GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[Izzylizzy]

How would those two cases be different?

Because the parents of the girl who brutally beat the other girl were not involved with the beating.

 

[IAMWAN]

BBM:

Thankfully that was already taken care of in Michigan by applying its "Involuntary manslaughter" laws to both Crumbleys.

Oh absolutely they have been held accountable. I was simply saying that, while I’m not sure what my PERSONAL definition of justice would be, that SOMETHING needed to be done differently in this specific case compared to the other school shootings that I have any knowledge of.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Oh absolutely they have been held accountable. I was simply saying that, while I’m not sure what my PERSONAL definition of justice would be, that SOMETHING needed to be done differently in this specific case compared to the other school shootings that I have any knowledge of.

Well,"SOMETHING" was "done differently".
The Crumbleys were the first parents of a school shooter who were criminally charged and now convicted.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Karen McDonald and Parents after James Crumbley's guilty verdict.

 

[arielilane]

One hour ago..

James Crumbley shakes his head in dismay and disbelief as the verdict is read. The families of the victims are crying in the gallery of the courtroom. The jury is dismissed. Crumbley's defense attorney leans over and whispers in his ear. He is cuffed and escorted out of the room.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1768416922092077438

Both of Ethan Crumbley's parents have been convicted for crimes committed by their son.

 

[IAMWAN]

Well,"SOMETHING" was "done differently".
The Crumbleys were the first parents of a school shooter who were criminally charged and now convicted.

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not doing a good job of explaining myself. I agree that these parents, unlike parents of other school shooters, deserved to be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof. I don’t have as much knowledge of case details for the other shootings as I do of this one because it happened 15 minutes from me but I do believe that there were many opportunities for the parents to have prevented this shooting from happening. All I was saying is that I have not decided what justice looks like for me, personally, but I don’t have to have that answer. I fully support the families in their pursuit of justice and accountability and would never try to tell them that they are “out for blood” as someone mentioned above. The pain they have experienced is unimaginable. I will be very interested to see what the judge decides to do for sentencing.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Parents directed their focus now on holding the school accountable.
They have filed civil cases against school/staff.

When asked by a reporter about the school she said "we want to hold everyone accountable",,so looks like a criminal investigation may be forthcoming.
IIRC: When asked about the school back when she first brought charges against the Crumbleys she did say that (paraphrasing) they were negligent.

@ 22:10 McDonald is asked about the school.

 

[DeDee]

This is strictly my opinion based on a cursory of the evidence. I watched the mother's testimony and that of many others, including the state's opening and closing statements.

I do believe these parents pushed an agenda onto their son. Why else would they buy him the gun? They knew he played violent video games. They intentionally overlooked his cries for Help! They ignored his presence. Loved those horses, tho. The home was a mess that indicated the lives of those inside were messy. Is it possible they wanted sympathy from a nation because their son was a 'school shooter'? Yeah, I think it's possible they expected notoriety and sympathy to come their way because no parent has even been charged for being responsible and held accountable for their child's shooting students who are in school. MOO

I'm satisfied with the precedence it sets. I'm equally satisfied with both convictions.

 

[BrownRice]

Karen McDonald and Parents after James Crumbley's guilty verdict.

My god. Can’t imagine what these parents have endured. They didn’t speak of the shooter or hatred. Just focusing on the mental health of kids and how these shootings need to stop. Heartbreaking.

Three down one to go. Going after the school next and their lack of accountability!

 

[Izzylizzy]

Had anyone else been wondering when the jury was deliberating what Jennifer was thinking?
I was curious if she would have been super pissed if James was found not-guilty, like super-super pissed?
Or maybe she wished the best for him?, hehehe

 

[Izzylizzy]

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not doing a good job of explaining myself. I agree that these parents, unlike parents of other school shooters, deserved to be held accountable for their actions, or lack thereof. I don’t have as much knowledge of case details for the other shootings as I do of this one because it happened 15 minutes from me but I do believe that there were many opportunities for the parents to have prevented this shooting from happening. All I was saying is that I have not decided what justice looks like for me, personally, but I don’t have to have that answer. I fully support the families in their pursuit of justice and accountability and would never try to tell them that they are “out for blood” as someone mentioned above. The pain they have experienced is unimaginable. I will be very interested to see what the judge decides to do for sentencing.

Being that it' is your community have you not heard what people have been saying for 2.5 yrs and now during the trials and Jennifer's guilty verdict and James's trial?
How much support for them are you aware of?
Is there a consensus or something that they shouldn't have been found guilty?
Do people write letters to papers about them, pro and con?
No one from the community was testifying for them at trial .

 

[Misy]

Does anyone know if there were/are any repercussions for the art studio friend who let them stay at his studio, bought them groceries, etc? Did he testify in either trial?
Tia

 

[Sundog]

Because the parents of the girl who brutally beat the other girl were not involved with the beating.

