Identified! ID - Dubois, WhtMale Skeletal UP13310, Buffalo Cave, Aug 1979 - 1870-1916 Joseph Henry Loveless

[evilwise]

Wow fantastic, Alice. I wonder if the neighbors heard Henry arguing or if they just heard someone arguing at the campsite. I read in another source that Agnes had been at a dance earlier that night, which seems strange and a potential source of conflict both within and without the marriage. It also bears note that Henry was the child of Mormon pioneers and almost certainly a polygamist, at least philosophically (he abandoned his first wife). Apparently polygamy makes DNA especially complex too.

It does seem that the most simple chain of events is a domestic dispute that escalated to murder and I can't blame law enforcement for jumping to that conclusion and over the decades this becoming the presumed narrative with no further evidence. But now we have a matching cause of death - decapitation was not a common fate even in the old west - as well as a body well hidden, one might even say "expertly"

 

[evilwise]

On deeper reflection... How did anyone know that he escaped using a saw hidden in his shoe? They sure as hell didn't check the security tapes.

I guess it's possible he had to tear his shoe apart and he left behind some evidence of the mechanism

It's also possible a crooked jailer sold him out to his killer and concocted a story including that detail.

 

[AliceInPain]

sbm

On deeper reflection... How did anyone know that he escaped using a saw hidden in his shoe?

My guess is he shared a cell with one or several others who witnessed it. jmo.

Here is the book that writes about Agnes murder and has the Wanted poster.
Sounds like he was known to neighbours as Cairns.

It's based on an article from Teton Peak Chronichle, "The Axe Killer," dated May 11 1916.

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

If this hasn't been his first escape from jail, he may of used the same means in prior escapes so they assume he did the same again....

What a twist of irony it would be if the saw he used to escape ended up being the saw used to dismember him...

But on same note you would think they would of checked him over good for a saw...unless he never truly escaped jail, and it was the law that decided to take justice in their own hands and said he "escaped"...

On deeper reflection... How did anyone know that he escaped using a saw hidden in his shoe? They sure as hell didn't check the security tapes.

 

[AliceInPain]

The most thorough article on the murder I found:
"Under Arrest on Murder Charge"

• The couple both used aliases (Mrs Smith and Walter Currans) and had only lived in Dubois for a short time.
• As a suspected bootlegger she had been under surveillance for some time, and counterfeit money was found in her possession.
• Agnes and her eight year old son went to a dance on the evening of Friday May 5 until 2 a. m. Later that night the boy found his mother at home dying. Authorities were summoned by neighbours and immediately started searching for JH.
• JH was arrested early morning Sunday May 7 for... "beating out his wife's brains. Her death resulted after 50 hours of intense agony."
• The little boy told police "Papa killed a man at Pebble," leading police to think JH was the killer of wealthy rancher J.C. Smith a year earlier.

I tried finding manner of death of this J.C. Smith but found nothing.
I'm still not convinced this guy killed his wife. They were both criminals, both using aliases, shady people would have had reason to kill her too I'm sure. Could also have been retaliation for the murder of the Pebble guy.

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

The most thorough article on the murder I found:

• JH was arrested early morning Sunday May 7 for... "beating out his wife's brains. Her death resulted after 50 hours of intense agony."
• The little boy told police "Papa killed a man at Pebble," leading police to think JH was the killer of wealthy rancher J.C. Smith a year earlier.

.

I wonder if during that 50 hours she was able to point the finger at her husband? It doesn't say what state she was in when she was found, but "intense agony" makes me believe she was somewhat conscious and not in a coma type state....and if she survived 50 hours it makes me question the other article stating that her head was almost severed off.

 

[faithx]

• The little boy told police "Papa killed a man at Pebble," leading police to think JH was the killer of wealthy rancher J.C. Smith a year earlier.

I tried finding manner of death of this J.C. Smith but found nothing.

I believe his full name is Joseph Charles/Choules Smith (1863-1915). He died on June 7, 1915 in Pebble, Idaho. I've found a letter written by his daughter.

