ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[haven71]

No, not on the count of three. I explained what very likely might have happened andit's makes sense without even trying. All three searched and couldn't find Deorr. They decided to call 911. Grandpa (and probably the parents also) didn't have a signal. Jessica walked to a new location and Vernal drove his truck to a new location. In the meantime, GGPA got a signal and called. I just don't think there's a mystery to the three calls.

We don't know that they were searching though. Perhaps GGP was, but JM and DK sure weren't as it's been determined they know what happened to him and where he is currently. It doesn't make sense to ME that three 911 calls were made in close succession. If it were my child, I might make the call during the time my husband scaled the terrain looking and my GGP walked along the creek (you get the idea). I don't care HOW LONG my child had been gone, everyone would be frantically searching while only one call needed to be made.

 

[ClaireNC]

Klein thinks they know how, but they don't know why.

Why is why so important at this stage? I'm taking it to mean...why did it happen, the accident (and a coverup?) or intentionally...what was the motive? I feel other information is more important at this point than motive. Sure, motive would help move things along too, but I'd rather be assured that LE knows the "where's".

So it sounds like they know who did it, and how it was done. They don't know why (which could indicate why did they outright kill their child, or perhaps why they did not seek help if in fact there was an accident)? Is that how you fellow sleuthers understand it? That the why he's referring to is the motive?

It would seem that the "where" has been determined at least in part. They believe he was alive at the campground, and they intend to do additional searches up there. Now we need to know when he was killed and where, as well as where the body is currently.

Unfortunately I don't feel there will be any confessions that will magically clear these things up.

Klein has an odd way of communicating, so it's hard to know what he means by "how" and "why". I don't necessarily think he is referring to motive. It could be something like this: The how could be "His parents are responsible for his death" or "He is missing because he is dead". The why might be "why is he dead?"...as in, what caused his death.

 

[1&2&3]

IIRC, when DK got 911 on the phone, they told him they had his wife or the mother on the phone. So basically his call was not needed and they hung up.

 

[ClaireNC]

No, not on the count of three. I explained what very likely might have happened andit's makes sense without even trying. All three searched and couldn't find Deorr. They decided to call 911. Grandpa (and probably the parents also) didn't have a signal. Jessica walked to a new location and Vernal drove his truck to a new location. In the meantime, GGPA got a signal and called. I just don't think there's a mystery to the three calls.

I just posted about this above your post. Why would all three people call 911? It is common practice and simply logical to assign one person to call 911 when dealing with any emergency situation.

 

[haven71]

Klein has an odd way of communicating, so it's hard to know what he means by "how" and "why". I don't necessarily think he is referring to motive. It could be something like this: The how could be "His parents are responsible for his death" or "He is missing because he is dead". The why might be "why is he dead?"...as in, what caused his death.

True. Could mean a lot of different things but I sure wish he'd elaborated.

 

[ClaireNC]

I disagree. I believe certain things could possibly be discerned from the details of GGP's 911 call. The assumption is that he was calling to report his missing grandchild. But given that the fishing, exploring etc has been decidedly fabricated it's possible that GGP called for another reason (imo something that was happening to or had already happened to Deorr). I'm just saying it's possible, although I admit not probable IMO. I also think his call is relevant so one could get a grasp on GGP's mental acuity at the time. Did his story line up with the 911 calls from JM and DK? Perhaps certain details were given by GGP but withheld by the parents. For these reasons, I'm not ready to chalk it up to simply being irrelevant to the investigation. MOO

Thank you for saying what I have been trying to get across for the past few days!

 

[kammiemc]

Klein thinks they know how, but they don't know why.

Why is why so important at this stage? I'm taking it to mean...why did it happen, the accident (and a coverup?) or intentionally...what was the motive? I feel other information is more important at this point than motive. Sure, motive would help move things along too, but I'd rather be assured that LE knows the "where's".

So it sounds like they know who did it, and how it was done. They don't know why (which could indicate why did they outright kill their child, or perhaps why they did not seek help if in fact there was an accident)? Is that how you fellow sleuthers understand it? That the why he's referring to is the motive?

It would seem that the "where" has been determined at least in part. They believe he was alive at the campground, and they intend to do additional searches up there. Now we need to know when he was killed and where, as well as where the body is currently.

Unfortunately I don't feel there will be any confessions that will magically clear these things up.

I understand it the way you understand it!!!! I am on Tapatalk so can't figure out how to bold your pertinent part..."they know who did it and how it was done. They just don't know why." That's exactly what I think Klein said and MEANT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

Is there any reason to believe it was any less thorough than if any other LE team were involved in another case?

Sorry if my post was unclear, I wasn't meaning to imply it had to do with which agency was doing the searching, or with any other case.

My point is that Deorr was assumed initially to be lost in the woods. Therefore, did LE have time that night to do a thorough search of the vehicles and the camper before the family left in them. If they were going by the claims he had wondered away or taken by wildlife, I would think that searching out there would have been their priority.

