ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[ILOKAL]

You don't need to be excused. I feel Klein said that because that's what everyone wants to know and he is not going to answer that. He could have said "that falls under prosecutorial issues and I will not answer" but he side stepped instead. Bowerman is not going to answer that because he is working a criminal investigation and it would be unwise to comment when the prime suspects haven't been charged. I bet he's going to have lots of clues what happened to Deorr once arrests have been made.

Wow! But Bowerman even answered that two times in succession, and the second time he even added emphasis . . . . "I ABSOLUTELY have no clue!"

I appreciate your insight!

 

[DatelineFan]

Excuse me for saying so, but for two people (Klein and Bowerman) to profess to know SO much, why do they then say whatever happened to Deorr is "the million dollar question" (Klein) or "I have no clue" - "I have absolutely no clue" (Bowerman)?

Because they can say whatever they want, and I think they don't want to reveal anything else.

 

[The Apparition]

Wow! But Bowerman even answered that two times in succession, and the second time he even added emphasis . . . . "I ABSOLUTELY have no clue!"

I appreciate your insight!

Ok thanks I guess. If you don't mind me asking you a question, what do you think Bowerman knows or thinks? He and the rest of LE better have some reason for naming the parents of a missing toddler the only 2 suspects. I believe there could be a lawsuit against his department if it is proven they were frivolously named suspects. I have a hard time digesting all of what Klein is putting out there (we know how, there is forensic evidence, the parents know, etc) and then switching gears to believing the sheriff is Barney Fief and has no idea or even a clue as to what happened.

 

[jnblsm]

No, not on the count of three. I explained what very likely might have happened andit's makes sense without even trying. All three searched and couldn't find Deorr. They decided to call 911. Grandpa (and probably the parents also) didn't have a signal. Jessica walked to a new location and Vernal drove his truck to a new location. In the meantime, GGPA got a signal and called. I just don't think there's a mystery to the three calls.

Will respond to this after I've caught up. Just marking my spot for now, because I don't want to forget where your comment is

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[ILOKAL]

Fooled me too!!!


And when asked if he was certain that there was no way Deorr could be in the water. He answered

"You know I dwelled on that fact for a long time but I have to trust the experts.They say when both people failed the same questions multiple times, there is something there and they’re being less than truthful, so I have to trust the experts."

Besides the fact that if he has to trust the experts then what physical evidence could he possibly have? It also makes me feel like he really just doesn't have a clue. I beleive him.

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Something else that has bothered me is he seemed to have put ALL his faith in those first two dogs (one of which was his), and was truly perplexed and dismayed that they failed to find Deorr. He said if Deorr was there, those two dogs should have found him . . . . They really should have! (paraphrasing).

 

[giagreen]

Something else that has bothered me is he seemed to have put ALL his faith in those first two dogs (one of which was his), and was truly perplexed and dismayed that they failed to find Deorr. He said if Deorr was there, those two dogs should have found him . . . . They really should have! (paraphrasing).

One other thing for me is this

Eaton: Do you think an actual crime occurred there at the campsite?

Bowerman: I don’t know.


How can he say that and that the parents are suspects at the same time? Seems like he should know. Hiding your child then calling search and rescue and lying to police is not a crime? If he doesn't know if a crime happen then maybe he really just doesn't have a clue. Crazy.
*http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

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[persimmon]

Ditto. I'll go one further and say I think LE has some very good ideas about where to search for the remains but are just waiting for the spring thaw. I believe LE has a viable case already but as many have discussed having remains will make court much easier. Klein's information seems legitimate I can't imagine he is just shooting off his mouth without there being some kind of proof in the bank that he and LE both know about.

I know innocent people getting lawyers isn't unheard of, but VDK getting a lawyer makes me think he knows charges are coming. If his son really was missing you'd think he might come out and say this is crazy I did nothing lets find my son. Instead he has hidden behind his lawyer who seems like he is already starting his defense through the media. I feel JM will need a lawyer soon as at a bare minimum she is involved with the cover-up and perhaps lots more.

I agree with your thinking and believe when weather permits they will be searching specific spots they have likely marked already.

 

[giagreen]

I think the family truly doesn't beleive they had anything to do with DeOrr being missing.