Here is an excerpt detailing her father's death:

Early in June of 1915 I got call from Albert one morning saying my father was dead. I felt like the earth had dropped out from under me. It wasn't until we got over to Mother's and Bishop Hyer was there that he told me that father had been murdered. He had been shot six times. Someone came into the ranch house at Pebble after he had gone to bed and had gone into his room and killed him. He was alone in the house at the time. Albert and Ada had been living at the ranch house but they were down in Utah waiting for their first baby to come. Albert was in Lewiston and Ada in Logan. Norval was at the ranch but was sleeping in the bunk house so father was alone at the time. When it got time to get up, Norval wondered why father hadn't come to call him so he went in the house to see and found him dead. It was too dark, still to see just what had happened but he could tell that it was something awful so he went across the river and got Emile (Sadie's husband) and they went back and found what had occurred during the night.

His body was sent to Pocatello for embalming and then shipped home by train for burial. The night they were preparing his for burial, Uncle High Karren came down and said he felt impressed to come and help dress him in his temple clothes to see that all was in order. Uncle High was a temple worker at that time. When father was all dressed, Uncle High came and asked me come and comb his hair. I had never touched a dead person and I was just horrified at the thought. But then I decided that since he had asked me, the least I could do was to try. So I took the comb they offered and as soon as I touched my father the sweetest feeling I have ever experienced came over me. I felt that my father's spirit was there and he was very pleased at the service I was giving. I felt that all was well with him. I have never been afraid to touch a dead body since.

Mother hired a private detective from Salt Lake to Pebble and find out who was responsible for that terrible deed. They never did find enough evidence to convict anybody so after a few months the case was dropped, at least as far as the civil authorities were concerned but for the family it will never be erased.

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

I believe his full name is Joseph Charles/Choules Smith (1863-1915). He died on June 7, 1915 in Pebble, Idaho. I've found a letter written by his daughter.

Here is an excerpt detailing her father's death:

Early in June of 1915 I got call from Albert one morning saying my father was dead. I felt like the earth had dropped out from under me. It wasn't until we got over to Mother's and Bishop Hyer was there that he told me that father had been murdered. He had been shot six times. Someone came into the ranch house at Pebble after he had gone to bed and had gone into his room and killed him. He was alone in the house at the time. Albert and Ada had been living at the ranch house but they were down in Utah waiting for their first baby to come. Albert was in Lewiston and Ada in Logan. Norval was at the ranch but was sleeping in the bunk house so father was alone at the time. When it got time to get up, Norval wondered why father hadn't come to call him so he went in the house to see and found him dead. It was too dark, still to see just what had happened but he could tell that it was something awful so he went across the river and got Emile (Sadie's husband) and they went back and found what had occurred during the night.

Ironically, Ada was one of the aliases that Agnes went by (Ada Smith). Don't believe it would be them because they would of already had children at this time, but still something to make you go hmm...

 

[evilwise]

Story of the Child.
On Friday night Mrs. Smith and her
little son, eight years old, went to a
dance, where they remained until near
ly 2 o'clock... After the dance Mrs. Smith
and another woman went to a hotel and
ate some cake and the little boy went
home. Mrs. Smith left the hotel,
about an hour the little boy returned
and told that his mother was lying on
the floor asleep, and snoring heavily.
The hotel man gave him some matches,
and he returned home -where he found
that his mother wag dying. His father
was not there.

What an odd sequence of events. A real party lifestyle. Interesting that the kid voluntarily implicated Henry in the Smith murder. More information on that family could probably be quite fascinating. Smells like the kind of people who could have literally put a price on a man's head, above the law.

 

[faithx]

Ironically, Ada was one of the aliases that Agnes went by (Ada Smith). Don't believe it would be them because they would of already had children at this time, but still something to make you go hmm...

Albert was Joseph Smith's son and Ada was his wife.

This FamilySearch page on Joseph Smith has more information.

Section of the Lava Hot Springs book by B. Fay Byington

Newspaper article

Picture of Joseph Smith

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

Thank you for that! I wonder if Joseph had any connection to that family, or if it was just random.

Albert was Joseph Smith's son and Ada was his wife.

This FamilySearch page on Joseph Smith has more information.

