy1974]

Ok. It am having a hard time getting past the injustice done to Brenden... It is causing me to be closed minded about Stevens case. I can't trust that anything is real. It can't even trust it was his blood that was sent in for evicence to the FBI - all they were testing for was a certain substance - FBI didn't test Who's blood they were testing.. I guess I need to read more... Because right now, if I was sitting on the jury, both men would have been innocent and a few of the lawyers would have been charged instead with tampering with crime scene and evidence.

Can someone tell me why TH's DNA was not on her own key?

I think you are in the same position that I was.... and we are not alone lol I also had a hard time with BD's confession and why they would go to such great lengths to "get their man", it's one thing to throw a grown man into jail.... but what they did to BD, there is just no excuse and can't believe they can sleep at night. IMO

The EDTA testing ~ I have asked the same question about what they were testing and if they even tested to make sure it was SA's DNA.... I guess that comes with not trusting Culhane though.... her work seems questionable after deviating from protocol with the bullet DNA to "put TH in the house/garage" and everything I see from her is just uhmmm questionable now, again IMO

the key ~ No TH's DNA.... that just doesn't make any sense. In a world where people also believe that SA and BD cleaned up the house/garage well enough to leave ZERO trace of TH, maybe he cleaned the key? But then that isn't consistent with him leaving the blood in the RAV4, right? He either was so smart ...or not so smart LOL I know how I hold my keys, touch my keys, I can't imagine my DNA not being picked up on my key. There is also the other question.... where was her other key? where was her house key, her garage key, her studio key? The key that was found was said to be a 'valet key', not the master key. Also to note.... the other end of the lanyard was found in the middle console of her RAV4, as far as I have been able to find.... no testing was done on it.

Again... all JMO keep reading Wendy. ;-)

 

[missy1974]

pulled this from reddit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQqi8JB7amg&feature=youtu.be

2 frustrated Calumet officers burn a dummy in an officers uniform with tags with names of other officers and the sheriff.

The one that was demoted to 'dispatcher' was an investigator and helped with the search in SA's case (Wendy Baldwin, married name Schmitz). Wonder that they were frustrated about?

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I think you are in the same position that I was.... and we are not alone lol I also had a hard time with BD's confession and why they would go to such great lengths to "get their man", it's one thing to throw a grown man into jail.... but what they did to BD, there is just no excuse and can't believe they can sleep at night. IMO

The EDTA testing ~ I have asked the same question about what they were testing and if they even tested to make sure it was SA's DNA.... I guess that comes with not trusting Culhane though.... her work seems questionable after deviating from protocol with the bullet DNA to "put TH in the house/garage" and everything I see from her is just uhmmm questionable now, again IMO

the key ~ No TH's DNA.... that just doesn't make any sense. In a world where people also believe that SA and BD cleaned up the house/garage well enough to leave ZERO trace of TH, maybe he cleaned the key? But then that isn't consistent with him leaving the blood in the RAV4, right? He either was so smart ...or not so smart LOL I know how I hold my keys, touch my keys, I can't imagine my DNA not being picked up on my key. There is also the other question.... where was her other key? where was her house key, her garage key, her studio key? The key that was found was said to be a 'valet key', not the master key. Also to note.... the other end of the lanyard was found in the middle console of her RAV4, as far as I have been able to find.... no testing was done on it.

Again... all JMO keep reading Wendy. ;-)

I'm in the same boat too! I'm being a total nut case about this whole thing but I can't trust anyone who "came up" with "evidence". One minute I feel like Ms. Zellner is going to blow wide open this whole 30 year conspiracy and then the next I feel like one of those Elvis is really alive weirdos.
I can't reconcile what they (LE) did to BD. I can't believe that SA would tow her car (see rav4 thread) down the line of cars to keep it in his yard all week when he has a car crusher and he has the key. I can't believe he would cut her up then place her in the back of her car only to drive her to his back yard burn pit. And I can't believe he would burn her in his back yard for a big old bonfire when he has a smelter. It makes NO sense.

 

[missy1974]

[video=youtube;AlOLgDfZNx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlOLgDfZNx4[/video]

this is an interview on a radio program with Buting.

Justiceseeker ~ I feel the same. And sometimes I feel like a whackadoo and I read one theory and go yep, that sounds about right... then another theory and go hmmm maybe! In this interview.... even Buting says he still believes SA is innocent because of the evidence and inconsistencies and things just don't make sense, and he has "suspects" and sometimes he thinks it's this one or that one... and he even reads theories on reddit LOL I don't feel so bad now ;-)

 

[MysticJynx]

So did anyone notice yet that Sheriff KP was mentioned in the SA incident when he and a few others burnt that cat. Even before he arrested SA in the PB case.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...udgment-of-Conviction-1982-Animal-Cruelty.pdf

 

[missy1974]

I did Mystic LOL

Sometimes I wonder how many employees the SD actually has?

It's like Colborn walking BD or SA in and out of court.... they had no other employees that could do that?

*smh*

 

[Justiceseeker35]

So did anyone notice yet that Sheriff KP was mentioned in the SA incident when he and a few others burnt that cat. Even before he arrested SA in the PB case.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...udgment-of-Conviction-1982-Animal-Cruelty.pdf

I just had the weirdest... I mean weirdest thought. I just read that complaint. It somehow sounded eerily similar to the TH burning of her remains. In that because they did that to a cat somehow they could do that to a person?? I mean the accelerant, the cat body, watching it burn in the bon fire. It's almost like the Sheriff is sending a message that he's behind the "story".