Seaching for Anna - #2

[Dr. Doogie]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

 

[Annasmom]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Besides which, there was no baby girl when the two Georges met. GB's initial cultivation of GW was in order to get personalized medical care for Margaret; later it became a guru-student relationship and ultimately a financial support issue.

That is true - Anna was not born in August of 1967 when Margaret died.

 

[Annasmom]

You ready for my latest theory? Okay, here it goes. This is it for today. George (age 30) & Margaret Brody (age 25) in PA in the 1920's could not have a child. They abduct a little girl born in 1917. They take her to SF not to get caught. They re-name her Margaret and say she's a niece, (or something) and they are caring for her, but don't have to claim her as a dependant. Wife dies and he somehow alters her death certificate...(or she leaves him because he's treating MK like more of a "lover" and chages her name, get re-married... )George is devastated after the loss of his "abducted -daughter/lover" and moves in on Waters, knowing he has a young baby girl. Says she's a reincarnation of his beloved Margaret. Talks Waters into taking her (The Plan) but Anna does not respond to his, quote: "Instantaneous Everlasting Attraction". He feels betrayed at her non-compliance, and finds her a new family. And the rest is anyone's guess...hopefully "C", but I have my theories on that as well.

I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley. Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met. The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.) GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Medusa, I didn't mean to sound snippy. It's just that you'd hate to think of someone getting away with something like stealing a child from her family. Thanks for your thoughts and your input.

Oh no,I didn't think you sounded snippy at all. I am glad to know it as someone told me not long ago there was a stat of lim on EVERYTHING but murder and that is just so wrong. I was glad to learn I had been told incorrectly on that! Even if I don't post much, you, your family and Anna are always in my prayers. I hope that there is a resolution soon!!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I can't really follow this line of thinking. There was no third person on the scene when George and Margaret were renting the apartment from Matt in the Noe Valley.

This is because she (MB) is already gone by then


Waters had no baby girl when the two Georges met.

But he knew there was about to be a new baby


The statement about "reincarnation" was a bare mention and was made when Anna was several months old (but I was already pregnant when Margaret Kukoda died, and even people who believe in reincarnation don't claim that one soul can inhabit two bodies at once.)

Brody was obviously crazy, If he said Anna was a reincarnation at any time, he had his own theory on reincarnation

GB showed very little interest in Anna, apart from his usual power trip of trying to influence her life and the lives of those in her family.[/quote]

True...or is it?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Another couple of quick thoughts about the above theory: the transfer to another family would have had to have occured almost immediately since the two Georges must have figured that they would be suspects in Anna's disappearance, and the series of events required to implement this plan would have had to have taken almost six years to come to fruitition (August 1967 until January 1973) which seems unlikely.

I don't think it was an instant thing. First he had to take Waters away from his wife, then take the child away from the wife.

Didn't Brody & Waters leave the area for several days a week or so after Annas dissaperance? They also had another room rented somewhere? They could have kept her in the "other room" for several days. And from what has been posted, they never were suspects. LE never really gave them a second thought. Joe Ford was the only one who ever really investigated them...

Maybe Waters was a hard sell on the abduction. It took Brody a lot of brain washing.

 

[RobinH]

Is it possible C could contact the schools she attended to see if they kept copies of the group class photos through the years or perhaps they took individual photos. Maybe even year books or year books from her teen years that might be able to be age progressed with Anna? How about any childhood friends that she attended birthday parties with or went on trips with? Was she in brownies, girl scouts, ballet, etc...There have got to be pictures of her from outside sources.

BTW, I am sick from eating too many girl scout cookies! They are so good!

Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Message:
I am trying to locate an elementary school photo for my friend who had 2 house fires when she was younger and has no pictures of herself. I am looking for photos of (C's Name) who may have attended (School Name) in the years 1973 through 1978 and would have been in K-5th grade at the time. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Answer:
Thank you for contacting us. Your request is being forwarded to your local Lifetouch office. The local office will be in contact with you.
Message:
Im sorry, we only hold our negatives for one year!
My next email to them:
Do you keep class pictures or yearbooks longer? Where might I be able to find a photo of her during her school years?

Reply:
No, I am sorry!

Are there any other suggestions? I really don't know where else to turn for photos of her.

I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

 

[RobinH]

I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

Checking back into prior posts, this is an avenue that I researched extensively awhile back, including creating an account with friendsters, contacting all the schools that she may have attended, and exhausting all potential family that I know of. All of the schools informed me that they do not keep photos, but send them with her file to the next school, and did not even have class books. When I got to the school that she last attended, I was told that all of those photos were destroyed, and all they kept was a transcript of her grades.

 

[okietexan]

I wonder if the school itself maintains a record of class photos? In the Zodiac Killer case, one of the main suspects was a teacher in the Sonora, CA area in the mid-sixties and the researchers there were able to locate a class photo (including the teacher/suspect) in the schools archives.

I wonder if "C" remembers any of her elementary teacher's names? I taught for many years, and I have every class photo ever taken of my classes. If there was a special teacher that maybe she could locate, that teacher might have photos. I know where I taught, teachers received their class picture free every year. Just a thought.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Unfortunately, her memory of events (such as school or teacher's names) is very sketchy. It is this very lack of memories, however, that makes "C" such a viable candidate for being Anna.

Just in the last couple of days, she was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).

