Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #1

[deugirtni]

All the Toronto Police had to do was talk to the guy to whom Laura made her last eight phone calls.

I was going to say, but it wouldn't have mattered, because DM would simply have said she was a hooker on drugs and talking about going on a trip, sorry I couldn't be of more help...... but if LE had done checking (but why would they at that point?), and found DM suspicious, imagine - they could have potentially found LB's body before she was incinerated - if only they had searched DM's properties!

 

[ABro]

I agree completely. The Sherman deaths were a really big deal, but even though it was on the radar right from the beginning the police seemed very resistant to investigating it as a double murder. There was no sign of forced entry so they just came to the conclusion that it must be murder suicide. It was the family that really pushed for further investigation. I just thought of their case because we were discussing how some families don’t want police investigating further and some families do. The Sherman case was definitely unique because it at first appeared to be both a murder and a suicide but it just popped into my head because of how strongly the family responded. In the end, I think most people just want the police to do what they need to do to investigate, even if it means inconveniencing grieving family. I think it can be done in a sensitive way, IMO.

The "no forced entry" thing is blown out of proportion by people who want to discredit the police. There were a number of factors pointing at murder suicide including the fact they had an elaborate security system and Honey was beaten up and he wasn't. Also the supposed tensions over the new house.

No matter what happened with the Shermans, it's a very weird situation be it double homicide or murder suicide.

Staged murders are typically carried out by people close to the victims, not Russian assassins or Big Pharma hitmen.

 

[ABro]

I can get it how a coroner/scientist/doctor could deal in percentages.. they do it every day.. ie they will try to rule out the most obvious diagnosis before proceeding further into some less likely illness.. and their knowledge and experience plays a large part in what they do... BUT, if a death is only 60-70% sure to be a suicide, one would HOPE that would prompt further investigation by whichever means are available? Why drop the ball and just call it a suicide, and only one-two days later (body found evening of Nov 29th, body didn't get to the morgue until the wee hours of November 30th, and only one day later, on Dec 1st, the determination was suicide, even though it was only a 60-70% probability)? What was the rush? Why not ask investigators some questions and have them do a bit more investigation.. do a few more tests, etc? Get GSR samples from everyone there that night. Find out where the gun came from for sure. See if the positioning really makes sense. Was the victim even left handed? Talk to the people he last spoke with. Etc.... etc.... etc.... Do people always end up hating their jobs so much that they're just happy to get tasks off of their plates? Just doesn't make sense, and especially when we're talking about a human life, and possible justice. I sure hope there is lots more evidence to suggest murder, because so far, it seems those testifying may *still* believe it was a suicide (other than the one detective)!

He was talking about the balance of probabilities, which is lawyer speak.

Of course, doctors weigh possibilities every time they order a test but they pretty much always order a test if there's a 30/40% chance you have that condition.

It's just beyond weird that he was talking like this was a civil court case, where he was calculating what he needed to win, as opposed to running a few tests when he allegedly thought the possibility of suicide was very high.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

It was said that the housekeeper had left food for WM on his desk.... which room was his desk in?? Wasn't his desk in his bedroom?

I think it was in the hall.

I can’t remember who said it, but didn’t someone say “there was a bowl of food beside WM on his dresser, almost looked as if he was eating something before he died” on the first day of trial I think.

 

[deugirtni]

I can’t remember who said it, but didn’t someone say “there was a bowl of food beside WM on his dresser, almost looked as if he was eating something before he died” on the first day of trial I think.

There was this, but not sure if it is talking about the *same* bowl as the one the housekeeper had left for him?:
Adam Carter
Jun 1 2018 11:21 AM
"Leonard says in his notes, it says Wayne Millard had a bowl next to his bed when he was found, "like he was eating something.""

Adam Carter
Jun 4 2018 3:34 PM
"Millard says he noticed his father's dinner was served on his desk, so the housekeeper was "probably there around 5.""

