Breaking and entering a home is a crime. She didn't live there or own it. A dead body had been reported. Responding LE can't take the chance. That's why they handcuffed JW.
JMO
MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4
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Yes. I agree there may not have been a door or at least there was no locked door. But AM couldn't have necessarily known that (unless houses in that area are routinely built without basement doors & I doubt that. All basements are not finished basements.) So it seems an odd choice to break in that way. I doubt AM had studied those real estate pictures. And if she'd never been to the house OR didn't know it pretty well, breaking in through the basement window, a window that is high above the basement floor so there's quite a drop, seems an odd choice. She could have encountered a locked door between the basement and the rest of the house and then been stuck in the basement. She wouldn't have been able to get out the way she came in given the window height or at least not easily. And she likely could see through the window to know it was high up before she broke in.
I don't know if we ever satisfactorily resolved where the basement window is ...if it's on the front of the house in a well or on the side we can't see. Preferring to go in on the side might make sense because presumably she wouldn't have wanted neighbors to see her breaking in and call police. (She hadn't called them herself for whatever reason.) So if the basement window is on the side maybe that's why she chose it. Otherwise breaking a pane in a big front window and reaching in to unlock it if necessary would seem more logical. Even going in through the big laundry window near the front door...But maybe she was worried about neighbors. MOO
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December
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You wouldn't have necessarily known there was anyone in the backyard. I mean, i certainly would not have thought so. Plus, the fence is pretty high.
We now know that's where they were, but it's a weird place for them to be which is probably why this case has gotten so much attention. If i was looking for them, i would expect them to be indoors.
ETA: it's possible AM had been in the house before or had an idea of its layout. Maybe JW threw a party (at any point since he lived there) and a lot of people came and she was one but didn't really meet him. Maybe she had been in the house before he even lived there or maybe some of the houses in that neighborhood have similar floorplans.
I guess if she got stuck... She had her phone, she could have called someone to get her out. I agree, she could have faced obstacles. It's possible she just took a chance.
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I would have expected them to be indoors if they were there too. But I'd have thought the back door could be unlocked especially given there was a fence. So I'd want to try all the doors I could before breaking a window. And, as I've said in other posts, I doubt I'd have chosen a basement window to go in. I'd not expect them to be in the basement either. And if the house was unfamiliar, I'd not be sure I could access the main house from the basement. MOO
Me too. In fact, I would have assumed that the back door was unlocked due to the fence. My back door is never locked, nor are any of the sliding doors but then again my front door is rarely locked. That fence loooks to be made out of standard panels purchased at any home improvement store and would be only 6 feet tall (per code).
We will most likely never know her thought process regarding her entry.
I wonder how different a dead frozen body would look in regards to just a regular dead body. I know if I put a fresh turkey or roast into the freezer it looks the same after frozen, just hard to the touch.
I would definitely break in. Jmo.
Yes.
We don't know exactly where the chair was. IF it wasn't entirely under the porch roof, there likely would have been some snow on the body. We also don't know how well lit the back area was. There does appear to be a light fixture fairly high up on the back wall of the house but I don't know if it was one that came in automatically. (I'd hope not because it looks like it would light up a fairly wide area including the neighbors' yards.) There must have been some light though to spot the body after dark through a window IF that's what happened. We don't know AM's thought processes nor do we know for sure what she did and saw. Most of the accounts come from her two friends who probably weren't there initially. (Three people likely could have figured out how to get over that fence IMO.)
MOO
LadyL
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I'm aware it's a crime. And yet, we didn't see her in handcuffs. Why would that be?
girlhasnoname
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<modsnip: off topic>
I don't believe any one of those 4/5 men thought 3 of them would be dead at the end of a football watch party.
JMO
I don't believe any one of those 4/5 men thought 3 of them would be dead at the end of a football watch party.
JMO
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10ofRods
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Which leads me to believe she did use FindMy app, which would show a blue dot on a map at the last known ping from her BF's phone. That blue dot would drive me crazy. If I take my phone in the backyard, it shows a map with the imprint of my house and shows the blue dot outside.
When she was knocking, she had to be panicking, as no one came to the door. Her BF's phone must surely have been marked as "offline" by that point in time.
