MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[Forest_Wood]

I used to be addicted to cocaine. I was introduced to it during a party, when I was in my early thirties. It started out as a casual thing, maybe a few times a year. Then it turned into every weekend. Eventually I was doing it every day. Most cocaine users do not get to the level of use I was at. Many keep it to a minimum, and do it only at parties.

I've met many guys who did cocaine "recreationally", and many who were addicted and able to keep up a facade. Their wives usually had no idea what they did with their friends. Men who were in their 30s and 40s, who liked to "party" after some drinks. I've seen all types; from firefighters to lawyers to business owners. If you go out at night to a busy bar, you can find someone who is selling it or who "knows someone".

My theory is that I think these guys got a bag of coke that night. One of them opened it up, chopped it, and laid a few lines out on the table. Once the lines were cut, they each rolled up a bill, and snorted. Kind of like when you're having your first round of beer, you cheers one another before taking the first sip. Similarly, you all do your first line together.

Feeling good from the effects of their first line, they went outside to the back for a cigarette or to smoke a joint. Unfortunately, the cocaine was either laced or contaminated with fentanyl, and they fell over in a matter of minutes. They had no chance if they had 3X the lethal amount. In my opinion, unless the home owner was a fentanyl addict who used the drug daily, he would've also died if he did the coke. What I haven't figured out is why he would sleep for 48 hours.

I'm not trying to glamorize cocaine use. It is a horrible, horrible drug. It's gotten so dangerous to do, nobody thinks it will happen to them. A lot of people think it's fine to do once in a while. I really think this is a perfect example of how anyone who uses drugs, even only on occasion, is playing Russian roulette. You just NEVER know.

You make an interesting point with your theory.
It made me wonder ... if they had laid out 3 (or 4) lines of coke, do you think the police would have been able to detect the remnants of those lines on the table or counter? Would there have been traces of fentanyl that might have shown up on the table too?
IMO

 

[Danaya]

You make an interesting point with your theory!
It made me wonder ... if they had laid out 3 (or 4) lines of coke, do you think the police would have been able to detect the remnants of those lines on the table or counter? Would there have been traces of fentanyl that might have shown up on the table too?
IMO

I'm not too sure, but there may have been some left in the bag.

Just to add, I recently read a case about five West Point cadets who overdosed on cocaine with fentanyl in it.

Two of the men overdosed after giving the others mouth to mouth.

 

[NCWatcher]

All imho
Under times of duress there is a tendency for fight or flight.
I think that the actions of JW indicate the second of these responses.
Ironically it could be both as he could well be fighting for his life in rehab.
I wonder if his attorney suggested rehab as a good defense under the circumstances or if he came up with the idea on his own.
Either way it was a brilliant move and hopefully a fruitful and productive one was well. I hope for JWs lasting sobriety.
I don’t doubt for a minute that JW was referred to as “the chemist” starting in high school per media interviews with the cousin of one of the deceased.
I personally don’t think for a second that JW did not allow drugs in his house or that his friends hid their cocaine use from him. That is a huge stretch for someone who was nicknamed “the chemist.”
I tend to think that JW may have been a more frequent user than his friends and that the three who perished outside may have smoked something that was laced with fentanyl that JW didn’t touch or that he indeed had stronger resistance to fentanyl than his friends had if the fentanyl was cut into the cocaine as seems extremely likely.
It makes no sense at all that cocaine was snorted outside of the house. That’s an indoor activity- especially on a cold, dark night.
JW may well have passed out before his three friends snorted cocaine in his kitchen then walked outside one after another while experiencing excessive sweating and body warmth while overdosing on the fentanyl.
I don’t think JW knew his friends were dead outside.
I think he must have gone into shock after their discovery.
I hope that phone records lead to the source of the tainted drugs and I hope the source is punished to the full and complete extent of the law.
This is still so shocking and sad- three overdoses all at once.

Personally I doubt the "Jordan's the chemist" story. But if it was true, where was he manufacturing drugs in high school? In the school lab?
MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Just to be clear-- I didn't say marijuana laced with fentanyl is a myth. I said it's debatable and I supplied a link in which a professional medical group said it was a myth. And, of course, having a few highly publicized cases of group ODs where pot-laced fentanyl is said to be the cause tends to strengthen the idea pot is frequently laced even if it later turns out that conclusion in the highly-publicized cases was wrong.

