IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm sorry but this is irresponsible. So we can now accuse random co workers of murder?

Suspecting a truck driver has been vaguely the first we did in case Abby/Libby. Suspecting a meatpacking worker has been vaguely the next thing we did. We heard of "maybe more than one" as it was said BG had "participated" in the murders. We saw a plastic bag with confiscated rubber boots when LE searched the/a meatpacking plant (if I remember right). - For me a next thought IF not DN then perhaps an accomplice has done the double murder. How did they arrive at Monon bridge? Perhaps in a truck. Why in a truck? Perhaps because they were colleagues (re work and re RSO, maybe also re "homeless" and even maybe re "separated") and did a tour together on a sunny February day in 2017.
I don't accuse someone. I'm thinking loud who maybe responsible for the evil double murder and I would like to find some clues or evidence.
If I was able to ask KN, I would like to ask her why she at the end really became separated to DN and why she did accuse him of many lies on Fb. What was the last and decisive lie he told her?? Something about the 13th/14th February perhaps?
 
Someone commented upthread that nobody has been able to say that they are 99% sure that DN isn't BG. I'll say it...I am 99% sure that DN isn't BG. Some of that has to do with the direct lack of evidence (not matching DNA that we are aware of, no connection to Delphi that we are aware of, no placement in Delphi that we are aware of, unknown COD that could tie him to the murders, the fact that I don't think he looks like the sketch or sounds like the recording, etc.) but MOST of it has to do with the information I've gained through research through off-WS sources. (Things that can't be shared here because of TOS.)

If DN turns out to be BG then I'll admit that I was wrong and I'll be thrilled that he's incarcerated and can't do anymore harm.

(This worries me...)
 
Suspecting a truck driver has been vaguely the first we did in case Abby/Libby. Suspecting a meatpacking worker has been vaguely the next thing we did. We heard of "maybe more than one" as it was said BG had "participated" in the murders. We saw a plastic bag with confiscated rubber boots when LE searched the/a meatpacking plant (if I remember right). - For me a next thought IF not DN then perhaps an accomplice has done the double murder. How did they arrive at Monon bridge? Perhaps in a truck. Why in a truck? Perhaps because they were colleagues (re work and re RSO, maybe also re "homeless" and even maybe re "separated") and did a tour together on a sunny February day in 2017.
I don't accuse someone. I'm thinking loud who maybe responsible for the evil double murder and I would like to find some clues or evidence.
If I was able to ask KN, I would like to ask her why she at the end really became separated to DN and why she did accuse him of many lies on Fb. What was the last and decisive lie he told her?? Something about the 13th/14th February perhaps?
I think maybe something is being lost in translation?
You had posted the guys coworker who drove him was his partner in the killings.

Now, that's different then maybe the killer is a truck driver because you're naming two people.
 
If anyone is interested....

Monday, November 6th:
*Prelim Hearing @ 1:30pm PT for Teller County – CO – Daniel James Nations (31) – charged with being a felon having weapons illegally; also allegedly found in possession of a hatchet & .22 caliber rifle; additional charges will likely be filed (Tim Watkins murder?). Combined bonds $15K.
In El Paso County arrested & charged with Class 5 Felony Menacing, Class 3 Felony Endangerment & Reckless Endangerment, Trespassing, attempted assault, criminal mischief & failing to register as a sex offender in El Paso County. A hearing was held on Nov. 1st; held on $6.8K bond; next hearing on menacing charges Nov. 29th "Maybe" a POI in Abby & Libby’s case in IND.
 
If anyone is interested....

Monday, November 6th:
*Prelim Hearing @ 1:30pm PT for Teller County – CO – Daniel James Nations (31) – charged with being a felon having weapons illegally; also allegedly found in possession of a hatchet & .22 caliber rifle; additional charges will likely be filed (Tim Watkins murder?). Combined bonds $15K.
In El Paso County arrested & charged with Class 5 Felony Menacing, Class 3 Felony Endangerment & Reckless Endangerment, Trespassing, attempted assault, criminal mischief & failing to register as a sex offender in El Paso County. A hearing was held on Nov. 1st; held on $6.8K bond; next hearing on menacing charges Nov. 29th "Maybe" a POI in Abby & Libby’s case in IND.
I thought TW was killed in El Paso county? Will be interesting to see if judge reduces his bail in these cases.
 