Someone posted a picture with what clearly looked like a well for a window on the side of the house (left side, looking from the street - very near the gate). I wouldn't be able to climb that gate, myself (I could maybe get back over it, given its construction, but I sure couldn't climb it). Maybe she tried and tried to hop the gate, then came up with her basement window idea. it's true she could have gotten herself trapped in the basement, but if she had then called LE and explained she was trapped and what was going on, they would have come.
I think she knew her BF wasn't still partying there, and for sure she knew he had not come home as planned - and she knew he wouldn't just leave his phone in the backyard of that house (or even in the house). She could see the car in which he arrived still parked outside! Her mind was likely racing.
I think our willingness to call police in these instances is really rooted in past experiences with police, or knowledge of police. I taught for 10 year years at a Sheriff's Academy (POST), and learned that many policemen themselves would not call police unless they absolutely had to. This included managers and longterm deputies.
What I would probably do, at this point in my life, if faced with a similar circumstance is call the police non-emergency number, which I do have in my phone. I'd explain and ask for help. I've learned that if a call is transferred to the main response line from inside, it gets a different response.
Personally, I believe that AM might have developed her own ideas about what was going on and felt a true sense of urgency. I think she had a strong hunch that the situation was very bad.
IMO.
<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped><modsnip: off topic>
I don't believe any one of those 4/5 men thought 3 of them would be dead at the end of a football watch party.
JMO
My guess is these men were probably after a coke high. But some people taking adulterated drugs have turned to street drugs because of the clamp down on legal drugs. Even people with cancer can't always get what they need these days.
Supposedly the toxicology tests haven't been fully completed yet. When they are, will it be possible to know how long each drug (cocaine, THC, & fentanyl) was in their systems in say, the 10 hours before they died?
MOO
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Maybe she tracked his phone. But if I were her and I had the ability to track my missing boyfriend's phone, I would have done it before Tues night. And if I knew it was in the backyard at JW's and it hadn't moved since very early Monday am (assuming it was there-- somebody's jacket and backpack were inside but those didn't move either presumably) I would have done something sooner than Tues night. Much sooner. So that makes phone tracking less likely to me. MOO
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Fiancee. Not Cuffed? Not Arrested?
Why did we not SEE Fiancee in CUFFS?
1. Altho we/gen. public did not SEE her in CUFFS, does not mean that LE did not cuff her. Means MSM & soc media, & neighbors' surv system cams or Ring type cams do not have VID or still pix showing Fiancee in cuffs, or conceivably one of above has vid of her in cuffs but has not RELEASED it (yet). Doubtful, imo.
1a. Conceivably LE body-worn cam or DASH CAM recorded her in cuffs. If so, imo LE is not likely to publicly release while investigation is open.
2. After verifying existense of a dead body at scene, conceivably LE assessed Fiancee as a compliant witness (re having seen a dead body) and placed her in patrol car to detain her, but not cuff her.
3. Maybe LE did not cuff her at all, not at scene, not later. IDK.
IF ^ post is asking why Fiancee was not ARRESTED.
1. In some circumstances LEs have a lot of discretion.
LE does not and cannot make an arrest on every crime they suspect, not even if a person tells LE of their own actions which are a crime.
And IF at the scene LE asks the person (like JW, considered a victim to the B & E who would be a complaining witness), IF he wants to press charges, and IF he tells LE no, an arrest may not be made. Not saying this is what happened. Maybe LE did not mention B & E. IDK.
2. At the scene Tuesday night, more conceivable imo, is that LE (either consciously or unconsciously) BALANCED the importance of dealing w the three dead bodies there (possibly homicides?) against a breaking & entering arrest and decided to focus on the bodies.
And then a possible B & E arrest went by the wayside. IDK.
@LadyL IDK why not but thought of some possibilities.
Why did we not SEE Fiancee in CUFFS?
1. Altho we/gen. public did not SEE her in CUFFS, does not mean that LE did not cuff her. Means MSM & soc media, & neighbors' surv system cams or Ring type cams do not have VID or still pix showing Fiancee in cuffs, or conceivably one of above has vid of her in cuffs but has not RELEASED it (yet). Doubtful, imo.
1a. Conceivably LE body-worn cam or DASH CAM recorded her in cuffs. If so, imo LE is not likely to publicly release while investigation is open.
2. After verifying existense of a dead body at scene, conceivably LE assessed Fiancee as a compliant witness (re having seen a dead body) and placed her in patrol car to detain her, but not cuff her.