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[persimmon]

Ditto. I'll go one further and say I think LE has some very good ideas about where to search for the remains but are just waiting for the spring thaw. I believe LE has a viable case already but as many have discussed having remains will make court much easier. Klein's information seems legitimate I can't imagine he is just shooting off his mouth without there being some kind of proof in the bank that he and LE both know about.

I know innocent people getting lawyers isn't unheard of, but VDK getting a lawyer makes me think he knows charges are coming. If his son really was missing you'd think he might come out and say this is crazy I did nothing lets find my son. Instead he has hidden behind his lawyer who seems like he is already starting his defense through the media. I feel JM will need a lawyer soon as at a bare minimum she is involved with the cover-up and perhaps lots more.

So do you believe VDK is primarily responsible? Im just curious and it sounds like you're leaning toward him? Funny, I keep leaning more toward JM and VDK being involved in the coverup etc. At this point, they are both deepy involved but I have always felt she was maybe the one who caused the crime.

 

[TxJan1971]

I believe them both. SB never said that IR statements where consistent he said
"He’s probably been more consistent on his story from the very beginning"

And if Klein has never talked with IR then what statements is he talking about when he says this about IR

"This goes to direct testimony. The only comment we will make at this point is that : "It depends on which statement you want to believe that came from Isaac."

What direct testimony would he be talking about then?

I think SB is a smart man and has more obligations to keep then Klein. He said all along that the parents where cooperative but that didn't mean much. I'm not necessarily saying I think IR killed and hide DeOrr on his own but I doubt he doesn't know anything if the parents did do something to DeOrr.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286501

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/sheriff-i-just-pray-little-deorr-will-be-found/

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BBM

FWIW
Here is what SB said in the link you provided:

Stephan Rockefeller, EastIdahoNews.com producer: When we spoke with Isaac, he said DeOrr was up there. Has his communication with you guys been questioned?

Bowerman: He’s probably been more consistent on his story from the very beginning. We haven’t seen any of the big discrepancies with him. Of course he hasn’t talked to us a whole lot either, so that’s been a challenge. He asked for an attorney before anybody else, but I think that kind of stems from some of his background. He’s had a lot of interaction with law enforcement over the years, so he’s probably just being cautious. But his actual statements have been pretty consistent, and they haven’t varied a whole lot.

 

[desert-blue]

Do we know how GGPA's health is doing? I have a sick feeling about him taking the fall, especially if his health is rapidly declining. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[giagreen]

BBM

FWIW
Here is what SB said in the link you provided:

Stephan Rockefeller, EastIdahoNews.com producer: When we spoke with Isaac, he said DeOrr was up there. Has his communication with you guys been questioned?

Bowerman: He’s probably been more consistent on his story from the very beginning. We haven’t seen any of the big discrepancies with him. Of course he hasn’t talked to us a whole lot either, so that’s been a challenge. He asked for an attorney before anybody else, but I think that kind of stems from some of his background. He’s had a lot of interaction with law enforcement over the years, so he’s probably just being cautious. But his actual statements have been pretty consistent, and they haven’t varied a whole lot.

Pretty consistent? That's not totally consistent imo.
Amd wth if IR isn't refusing to talk to LE then why has it been challenging for them that they havent talked to him a whole lot?

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[persimmon]

I don't think the Kunz relatives know (i.e. I don't think DK confessed anything to them) but I get a weird feeling about JM's mom. I'm not sure that she doesn't know something. It's interesting that a Kunz relative signed the contract with Klein - I'm assuming they were not expecting things to turn out this way. MOO.

TBC has become very quiet since SBs statement about who are suspects. I don't think she has known all along but I think she may know something now.

 

[Donjeta]

JMO from everything out there it sounds to me like they have enough evidence to have a pretty firm clue that whatever happened didn't go as the parents said it did. Which makes it justified to consider them suspects. IMO. But obviously there are still some crucial missing details that they may be clueless about. Otherwise they'd have found Deorr and arrested someone if warranted.

 

[Tr.]

Something else that has bothered me is he seemed to have put ALL his faith in those first two dogs (one of which was his), and was truly perplexed and dismayed that they failed to find Deorr. He said if Deorr was there, those two dogs should have found him . . . . They really should have! (paraphrasing).