I think maybe something is being lost in translation?
You had posted the guys coworker who drove him was his partner in the killings.

Now, that's different then maybe the killer is a truck driver because you're naming two people.
Co-worker, work colleague same difference imo.
 
I am not able to keep up with this thread most of the time.. can you link me the sheriff's recent comments? TY!!

PS How do we know that KN was not living with DN at Feb 13th?
DN had to check in on 2/14. He told them he slept under a bridge the night before. He said he was homeless.
 
Doesn't appear DN was paying attention when they were teaching calm and directing. At least based on what everyone here has been discussing with regard to waving a hatchet.
And then trying to enter a car and attacking occupant inside.
This is one of the charges in Colorado.
Quite a temper. He goes after people when hes angry.
 
And then trying to enter a car and attacking occupant inside.
This is one of the charges in Colorado.
Quite a temper. He goes after people when hes angry.
Is this charge sealed? I am wondering if this is the choking incident referred to by KN?
 
DN had to check in on 2/14. He told them he slept under a bridge the night before. He said he was homeless.
He also was the subject of a no contact order at one point. Don't know if that has expired or what. KN has said they cannot talk to each other in court so that has to be due to the no contact order IMO.
 
Remember the second press conference? LE did indicate that suspect might also target men.
I felt the cause of death for Abby and Libby prompted him to say that. I was left with the impression LE thought their death was a rage killing. IMO
 
Originally Posted by mtnlites

Someone commented upthread that nobody has been able to say that they are 99% sure that DN isn't BG. I'll say it...I am 99% sure that DN isn't BG. Some of that has to do with the direct lack of evidence (not matching DNA that we are aware of, no connection to Delphi that we are aware of, no placement in Delphi that we are aware of, unknown COD that could tie him to the murders, the fact that I don't think he looks like the sketch or sounds like the recording, etc.) but MOST of it has to do with the information I've gained through research through off-WS sources. (Things that can't be shared here because of TOS.)

If DN turns out to be BG then I'll admit that I was wrong and I'll be thrilled that he's incarcerated and can't do anymore harm.

I agree 100%, and like others here I so wanted for there to be a DN connection, but now believe it is virtually impossible. The DN deal almost turned in to something akin to the early frenzy over RL. DN and KN have no connections to Delphi, and there is no indication eithr have ever been there, even. Like people who are familiar with Delphi, live there, live in Indy, etc., there has to be a reason for someone to want to go there. Family, special event, auction, drug activity, etc. It's not a tourist draw, and there is very little industry/jobs in the community, anymore.

I don't believe I've shared this before here, but I went to Delphi this past Summer.

Part 1

My observations line up with the YT videos done by the nice guy who had bought a motorcycle this past year, and was tooling around on the roads in and around Delphi, the same roads I traveled in my car. Delphi is a very nice small town, some of the scenery along Deer Creek, at creek level, is amazing during the warmer months.

I do not recommend that anyone go there, a few times I wondered if I was being watched, and one specific instance on my way to the cemetery on W 300 N a woman walking her dog along there spotted my vehicle, she definitely noticed me. Anyone not from there (300 N especially) will stick out to people who live along there by the trail. I turned into the cemetery and poked around, some. I'd imagine a lot of folks there are still on edge, and then there are folks who are upset by the tourism caused by the murders, which is understandable.

I'll try to give a quick synopsis of what the general area around the bridge is like, I did not go to the bridge, itself. I wouldn't recommend it, really. The killer (or killers) has/have not been caught, and there has been drug activity (meth lab) along the lower trail area, the trail which leads to the creek just west of the bridge. So it's not just BG I'm a little leery of, or an associate or whatever, my hunch is the Monon High Bridge. By meth lab I mean a small, makeshift one.