ETA: I'm actually quite sure LE made it a point to thoroughly search every vehicle before they were allowed to leave in them, it's just something I was thinking about. I always question things, one of my bad habits, lol.

 

[Little Ol Me]

It's my opinion that GGP's 911 call didn't go through, or was dropped.

I base this on the times offered by Kline. If his times are correct, GGP's call had to have been the one at 2:22.

If his call had gone through, and he talked with 911, I think that S&R would have been called right away.

During Jessica's call the 911 operator ask her to hold on, and the operator then tells, or calls, someone to say we need S&R.

Hope that makes sense.

ETA: also by Kline's 911 times, the calls are 6 min. apart.

 

[Beezneez]

I do not know how LE can manage the restraint needed to keep from grabbing some people & shaking the answers out of them. I would lose my mind if I knew someone had harmed their child & just couldn't be bothered. I've been reading about that baby in Florida today, my patience is thin for parents unappreciative of their children. Nothing seeming to happen with this investigation, hopefully the water is boiling just under the surface.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Sorry if my post was unclear, I wasn't meaning to imply it had to do with which agency was doing the searching, or with any other case.

My point is that Deorr was assumed initially to be lost in the woods. Therefore, did LE have time that night to do a thorough search of the vehicles and the camper before the family left in them. If they were going by the claims he had wondered away or taken by wildlife, I would think that searching out there would have been their priority.

ETA: I'm actually quite sure LE made it a point to thoroughly search every vehicle before they were allowed to leave in them, it's just something I was thinking about. I always question things, one of my bad habits, lol.

NOT a bad habit at all, IMO.

 

[neesaki]

I understand it the way you understand it!!!! I am on Tapatalk so can't figure out how to bold your pertinent part..."they know who did it and how it was done. They just don't know why." That's exactly what I think Klein said and MEANT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To know how, wouldn't they have to have physical and / or forensic evidence? I'm not sure if Klein meant what he said, or said what it sounded like he meant.

I think I get the why, intentional or accidental. And if accidental, why cover it up?

 

[TxJan1971]

I understand it the way you understand it!!!! I am on Tapatalk so can't figure out how to bold your pertinent part..."they know who did it and how it was done. They just don't know why." That's exactly what I think Klein said and MEANT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To know how, wouldn't they have to have physical and / or forensic evidence? I'm not sure if Klein meant what he said, or said what it sounded like he meant.

I think I get the why, accident or intentional. Right? What else could he mean?

BBM

Eaton: Lisa wants to know, “What does Klein mean by information from folks that have come forward regarding axillary issues up on the mountain that day?”

Klein: What I mean by axillary issues are there are other issues that have come into play through interviewing sources we can say all the way back down to the timeline. I’m not willing to discuss the timeline publicly again because of prosecutorial issues, but I will say that axillary means that other information has been discovered during the course and scope of the operation – both forensically and through witness testimony. Those are still in development and it’d be unfair for me to say

and

Eaton: And our final question is from Brandee. She says, “What are the next steps for law enforcement and Klein going forward with this case?

Klein: Great question, Brandee. I believe that the next step, as I’ve said earlier, is that we are actually focusing on that timeline. We’re going forward through the timeline and through witness testimony and secondary witness testimony. We are either verifying or denying what has been given to us before. For example, and I’m just giving you an example, if I say I’m at the 7/11 at 7 o’clock in the morning and then I give that testimony to an FBI agent or a police officer, obviously the FBI or police officers or PSB agents like us are going to verify that. So we’ll go do that through witness testimony and video so you can well assume we’re verifying everything on that timeline. And that’s pretty much the painstaking part right now – going through and verifying every minute, every fifteen minutes, every second in some cases where we’re verifying the testimony of the people that were on the mountain that day as well as the axillary issues and some physical evidence that has been discovered.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...s-to-ask-the-deorr-kunz-private-investigator/

Adding this:
Eaton: Robin wants to know, “Has the FBI shared their evidence with you or is there new forensic evidence that you have obtained since you started on the case?”

Klein: I think it would be inappropriate for me to discuss anything that we are discussing with law enforcement. The only thing I will say on the record is that we are in active discussions with law enforcement. We have been so. You’ve got the FBI from up there in Idaho, you’ve got Quantico involved, you’re got two great sheriffs that have given great detectives on this case, not to mention the sheriffs themselves – the guys who sit in the office. I would say that this is one of the greatest working operations between PSB (private security bureau) and law enforcement that I’ve seen probably in my 26 year career.

 

[giagreen]

I have read Klein saying that IR wasn't talking to him (Klein), but I must have missed Klein's statements that he (IR) was refusing to talk to SB/police. Either way, I lean towards believing SB over Klein at this point, imo.

I believe them both. SB never said that IR statements where consistent he said
"He’s probably been more consistent on his story from the very beginning"

And if Klein has never talked with IR then what statements is he talking about when he says this about IR

"This goes to direct testimony. The only comment we will make at this point is that : "It depends on which statement you want to believe that came from Isaac."