In this case, per family members, the preliminary tox results revealed THC, fentanyl, and cocaine. But those results don't tell use how any of those drugs were taken. Those results also don't tell us if they smoked marijuana.
MOO

 

[Marie A]

Personally I doubt the "Jordan's the chemist" story. But if it was true, where was he manufacturing drugs in high school? In the school lab?
MOO

I’m saying I don’t doubt that was his nickname was “the chemist” to some kids that knew him from high school and that some kids may have gotten something from him. He could have gotten things from medicine cabinets and had a mortar and pestle at home- not manufacturing and dealing at all. Just dabbling in chemistry in one way or another. Other local posters who are “friends of his friends and acquaintances” in these threads said he had a bad reputation without elaborating. He is obviously highly intelligent and his chosen profession is well respected but could theoretically give him access to controlled substances that could be played with.
It’s all hearsay and I’m of the camp that he has more culpability and justifiable guilt burden causing his flight to rehab rather than deciding to get clean all of a sudden.
We are all entitled to our opinions. I give people the benefit of the doubt and at the beginning I felt strongly that JW was being persecuted unjustly by the families of the dead friends. I’ve changed my tune after all I have read.
All complete conjecture and all IMHO.

 

[Simply Southern]

I seriously doubt JW has more than 3 or four chemistry classes in high school. He was college bound and would need to meet certain requirements for college entry.

JW is not a lab scientist, he collects, analyzes, and trends research, for HIV drugs and treatment. He does NOT work in a lab, per all the media, and employment records, posted repeatedly in this thread.

ONLY family are making claims to JW, mixing chemicals/drugs in HS. Odd no others have come forward, from his HS or college.

I noticed the family has gone quite recently.
Moo

 

[NCWatcher]

I’m saying I don’t doubt that was his nickname was “the chemist” to some kids that knew him from high school and that some kids may have gotten something from him. He could have gotten things from medicine cabinets and had a mortar and pestle at home- not necessarily manufacturing and dealing at all. Other local posters who are “friends of his friends and acquaintances” in these threads said he had a bad reputation without elaborating. He is obviously highly intelligent and his chosen profession is well respected but could theoretically give him access to controlled substances that could be played with.
It’s all hearsay and I’m of the camp that he has more culpability and justifiable guilt burden causing his flight to rehab rather than deciding to get clean all of a sudden.
We are all entitled to our opinions. I give people the benefit of the doubt and at the beginning I felt strongly that JW was being persecuted unjustly by the families of the dead friends. I’ve changed my tune after all I have read.
All complete conjecture IMHO.

Thanks. I guess he could have been grinding up pills pilfered from mom and dad or from parents of friends. But that requires no chemistry knowledge nor is it the scenario the dead man's cousin tried to present of JW the high school laboratory genius creating custom or designer drugs.

I think I might find the chemist bit more believable if the story hadn't been told by the cousin in the way it was-- it just didn't ring true to me. Part of the reason was his body language while he told that particular story. And muttering about someone having a "bad" reputation without any elaboration doesn't really convince me of anything.

It's not surprising to me though that having 3 friends suddenly die of apparent drug use would be a wakeup call. And I think it would be even if they hadn't died in JWs backyard and even if JW mainly used alcohol. It would definitely be a wakeup call for me if I were in his situation.
MOO

 

[StarRemy8]

I used to be addicted to cocaine. I was introduced to it during a party, when I was in my early thirties. It started out as a casual thing, maybe a few times a year. Then it turned into every weekend. Eventually I was doing it every day. Most cocaine users do not get to the level of use I was at. Many keep it to a minimum, and do it only at parties.

I've met many guys who did cocaine "recreationally", and many who were addicted and able to keep up a facade. Their wives usually had no idea what they did with their friends. Men who were in their 30s and 40s, who liked to "party" after some drinks. I've seen all types; from firefighters to lawyers to business owners. If you go out at night to a busy bar, you can find someone who is selling it or who "knows someone".

My theory is that I think these guys got a bag of coke that night. One of them opened it up, chopped it, and laid a few lines out on the table. Once the lines were cut, they each rolled up a bill, and snorted. Kind of like when you're having your first round of beer, you cheers one another before taking the first sip. Similarly, you all do your first line together.

Feeling good from the effects of their first line, they went outside to the back for a cigarette or to smoke a joint. Unfortunately, the cocaine was either laced or contaminated with fentanyl, and they fell over in a matter of minutes. They had no chance if they had 3X the lethal amount. In my opinion, unless the home owner was a fentanyl addict who used the drug daily, he would've also died if he did the coke. What I haven't figured out is why he would sleep for 48 hours.