It is very quiet along W 300 N, the only loud sounds I heard were from the very busy Norfolk Southern tracks just west of the bridge. They'll blow their horns for the at-grade crossing(s) through town, rather loud as the sound is magnified due to the fact that Delphi kinda sits in a "bowl" earth formation. Otherwise, I heard bugs. CSX owns the bridge, which to a railroad enthusiast like me can be a little confusing. I paced a train just north of Delphi on 25, it appears they're allowed to go roughly 65 MPH. My hunch is not a lot of trains actually stop or move slowly through there. The CSX line was a local track which originated at a switch on the main line, and ended up down around Indy (probably at a rail yard for the MRR back in the day), but now the track just runs a short distance north of Indy. The switch was in Delphi, north side of town, you can see where it was on Google maps.

i drove W 300 N, to N 450 W, which is a very scenic along there, especially the creek crossing at the historic bridge. Looks like a popular fishing spot. This is at one of the bends in the creek, east of the MHB, you cannot see the bridge from there.
 
Is this charge sealed? I am wondering if this is the choking incident referred to by KN?
He attacked someone inside their car in Colorado. That was an additional charge to the one waving a hatchet around.
I think KN did mention him choking her at one time.
 
Part 2.

Let's backtrack a bit. Back at the cemetery, it's roughly 200 or so feet wide, by 700 to maybe 800 feet deep. Most of it could probably be seen from 3 nearby houses the day of the murders. During Summer when I was there, at the back of it is fairly private in a couple of spots. You cannot see the bridge from the cemetery, it is much lower than surrounding lands, private properties, etc. More on this in a minute...

I proceeded down N 450 W, and then west on W 200 N, towards town. There are no indications Delphi is up the road, really. The old railroad right-of-way (RoW) is really easy to miss, it's overgrown, and at the bottom of a little gully, which is under W 200 N. No way that BG came from that direction. N 625 W ends up as a private drive, and it's posted that it's private property by there. The private drive is the one which goes under the SE end of the bridge. There is a gate, according to MSM videos I've seen. I understand the owner of the nice property at the end of that driveway was out-of-town that day.

Keep in mind the roads around there are not paved. It was relatively mild the day of the murders, so driving the county roads would have kicked up dust and gravel. There are properties along N 625 W, too.

I numbered the area described above on this map:

1= intersection of W 200 N and N 625 W

2=Roughly where the private property signs are located, road then becomes the driveway for the residence where noone was home that day.

3=Abandoned RoW for the old CSX/MRR line, it is impassable/overgrown.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • MHB RoW south of bridge.jpg
    MHB RoW south of bridge.jpg
    99.6 KB · Views: 360
I agree 100%, and like others here I so wanted for there to be a DN connection, but now believe it is virtually impossible. The DN deal almost turned in to something akin to the early frenzy over RL. DN and KN have no connections to Delphi, and there is no indication eithr have ever been there, even. Like people who are familiar with Delphi, live there, live in Indy, etc., there has to be a reason for someone to want to go there. Family, special event, auction, drug activity, etc. It's not a tourist draw, and there is very little industry/jobs in the community, anymore.

I don't believe I've shared this before here, but I went to Delphi this past Summer.

Part 1

My observations line up with the YT videos done by the nice guy who had bought a motorcycle this past year, and was tooling around on the roads in and around Delphi, the same roads I traveled in my car. Delphi is a very nice small town, some of the scenery along Deer Creek, at creek level, is amazing during the warmer months.

I do not recommend that anyone go there, a few times I wondered if I was being watched, and one specific instance on my way to the cemetery on W 300 N a woman walking her dog along there spotted my vehicle, she definitely noticed me. Anyone not from there (300 N especially) will stick out to people who live along there by the trail. I turned into the cemetery and poked around, some. I'd imagine a lot of folks there are still on edge, and then there are folks who are upset by the tourism caused by the murders, which is understandable.

I'll try to give a quick synopsis of what the general area around the bridge is like, I did not go to the bridge, itself. I wouldn't recommend it, really. The killer (or killers) has/have not been caught, and there has been drug activity (meth lab) along the lower trail area, the trail which leads to the creek just west of the bridge. So it's not just BG I'm a little leery of, or an associate or whatever, my hunch is the Monon High Bridge. By meth lab I mean a small, makeshift one.