What direct testimony would he be talking about then?
I think SB is a smart man and has more obligations to keep then Klein. He said all along that the parents where cooperative but that didn't mean much. I'm not necessarily saying I think IR killed and hide DeOrr on his own but I doubt he doesn't know anything if the parents did do something to DeOrr.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/


Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

 

[neesaki]

BBM

Eaton: Lisa wants to know, “What does Klein mean by information from folks that have come forward regarding axillary issues up on the mountain that day?”

Klein: What I mean by axillary issues are there are other issues that have come into play through interviewing sources we can say all the way back down to the timeline. I’m not willing to discuss the timeline publicly again because of prosecutorial issues, but I will say that axillary means that other information has been discovered during the course and scope of the operation – both forensically and through witness testimony. Those are still in development and it’d be unfair for me to say

and

Eaton: And our final question is from Brandee. She says, “What are the next steps for law enforcement and Klein going forward with this case?

Klein: Great question, Brandee. I believe that the next step, as I’ve said earlier, is that we are actually focusing on that timeline. We’re going forward through the timeline and through witness testimony and secondary witness testimony. We are either verifying or denying what has been given to us before. For example, and I’m just giving you an example, if I say I’m at the 7/11 at 7 o’clock in the morning and then I give that testimony to an FBI agent or a police officer, obviously the FBI or police officers or PSB agents like us are going to verify that. So we’ll go do that through witness testimony and video so you can well assume we’re verifying everything on that timeline. And that’s pretty much the painstaking part right now – going through and verifying every minute, every fifteen minutes, every second in some cases where we’re verifying the testimony of the people that were on the mountain that day as well as the axillary issues and some physical evidence that has been discovered.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/0...s-to-ask-the-deorr-kunz-private-investigator/

There's those axillary issues again, something of interest to me since he first mentioned them. It was concerning GGP and IR, IIRC. I'd forgotten this part of the interview though, where he also mentions the forensic and physical evidence, in association with these axillary issues. ( Does he mean ancillary ? lol )

 

[The Apparition]

I understand it the way you understand it!!!! I am on Tapatalk so can't figure out how to bold your pertinent part..."they know who did it and how it was done. They just don't know why." That's exactly what I think Klein said and MEANT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ditto. I'll go one further and say I think LE has some very good ideas about where to search for the remains but are just waiting for the spring thaw. I believe LE has a viable case already but as many have discussed having remains will make court much easier. Klein's information seems legitimate I can't imagine he is just shooting off his mouth without there being some kind of proof in the bank that he and LE both know about.

I know innocent people getting lawyers isn't unheard of, but VDK getting a lawyer makes me think he knows charges are coming. If his son really was missing you'd think he might come out and say this is crazy I did nothing lets find my son. Instead he has hidden behind his lawyer who seems like he is already starting his defense through the media. I feel JM will need a lawyer soon as at a bare minimum she is involved with the cover-up and perhaps lots more.

 

[TxJan1971]

Another statement from Klein when asked if there was physical evidence of baby's death:

Klein
January 19, 2016
This comes despite grim news from private investigator Philip Klein who says he doesn't believe DeOrr is still alive. We asked Klein via Skype if he has found any physical evidence of DeOrr's death.

"I cannot comment on that right now, I will be up front and honest with the public and say there is forensic evidence," said Klein.

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/2016/...-him/79029498/

 

[neesaki]

Excuse me for saying so, but for two people (Klein and Bowerman) to profess to know SO much, why do they then say whatever happened to Deorr is "the million dollar question" (Klein) or "I have no clue" - "I have absolutely no clue" (Bowerman)?

I did find this from the Bellas FB Q & A. Maybe there's something else, I'm just not sure where it would be.

RJ: Mr Klein, in you opinion have the parents lied to law enforcement and/ or to your team?
Klein Investigations and Consulting: R - you just asked the 1 million dollar question. No comment at this time.

 

[The Apparition]

Excuse me for saying so, but for two people (Klein and Bowerman) to profess to know SO much, why do they then say whatever happened to Deorr is "the million dollar question" (Klein) or "I have no clue" - "I have absolutely no clue" (Bowerman)?

You don't need to be excused. I feel Klein said that because that's what everyone wants to know and he is not going to answer that. He could have said "that falls under prosecutorial issues and I will not answer" but he side stepped instead. Bowerman is not going to answer that because he is working a criminal investigation and it would be unwise to comment when the prime suspects haven't been charged. I bet he's going to have lots of clues what happened to Deorr once arrests have been made.

 

[ILOKAL]

[SUP][/SUP]

I remember something about "the million dollar question" in one of Klein's answers on FB. I guess I don't remember it being in response to that question. I really need to go back and refresh my memory on that and several things, lol.

I just checked and it was in response to the question asking if the parents had lied.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page5