3. Maybe LE did not cuff her at all, not at scene, not later. IDK.
IF ^ post is asking why Fiancee was not ARRESTED.
1. In some circumstances LEs have a lot of discretion.
LE does not and cannot make an arrest on every crime they suspect, not even if a person tells LE of their own actions which are a crime.
And IF at the scene LE asks the person (like JW, considered a victim to the B & E who would be a complaining witness), IF he wants to press charges, and IF he tells LE no, an arrest may not be made. Not saying this is what happened. Maybe LE did not mention B & E. IDK.
2. At the scene Tuesday night, more conceivable imo, is that LE (either consciously or unconsciously) BALANCED the importance of dealing w the three dead bodies there (possibly homicides?) against a breaking & entering arrest and decided to focus on the bodies.
And then a possible B & E arrest went by the wayside. IDK.
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<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
And I just don't think anyone would watch a dot on a map representing a stationary phone belonging to a missing person for well over 24 hours and not do something. Maybe that something wouldn't involve police but do something. Because she didn't go to the house until Tues night (at least that's what we've been told), I find it hard to believe she knew exactly where the phone was and had been for nearly 2 days. MOO
And I just don't think anyone would watch a dot on a map representing a stationary phone belonging to a missing person for well over 24 hours and not do something. Maybe that something wouldn't involve police but do something. Because she didn't go to the house until Tues night (at least that's what we've been told), I find it hard to believe she knew exactly where the phone was and had been for nearly 2 days. MOO
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I have to be honest, I'm very surprised by all the people who wouldn't break in. I'd have a credit card in that door slot so fast and be popped and in before a wine glass could have been picked up I don't care about a breaking and entering charge, BUT in 14 years my partner has never not come home or been home when he said he was going to be and I've been to jail (for a day, I didn't like it but I could survive a day for a B&E charge until it got worked out)
10ofRods
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Well, perhaps she had. One of her friends and husband had gone over earlier on Tuesday. She says she tried calling and texting before that.
If it was an iPhone, it probably didn't stop pinging until Tuesday morning (mine can go 48 hours easily). If she thought he was sleeping it off at a friend's house, she might have waited to hear from him. I agree that if my SO didn't come home by Monday night, I'd have been activated. However, many people have much more party-oriented relationships. I do believe MSM reported that AM was already worried on Monday night.
It's possible she didn't now about FindMy until she started brainstorming with her various friends and family members. I can't remember when she got in touch with 5th guy.
I must not be understanding how that app works. Can someone using it find the location of anyone's phone? No prior set up needed?
If the phone app showed the phone in the house I guess she could have thought he was sleeping it off all day Monday. If she knew it was in the backyard though....
MOO
KMouse
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I know my husband and know what he is like socially (2-3 beer guy) and if he isn't messaging me then something is weird. If I didn't hear from him I would have gone to where he was because I would have been worried something happened such as a fall or a car accident. We don't track each other's phones but we tell each other where we are going and often message each other and let the other know when we are leaving. If nobody answered the door I would have thought it was odd and thought they drank too much and passed out. I would have pounded on the door and then the windows. I would be mad. I would never think he had been doing drugs and overdosed. I would probably go home mad to wait it out but then when morning came I would start to really worry then go back and do the same thing. I can't say when I would involve the police or if I would even think of breaking in because it's a hypothetical question. If anything I would worry it was carbon monoxide poisoning inside the house or something.
10ofRods
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Only if you're on the same plan OR have their sign-in for Apple. Many (most?) couples share a phone plan and even an apple ID.
People tend to try and believe ordinary explanations for behavior such as "SO isn't answering phone." I would tell myself that SO had forgotten his phone, was probably at one of the trio of friend's houses, and sleeping it off. But, by Monday night, I'd be calling everyone and would have found out that none of the three had returned home.
As for the FindMy app, some people are on plans with their parents, so it might be necessary to contact them.
OTOH, perhaps no app at all was used and it was only the words of 5th Guy who led AM to JW's door.
We also don't know this couple's relationship (or even if they actually lived together).
IMO.
Curiousobserver
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To add to your answer:
You can voluntarily share your location with anyone in Messages, by sharing the same apple ID, by sharing your apple ID with them, or by sharing your location through Family Share.
I can see my entire family through Family Share even though we do not share Apple ID's and I don't know what their Apple Id's are. I also share my location with my sister though the Messages (because we hike a lot and she travels alone a lot).