ETA: Found this from May 31st, so it's looking like for sure the desk, wherever it was, was not in the bedroom:

Lisa Hepfner
‏May 31
"She mostly sat at Wayne's desk at Maple Gate, but she also went in his bedroom to look at photos in his dresser. The house was, "well, it wasn't a ladies house..." she laughs. "It was pretty sparse, but there was furniture I remember from Aunt Dell's.... It wasn't cozy." #Millard"

 

[deugirtni]

There has been no mention yet of JS being at the house on the night WM was discovered... is this still to come??

 

[deugirtni]

I can’t remember who said it, but didn’t someone say “there was a bowl of food beside WM on his dresser, almost looked as if he was eating something before he died” on the first day of trial I think.

How did you get the forum's new format to copy 2 separate posts? TY!!

 

[hopingforjustice]

My daughter is a paramedic. I presented this whole scenario to her. She said that if this was her call, his "presentation" would have asked her to check for pulse (even though pretty much knowing that they wouldn't find one) then immediately turn it over to the coroner. At this point their job is done. They would document the call as such. Their call sheets would not describe scenarios, who was there, etc. It would simply show what they were called for and their treatment to such call. Just their actions and who they turned it over to. She said they in no way would look for guns or evidence in any way shape or form. Their schooling from a forensics officer taught them that when they come upon a situation like this to go "straight in and straight out" and literally advised to do so by the same path ie: so as not to disturb a thing. And to leave the "job" to the investigators. She said she was hounded that their job is not investigating..but to save. If saving is not possible, they must walk away. Just to add a little insight to what may or may not have occurred with the first responders.

 

[deugirtni]

Except the Sherman case was on the radar from Day One and in international headlines. That has a huge effect.

No one had heard of Wayne Millard's death until Dellen was arrested. Even the Millardair team thought he died of a brain aneurysm.

That's a significant difference.

I wonder if the truth had been known amongst all of the people DM told about the death, and if all of WM's family members had been told of the death, period, - how many would have raised red flags then? Seems so unfair that someone could be free to live in the same home, murder their dad, tell police he was depressed and habitual alcoholic with debilitating back issues, tell police his dad had guns in the past, and then tell everyone afterward that it was an aneurysm, if he told them at all. Just seems wrong that one person should have all of that control to say all of those things to all of those people. moo

 

[6degrees]

I can’t remember who said it, but didn’t someone say “there was a bowl of food beside WM on his dresser, almost looked as if he was eating something before he died” on the first day of trial I think.

I mentioned it in a recent post where I was essentially laying out my thoughts on what points to WM not having committed suicide. I recognize that the bowl could have been there for days but if not, who on earth makes a bowl of food and then commits suicide. It seems so vastly unlikely. I can find the quote if you like.

 

[Jasper52]

How did you get the forum's new format to copy 2 separate posts? TY!!

Just click on 'reply' for each post you want to quote and they will be added to your reply. I hope that made sense!

 

[6degrees]

I now see that deugirnti has posted the actual quotes about the bowl of food at the bedside. Thanks!

 

[JuneBug67]

It was said that the housekeeper had left food for WM on his desk.... which room was his desk in?? Wasn't his desk in his bedroom?

From the video tours in Laura's case it looked like the large sunken room in the centre of the house that most people would have used as a living room was instead a room with two or three desks and some metal shelving. Kind of a really utilitarian office sort of thing. My assumption was that is where his desk was.

 

[6degrees]

Yeah, it's bizarre. The coroner is a scientist and he's talking like a lawyer.[/QUOTE
I just can't believe a coroner would make a decision to investigate further themselves/conduct an autopsy based on a LE officer expressing their thought in the moment about a probability of suicide vs homicide. I wonder what goes into the LE person arriving at the percentage. Are they using some sort of algorithm, validated tool? This is fraught with difficulty!........