Maybe SB is right and there just wasn't anything for those dogs to find. We can't be sure if they were tracker or cadaver dogs unless we ask SB himself however, if he is correct (that the dogs are reliable) and the dogs found no scent then that in itself is very telling.
We've seen several failed attempts to locate the missing with the use of tracking dogs of late.
As recently as last night in Lorain OH. a baby wondered from home (found by a resident driving in his car), Rainne Peterson was found by a man on a quad, Titus Tackett should have certainly been located with dogs but no, and Noah Chamberlin should have been an easy find for any well trained scent dog.

I'm at a loss as to why this is happening. I've worked with dogs and know something of training a successful scent dog. I'm working on training my first cadaver dog now.

 

[persimmon]

Do we know how GGPA's health is doing? I have a sick feeling about him taking the fall, especially if his health is rapidly declining. I hope I'm wrong.

Like you said, he's on the decline and was even prior to this situation. I'm just suspicious about the amount of emphasis that has been put on his health and general condition. It's as though somebody has an angenda...but who and what I don't know.

 

[Donjeta]

Maybe SB is right and there just wasn't anything for those dogs to find. We can't be sure if they were tracker or cadaver dogs unless we ask SB himself however, if he is correct (that the dogs are reliable) and the dogs found no scent then that in itself is very telling.
We've seen several failed attempts to locate the missing with the use of tracking dogs of late.
As recently as last night in Lorain OH. a baby wondered from home (found by a resident driving in his car), Rainne Peterson was found by a man on a quad, Titus Tackett should have certainly been located with dogs but no, and Noah Chamberlin should have been an easy find for any well trained scent dog.

I'm at a loss as to why this is happening. I've worked with dogs and know something of training a successful scent dog. I'm working on training my first cadaver dog now.

OT but the police said things indicating that they thought that the child in Lorain may have been abducted by someone and released there shortly before being found. So she could have been hidden in a house or vehicle, outside of the immediate search area and not accessible to tracking dogs.

 

[persimmon]

Maybe SB is right and there just wasn't anything for those dogs to find. We can't be sure if they were tracker or cadaver dogs unless we ask SB himself however, if he is correct (that the dogs are reliable) and the dogs found no scent then that in itself is very telling.
We've seen several failed attempts to locate the missing with the use of tracking dogs of late.
As recently as last night in Lorain OH. a baby wondered from home (found by a resident driving in his car), Rainne Peterson was found by a man on a quad, Titus Tackett should have certainly been located with dogs but no, and Noah Chamberlin should have been an easy find for any well trained scent dog.

I'm at a loss as to why this is happening. I've worked with dogs and know something of training a successful scent dog. I'm working on training my first cadaver dog now.

But I have been under the impression that SB means the dogs could not get DeOrrs scent beyond the campsite. Is that yours? I took it to mean ...huh strange if he wandered off cuz the dogs don't agree. Jmo.

With cadaver dogs, is it accurate that a body has to be dead and present in a location at least 90 minutes before the dogs can detect the scent?

 

[Little Ol Me]

Maybe SB is right and there just wasn't anything for those dogs to find. We can't be sure if they were tracker or cadaver dogs unless we ask SB himself however, if he is correct (that the dogs are reliable) and the dogs found no scent then that in itself is very telling.
We've seen several failed attempts to locate the missing with the use of tracking dogs of late.
As recently as last night in Lorain OH. a baby wondered from home (found by a resident driving in his car), Rainne Peterson was found by a man on a quad, Titus Tackett should have certainly been located with dogs but no, and Noah Chamberlin should have been an easy find for any well trained scent dog.

I'm at a loss as to why this is happening. I've worked with dogs and know something of training a successful scent dog. I'm working on training my first cadaver dog now.

I don't believe that the first initial dogs were cadaver dogs. SB said that the dogs were trained to find missing persons,...that's what they do. He also said his dog was givena a scent object.
In his first interview with NE he did say that the dogs went to the reservoir, then back to the campsite.
In the radio program ...not his exact words,...he said that the dogs showed some interest, but nothing that lead anywhere.

 

[Tr.]

That's exactly my point. I also followed all four of those cases where the dogs failed to find the child. That's why I think Bowerman's confidence in those first two dogs is SO perplexing. He's like, since those dogs didn't find Deorr he couldn't have been there.

Yep, I get it.
Dogs are great to have in cases like these but they're only as good as their training too.
I wouldn't trust a drug dog to track a person reliably.