Without engaging in vulgar speculation as to "why", it is clear that a certain period of time in C's childhood has been blocked out of her memories (even seemingly innocent memories). However, with direct questions concerning specifics, often some of those details have resurfaced. Some point to her being Anna, some do not correspond with anything that we can relate to Anna.

We are trying to be respectful of C's "personal space" (those things that she chooses to remember and those that she chooses to forget), but at the same time, seek to find information that will be helpful in evaluating the possible match. C has shown great courage in bringing those memories to the surface that something has caused to be submerged. I am grateful that C has been willing to explore those areas of missing memories for us.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

... The only immediate flaw that I can think of is that there appears to be paperwork for a legitimate Margaret Kukoda from PA...

Is this paperwork the census records from 1930 or something from the Box? Is there anything other than that Census record . (In which the birth dates don't match up) that places Brody's MK in PA?

 

[Gina_M]

1) has anyone near UCLA looked into the umpteen boxes available from synanon? since the picture in question is under "school: I might start with that box..... if I were near LA. I noticed n

GinaM has volunteered to do this research. She said she has been very busy but will get to it soon. Maybe someone should put together a list of things for her to look for when she goes. You're right Doogie, it was over in the Rose thread. Someof the details/information in these 2 threads are starting to run together in my mind:waitasec:

Hi Shadow, and everyone,

Finally I have some free time and I can get back to Anna's case! I don't know much about Synanon, other than what I've gleaned in the posts I've skimmed through - there is a connection to Rose Cole, a possible connection to Anna, and a bunch of their info is archived at the UCLA library? If someone could give me a summary of pertinent info or point me in the right direction that would be great. I live about an hour's drive from L.A. so I will definitely head up there and check it out.

ETA: Found this link:

http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=tf9k4009h9&query=rose&brand=default&submit.x=8&submit.y=22

Synanon Foundation Records, ca. 1956-1987
564 boxes (282 linear ft.)
118 cartons (59 linear ft.)
32 boxes
Stored off-site at SRLF. Advance notice is required for access to the collection. Please contact the UCLA Library, Department of Special Collections Reference Desk for paging information.

Whoa...that's a lot of boxes! And it looks like I have to call in advance and make an appointment. Julessleuther, or anyone else who'd like to volunteer, any help would be appreciated

 

[Cubby]

Just in the last couple of days, she was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).

This sounds very positive. Of course the details are not our business, and like any good investigation should not be shared publically where anyone has access to viewing those details. Kudos to RobinH and C for all their help with this.

As for more ideas about finding childhood pictures. The idea of possibly locating former teachers is excellent. what about former classmates? Especially one's where C may have attened birthday parties. Was she ever in any community activities which might have pictures? Maybe the local newspaper to inquire if they have any old pictures in their archives from any school activities. The library might have some. Our library keeps copies of HS yearbooks. I think our local police station also has some copies as well. Was C ever in Brownies or Camp Fire girls, any kind of sports which the grade school offered? Anything along those lines?

On another note, does Annasmom happen to have an old clear picture including Anna's ears? If we ( or she ) could obtain a clear picture of the same ear from C comparison might help. Especially since ears are so unique as we've discussed. Sure, C might think we are off our rocker requesting that info...... ( I can only imagine ) but it would help. I fully believe a picture like this would help narrow things prior to any DNA testing.

 

[Gina_M]

It looks as though one may need a UCLA library card to view the Synanon collection.

http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/special/scweb/

For external users, who are not connected to UCLA, and are not students or teachers at any other school in CA, the charge for a library card is $100 per year. At least that's my interpretation of the info.

Next step: find someone who already has a UCLA library card!

 

[Annasmom]

On another note, does Annasmom happen to have an old clear picture including Anna's ears? If we ( or she ) could obtain a clear picture of the same ear from C comparison might help. Especially since ears are so unique as we've discussed. Sure, C might think we are off our rocker requesting that info...... ( I can only imagine ) but it would help. I fully believe a picture like this would help narrow things prior to any DNA testing.

Cubby, our contact with C has sent us clear pictures of her ears, and we have compared them with clear pictures of Anna's ears. They are similar. Do you recall where in the Forum we were talking about ear comparisons? I remember the discussion, but not where it occurred.

 

[InterestedNHelping]

GinaM, just a thought here...I once needed an antique book that only resided in a library in Mississippi, and I am in Calif...I filed a request that it could be sent to my library for check out, then they return it to it's place of origin. It might save the money if one library gets it from another. Is that possible with this collection? Some things cannot be loaned out, but this might work for you if it can be loaned to your library. Good luck!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Just in the last couple of days, (C) was asked if she has any memories about a certain item. Her first response was no, then she recalled a memory of that item - including unique details that have never been mentioned here or in Annasmom's manuscript (sorry, I am being purposely vague here).

Today, C was asked for additional details about this item and came up with further details that match what Anna would have remembered.

This is getting real exciting...

:woohoo:

 

[Cubby]

Cubby, our contact with C has sent us clear pictures of her ears, and we have compared them with clear pictures of Anna's ears. They are similar. Do you recall where in the Forum we were talking about ear comparisons? I remember the discussion, but not where it occurred.

I recall the ears being discussed twice. Most recently within this thread starting with post #57. I can't recall where the previous discussion was posted. I thought it was around the two wolgast boxers, but couldn't find it there.....

If it's not too much to ask, is it possible to post the ear pics? If no, I understand.