I'm not trying to glamorize cocaine use. It is a horrible, horrible drug. It's gotten so dangerous to do, nobody thinks it will happen to them. A lot of people think it's fine to do once in a while. I really think this is a perfect example of how anyone who uses drugs, even only on occasion, is playing Russian roulette. You just NEVER know.

I completely agree with this myself and I can see the "sleeping" as passed out, continuing to drink and/or super hungover to the point you aren't getting out of bed much...when I was drinking hard there were times I would drink until I "slept"/passed out and continued until I realized the entire weekend had gone by so very possible.

However, the only thing I wonder about is where the rest of the drugs ended up. Being that strong they probably did do one hit and then it kicked in very fast...with 3x the amount they wouldn't have been able to "finish" the bag and I wouldnt think anyone was selling a bag that only contained enough for just a few lines. If the drugs were left on the table or it was on one of them when they were found LE would have found it. Maybe they did I suppose and that will be one of those things we never know or really even need to.

 

[December]

Prescription drugs have been faked and sold illegally that contain fent. Adderall and Xanax, for example i have seen mentioned along with others (i mention these two because they are different types of drugs than fent). Idk if illegally obtained versions of those drugs actually have any of the real drug in them. But, if they sometimes do and a person who had been prescribed the same prescription drug that also had been obtained illegally (such as they wanted more of whatever it was than they could legitimately obtain)... That might be harder to separate out on a tox screen.

However, i can't imagine three people suddenly falling down dead at the same time if this was the delivery system. But, what do i know? Maybe that could happen.

Also... About "the chemist" ... High school kids are drama queens. I am sure that whatever he did, if he did it, that if you knew the real details it would be plausible as a thing a high school student could manage to do. Jmo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I used to be addicted to cocaine. I was introduced to it during a party, when I was in my early thirties. It started out as a casual thing, maybe a few times a year. Then it turned into every weekend. Eventually I was doing it every day. Most cocaine users do not get to the level of use I was at. Many keep it to a minimum, and do it only at parties.

I've met many guys who did cocaine "recreationally", and many who were addicted and able to keep up a facade. Their wives usually had no idea what they did with their friends. Men who were in their 30s and 40s, who liked to "party" after some drinks. I've seen all types; from firefighters to lawyers to business owners. If you go out at night to a busy bar, you can find someone who is selling it or who "knows someone".

My theory is that I think these guys got a bag of coke that night. One of them opened it up, chopped it, and laid a few lines out on the table. Once the lines were cut, they each rolled up a bill, and snorted. Kind of like when you're having your first round of beer, you cheers one another before taking the first sip. Similarly, you all do your first line together.

Feeling good from the effects of their first line, they went outside to the back for a cigarette or to smoke a joint. Unfortunately, the cocaine was either laced or contaminated with fentanyl, and they fell over in a matter of minutes. They had no chance if they had 3X the lethal amount. In my opinion, unless the home owner was a fentanyl addict who used the drug daily, he would've also died if he did the coke. What I haven't figured out is why he would sleep for 48 hours.

I'm not trying to glamorize cocaine use. It is a horrible, horrible drug. It's gotten so dangerous to do, nobody thinks it will happen to them. A lot of people think it's fine to do once in a while. I really think this is a perfect example of how anyone who uses drugs, even only on occasion, is playing Russian roulette. You just NEVER know.

I'm glad you're clean now. I am a former drug addict myself and I can and have seen the scenario you describe happen numerous times at house parties. As for not being able to figure out why he would sleep for 48 hours, my guesses would be either he had been up for a day or two (or three) due to finally crashing after so many days of uppers. Maybe he was feeling it and just wanted to go to sleep instead of spending another night not sleeping? I know that I was always shocked at how long I could sleep when on a Xanax bender. Glad those days are far behind me. MOO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

However, the only thing I wonder about is where the rest of the drugs ended up. Being that strong they probably did do one hit and then it kicked in very fast...with 3x the amount they wouldn't have been able to "finish" the bag and I wouldnt think anyone was selling a bag that only contained enough for just a few lines. If the drugs were left on the table or it was on one of them when they were found LE would have found it. Maybe they did I suppose and that will be one of those things we never know or really even need to.

RSBBM

In fairness, LE have said very little, other than that they didn't consider it to be foul play.

I think it's quite probable that they did find the drugs either on one of the bodies or somewhere nearby. LE still had to wait for the toxicology to prove the COD, but if they found the drugs with the bodies it would explain why they quickly seemed sure of what had happened.