Section of the Lava Hot Springs book by B. Fay Byington

Newspaper article

Picture of Joseph Smith

 

[TmmEye]

Story of the Child.
On Friday night Mrs. Smith and her
little son, eight years old, went to a
dance, where they remained until near
ly 2 o'clock... After the dance Mrs. Smith
and another woman went to a hotel and
ate some cake and the little boy went
home. Mrs. Smith left the hotel,
about an hour the little boy returned
and told that his mother was lying on
the floor asleep, and snoring heavily.
The hotel man gave him some matches,
and he returned home -where he found
that his mother wag dying. His father
was not there.

What an odd sequence of events. A real party lifestyle. Interesting that the kid voluntarily implicated Henry in the Smith murder. More information on that family could probably be quite fascinating. Smells like the kind of people who could have literally put a price on a man's head, above the law.

If you want to reference who the children are by age, here’s the list:

• Claude, born 1905
• Edison (whom was the child at the dance), born 1908
• Thomas, born 1910
• Bernice (his second daughter), born 1913

 

[TmmEye]

The most thorough article on the murder I found:
"Under Arrest on Murder Charge"

• The couple both used aliases (Mrs Smith and Walter Currans) and had only lived in Dubois for a short time.
• As a suspected bootlegger she had been under surveillance for some time, and counterfeit money was found in her possession.
• Agnes and her eight year old son went to a dance on the evening of Friday May 5 until 2 a. m. Later that night the boy found his mother at home dying. Authorities were summoned by neighbours and immediately started searching for JH.
• JH was arrested early morning Sunday May 7 for... "beating out his wife's brains. Her death resulted after 50 hours of intense agony."
• The little boy told police "Papa killed a man at Pebble," leading police to think JH was the killer of wealthy rancher J.C. Smith a year earlier.

I tried finding manner of death of this J.C. Smith but found nothing.
I'm still not convinced this guy killed his wife. They were both criminals, both using aliases, shady people would have had reason to kill her too I'm sure. Could also have been retaliation for the murder of the Pebble guy.

So he probably killed him too....

 

[sloane7777]

This case really makes me wonder how many other Does have a much shorter PMI estimate than the actual year of death.

Me too , I take those with a grain of salt though they seem to often be wrong .

 

[musicaljoke]

From the link:
“‘It's blown everyone's minds,’ [Lee] Bingham Redgrave, [a forensic genealogist with DNA Doe Project], said of the investigation. ‘The really cool thing, though, is that his wanted poster from his last escape is described as wearing the same clothing that he was found in, so that leads us to put his death date at likely 1916.’” (BBM)

Pretty cool, indeed. What he did to his family, not so much. MOO

With some clothing evidence how could they get the dates so wrong? There may have been buttons, or fasteners, fabric types, textile composition, weaves, clothing styles, seam and sewing techniques, dyes, finishes, etc. that would give hints about the era of the remains.

 

[TmmEye]

I don’t think that would’ve been helpful because this photo shows the sweater

 

[TmmEye]

 

[crazyrabbitlady]

Didn't the Sheriff originally say he thought it was a "gambler" from 60 years ago? Wonder if that came from old tales told down generations in the town?

I don’t think that would’ve been helpful because this photo shows the sweater

View attachment 223302

 

[AliceInPain]

The man arrested for the murder of Pebble rancher Smith was called Ed Dunn, or Fred Lund.

Some more on "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" (Agnes and JH), says he was suspected of the murder because he went missing:
"Woman Murdered at Dubois"

Here JH told police he'd been heading north to get booze for Agnes to sell in Dubois, and said he thought her ex-husband murdered her.

Agnes ex-husband was William Glenn, son of attorney and politician Thomas Louis Glenn.

 

[TmmEye]

Here are the (updated) dates of his crimes and arrests:

March 20, 1914 - Arrested for Bootlegging in Burley, ID

December 11, 1914 - Arrested for Bootlegging in Burley, ID

June 6-7, 1915 - Possibly murders J.S. Smith in Pocatello, ID

March 2, 1916 - Stops a train and saws the bars on the train to avoid going to jail

May 5, 1916 - Allegedly murders his wife with an ax

May 7, 1916 - Arrested for Agnes’s murder

May 18, 1916 - Escapes the St. Anthony Jail by using a saw in his boot