It is very quiet along W 300 N, the only loud sounds I heard were from the very busy Norfolk Southern tracks just west of the bridge. They'll blow their horns for the at-grade crossing(s) through town, rather loud as the sound is magnified due to the fact that Delphi kinda sits in a "bowl" earth formation. Otherwise, I heard bugs. CSX owns the bridge, which to a railroad enthusiast like me can be a little confusing. I paced a train just north of Delphi on 25, it appears they're allowed to go roughly 65 MPH. My hunch is not a lot of trains actually stop or move slowly through there. The CSX line was a local track which originated at a switch on the main line, and ended up down around Indy (probably at a rail yard for the MRR back in the day), but now the track just runs a short distance north of Indy. The switch was in Delphi, north side of town, you can see where it was on Google maps.

i drove W 300 N, to N 450 W, which is a very scenic along there, especially the creek crossing at the historic bridge. Looks like a popular fishing spot. This is at one of the bends in the creek, east of the MHB, you cannot see the bridge from there.
Very interesting report - especially the bit about the meth lab remains. We discussed this a lot before DN and most posters ruled that all out iirc although I was not one of them. Did you photograph that at all?
 
I think they tried to run, one got caught and he coerced the other, angry, the killer just killed them.

I foresee a similar scenario, except I think one was shot, not caught. Guns cover distance and would keep the killers DNA off the victims. I feel LE has no direct DNA evidence, and I can't see how that happens if this is a personal contact crime. MHO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The bridge cannot be seen from the South, either. So we've covered N, S, and E, on the map. The bridge is hidden from sight. I tried accessing the bridge area from Riley park in town, this is impossible, unless someone wants to get very wet. The only way to get near it now is to park at the Freedom Bridge, walk across it, and follow the old railroad RoW trail, which branches off into two trails, one to the bridge, the other to the creek just west of it.

It cannot be seen from any direction, on the lands which are set above (what I call "the lay of the land"), it sets way below some surrounding lands, and then there is the factor of the private properties around there. So the only way the bridge can be seen is if you're right by it, say in the creek cut through there (glacial cut), on one of the private properties, or on the trail leading to the bridge.

This explains perfectly to me why A) RL was befuddled, he's lived there 50 years and never was there a murder there, and B) Locals interviewed right after the murders had no idea the bridge is there, or maybe at the most had only heard about it. Besides, technically it's private property, still owned by CSX.

You have to "know" it's there, It's easy to miss (the sign set back from the road, indicating the blocked off area which was the parking lot (on private land)) on W 300 N, there are no signs for it on S.R. 25, nor are there any signs for it on local roads, and there never have been. You have to know it's there.

I'm back to BG being more local. He's familiar with the bridge and park area, maybe even has been involved in the drug trade around there. JMO
 
Very interesting report - especially the bit about the meth lab remains. We discussed this a lot before DN and most posters ruled that all out iirc although I was not one of them. Did you photograph that at all?

The meth lab I've read from accounts by folks who came across it 2 or 3 years ago.

By "meth lab" it could be just about any configuration of one. I've heard of people using 2L pop bottles to make the stuff. People put them in trunks of cars. I would imagine something off of the lower trail would have had multiple people associated with it, they want the quiet and seclusion the spot affords them when there are leaves on the trees. Pictures I've seen of the lower trail indicate it's fairly densely forested. During Summer you can't even see the bridge from the lowest part of the trail, even though the bridge is mere feet (200-300) away.

Hope this helps folks get a feel for the area.
 
In February, if Libby was running the latest update, it should have been 9.3.5 which came out the previous August. (According to a quick online search, which sounds right. Ten was this past summer and 11 last month.) If she hadn’t updated, it would be an OS prior to 9.3.5.

JMO...
Between the 2 who shot up the office Christmas party in California and the father who was trying to access the last photos taken of his son on his phone (while alive) after his son died (the father even had Touch ID access to his son’s phone, but after an iPhone is powered off and restarted Touch ID won’t work until after you manually type the passcode, which the father didn’t know), I honestly don’t expect Apple to access Libby’s phone data.

It’s a double edged sword respecting people’s privacy. There are third party hackers who could likely get into it, like with the CA couple who killed the people at the Christmas party. Maybe Libby’s family/LE will have to take that route.

I'm sure there are plenty of hackers out there who would crack it, especially if part, or all, of the $232,000 reward money was up for grabs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
104
Guests online
3,896
Total visitors
4,000

Forum statistics

Threads
594,166
Messages
17,999,966
Members
229,329
Latest member
KreepinSavage
Back
Top