 

[neesaki]

You make an interesting point with your theory.
It made me wonder ... if they had laid out 3 (or 4) lines of coke, do you think the police would have been able to detect the remnants of those lines on the table or counter? Would there have been traces of fentanyl that might have shown up on the table too?
IMO

I’m not reassured that they investigated to that extent. But my hope is that they did!

 

[Danaya]

I think it's quite probable that they did find the drugs either on one of the bodies or somewhere nearby. LE still had to wait for the toxicology to prove the COD, but if they found the drugs with the bodies it would explain why they quickly seemed sure of what had happened.

I agree. There would've been residue, rolled up bills or straws, baggies, maybe even crushed up cocaine ready to be made into lines, etc. The guys would've assumed they'd be right back in to continue the party.

As for not being able to figure out why he would sleep for 48 hours, my guesses would be either he had been up for a day or two (or three) due to finally crashing after so many days of uppers. Maybe he was feeling it and just wanted to go to sleep instead of spending another night not sleeping?

Good point.

 

[LadyL]

I completely agree with this myself and I can see the "sleeping" as passed out, continuing to drink and/or super hungover to the point you aren't getting out of bed much...when I was drinking hard there were times I would drink until I "slept"/passed out and continued until I realized the entire weekend had gone by so very possible.

However, the only thing I wonder about is where the rest of the drugs ended up. Being that strong they probably did do one hit and then it kicked in very fast...with 3x the amount they wouldn't have been able to "finish" the bag and I wouldnt think anyone was selling a bag that only contained enough for just a few lines. If the drugs were left on the table or it was on one of them when they were found LE would have found it. Maybe they did I suppose and that will be one of those things we never know or really even need to.

I think the cops found more drugs and paraphernalia on their person. I think that discovery contributed to their 'not foul play' statement. JMO.

 

[Dre]

but if they found the drugs with the bodies it would explain why they quickly seemed sure of what had happened.

rsbbm
100% agree, the only reason they could state so strongly that they didn’t find any evidence of foul play.

A huge dose of fentanyl would make someone doze pretty quickly. I reckon the physiological consequences of falling asleep with both the fentanyl and the cold, that your respiration and system slows too much and you pass. You’d be a lot more likely to just barely survive if you passed out inside instead of the cold, which is why I believe there was one survivor.

I think the 3 went out to smoke something and nodded off

 

[SusanDonim]

That actually makes sense to me. How hard would it be to incorporate a few grains of the powdered fentanyl into the weed. I have no doubt it happens. JMO as always.

What would be the point of a dealer doing such a thing?

 

[Simply Southern]

I think the cops found more drugs and paraphernalia on their person. I think that discovery contributed to their 'not foul play' statement. JMO.

Totally agree.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

What would be the point of a dealer doing such a thing?

To either try and increase potency (this is done in some cases due to the availability of legal and recreational marijuana sales -- some people selling the wares on the black market would want to provide a "stronger" product to try and compete with dispensaries). It also could be a case of say a dealer sells heroin and marijuana. He cuts his heroin with some fentanyl on his kitchen table, bags it up, puts it back in his safe. Now he brings out marijuana and lays that out on the same table to be bagged up. Basically carelessness could potentially result in cross contamination (I think that's the word I want?). Not saying that this is what I think happened in this case, but just answering your specific question. MOO

 

[Herat]

Here's another, more recent episode of 4 young people dying of fentanyl overdose while taking cocaine during a Super Bowl party.

This chit is not worth dying for.

‘They were flat-out poisoned’

Family issues plea after brothers’ fentanyl deaths at Lake Tahoe

www.recordcourier.com

 

[SusanDonim]

To either try and increase potency (this is done in some cases due to the availability of legal and recreational marijuana sales -- some people selling the wares on the black market would want to provide a "stronger" product to try and compete with dispensaries). It also could be a case of say a dealer sells heroin and marijuana. He cuts his heroin with some fentanyl on his kitchen table, bags it up, puts it back in his safe. Now he brings out marijuana and lays that out on the same table to be bagged up. Basically carelessness could potentially result in cross contamination (I think that's the word I want?). Not saying that this is what I think happened in this case, but just answering your specific question. MOO

Thanks for response.

Increasing weed potency idea doesn't hold much water for me - not the same kinda high. There are no reasons a reputal black market weed dealer would risk killing their customers with deliberate spiking.

However cross contamination potential makes absolute sense, especially given the high potency of fentanyl. The case mentioned upthread regarding the West Point incident https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/12/west-point-cadets-overdose-fentanyl/ highlights that.