 

[Kamille]

From the video tours in Laura's case it looked like the large sunken room in the centre of the house that most people would have used as a living room was instead a room with two or three desks and some metal shelving. Kind of a really utilitarian office sort of thing. My assumption was that is where his desk was.

That was my memory of the room with the desks in it as well. It sits just across the hall from the front door.

Here is an old article with some pictures of the house. Just scroll through the 33 pictures in the first link. I'm sure The Mob Reporter on YouTube has many more videos of the interior of the house for those who are curious about where things are as well.

MANDEL: Inside the home of accused killer Dellen Millard

 

[6degrees]

I can get it how a coroner/scientist/doctor could deal in percentages.. they do it every day.. ie they will try to rule out the most obvious diagnosis before proceeding further into some less likely illness.. and their knowledge and experience plays a large part in what they do... BUT, if a death is only 60-70% sure to be a suicide, one would HOPE that would prompt further investigation by whichever means are available? Why drop the ball and just call it a suicide, and only one-two days later (body found evening of Nov 29th, body didn't get to the morgue until the wee hours of November 30th, and only one day later, on Dec 1st, the determination was suicide, even though it was only a 60-70% probability)? What was the rush? Why not ask investigators some questions and have them do a bit more investigation.. do a few more tests, etc? Get GSR samples from everyone there that night. Find out where the gun came from for sure. See if the positioning really makes sense. Was the victim even left handed? Talk to the people he last spoke with. Etc.... etc.... etc.... Do people always end up hating their jobs so much that they're just happy to get tasks off of their plates? Just doesn't make sense, and especially when we're talking about a human life, and possible justice. I sure hope there is lots more evidence to suggest murder, because so far, it seems those testifying may *still* believe it was a suicide (other than the one detective)!

I completely agree with what you've said and sadly my answer to your question is...probably workload...coroners have been cut and cut. And now with MAID (medical assistance in dying) we involve the coroner with every case. You may be surprised how often coroners are involved in patient deaths.....add that up along with other factors that have yet to be described and you have a perfect (unsatisfactory to us) reason why they may seem less than eager to jump in with the offer of an autopsy......But as you said, it is certainly also about the investigators with law enforcement.

 

[6degrees]

I am n Burlington and remember seeing missing posters of Tim Bosma everywhere.

Everywhere....it was shocking....

 

[6degrees]

That was my memory of the room with the desks in it as well. It sits just across the hall from the front door.

Here is an old article with some pictures of the house. Just scroll through the 33 pictures in the first link. I'm sure The Mob Reporter on YouTube has many more videos of the interior of the house for those who are curious about where things are as well.

MANDEL: Inside the home of accused killer Dellen Millard

I really like what the Mob Reporter puts together but I have to turn down the sound...these videos often make me cry. I love architecture and I think about how sad it is that a house like that was used for such horrible things. In his interview, DM clearly quips with pride that he was responsible for the "interior design" of the basement...going for a club look. I think the detective was asking about the purpose of the spare rooms (when he corrected her and said there was only one bedroom in the basement) I think with the potential thought that maybe some prostitution may be happening. Just a thought.

 

[6degrees]

There has been no mention yet of JS being at the house on the night WM was discovered... is this still to come??

ABro is a reliable source and she has suggested that what we've heard about Jen Spafford being there is accurate. My sense is that we'll hear about it when MB testifies in the coming weeks.

 

[bcgirl]

That was my memory of the room with the desks in it as well. It sits just across the hall from the front door.

Here is an old article with some pictures of the house. Just scroll through the 33 pictures in the first link. I'm sure The Mob Reporter on YouTube has many more videos of the interior of the house for those who are curious about where things are as well.

MANDEL: Inside the home of accused killer Dellen Millard

Thank you for posting the pictures. Just scrolled thru and wow.......2 more lululemon bags.....at 1:34 and 1:43. The red one similar to the one in WM's bedroom with the gun "on it" is very similar to the one at 1:34. I find it odd that it would end up in WM's room.