We don't know that to be the case, or what role the parents may have played in her upbringing and brutal and homicidal actions.

 

[Sundog]

Not surprised at all, but I think the jury got it wrong.

Since this is such a precedent-setting case, I think that appeals will be filed for both parents. I hope that a highly-skilled/competent attorney experienced with the appellate courts decides to take their cases due to their precedent-setting nature.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Does anyone know if there were/are any repercussions for the art studio friend who let them stay at his studio, bought them groceries, etc? Did he testify in either trial?
Tia

After being interviewed no charges were pressed against him and he didn't testify at either trial.

 

[Izzylizzy]

We don't know that to be the case, or what role the parents may have played in her upbringing and brutal and homicidal actions.

Until it's found out that the parent's negligence is some how involved it's a moot point.
The kid can be criminally charged and sometimes their parents can /will be civilly sued by the victims parents for personal injury.

 

[IAMWAN]

Being that it' is your community have you not heard what people have been saying for 2.5 yrs and now during the trials and Jennifer's guilty verdict and James's trial?
How much support for them are you aware of?
Is there a consensus or something that they shouldn't have been found guilty?
Do people write letters to papers about them, pro and con?
No one from the community was testifying for them at trial .

You can find people on all sides of the issue. The people I know who were directly affected are in full support of the charges and verdicts. To be transparent, I only know people who had kids that attended the school but were not in the immediate vicinity of the shooting, and I also know someone associated with the prosecution. That person and I have only spoken very superficially about the entire process because of their role and responsibilities but I have seen the toll the trials have taken on them personally. I also know people who feel like the parents have been punished “enough” and think the charges are not appropriate. As in most situations, I think there is a wide range of thoughts and feelings about what should have been done and what was ultimately decided.

From my perspective, the support for the families is ongoing but I don’t know specifics. I think many people both within and outside of the Oxford community are very frustrated with the lack of transparency from the district and the school, especially since the report came out and showed the number of people who declined to participate in the interviews.

I don’t look at the local papers outside of articles directly related to the trials so I can’t say whether or not there have been letters.

No matter what the sentences, I would imagine the Crumbleys would be unable to return to the Oxford community (not that I believe they would want to). They have spent the last 2.5 yrs in jail, sold their home, their horses and obviously no longer have their jobs. I do not feel like I have the right to say when enough is enough when it comes to the punishment or sentencing, as I was not directly impacted by the shooting. I feel like my only role is to stand in support of the families who lost their kids that day, as well as the ones who’s kids are still dealing with the trauma and aftermath of being there. And I don’t know what sentence would be considered sufficient to them.

 

[MrsWatson]

Michigan has the Truth in Sentencing guidelines. They don't play. If someone is sentenced to 15 years, that's what they will serve.

https://www.michigan.gov/corrections/services/family-information/truth-in-sentencing-information

Truth in Sentencing is a 1998 state law which eliminates disciplinary credits, good time and corrections centers for certain offenders and requires offenders to serve the entire minimum sentence in prison prior to being considered for parole. It replaces disciplinary credits with "disciplinary time" which is days accumulated for incurring Class 1 misconducts while in prison. Disciplinary time days are not to be formally added to the minimum sentence, but the Parole Board must consider the amount of time each prisoner has accumulated when it considers parole. The law commonly referred to as Truth in Sentencing, applies to assaultive crimes committed on or after Dec. 15, 1998, and all other crimes committed on or after Dec. 15, 2000. An offender that committed their offense after those dates cannot receive credits or another form of education to the minimum sentence imposed by the court. The MDOC cannot parole an offender prior to the completion of the minimum sentence.

There have been no changes with the Truth in Sentencing law. Citizens with an interest in the law should discuss the subject with their legislator.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Ethan's was at an awkward age. Dad bought the gun because his son was begging for it. I'm assuming his son was sad and distant and he thought it would make things better.

This is exactly what this case is about. What should parents think a sad distant teenager would do with a gun? A gun hidden in a closet?

The victims are gone forever. Every day from now on, their families must live without them. This is what can happen when a sad teenager has a gun. We all know this. These parents ignored reality. IMO.

 

[ilovewings]

This is exactly what this case is about. What should parents think a sad distant teenager would do with a gun? A gun hidden in a closet?

The victims are gone forever. Every day from now on, their families must live without them. This is what can happen when a sad teenager has a gun. We all know this. These parents ignored reality. IMO.

Yep- this case is all about the gun- it was obvious it wasn't "hidden" enough because Ethan got his hands on it and the ammunition----the parents acted oblivious to what was going on with their son-taking him to the shooting range! I think this will be a wake up call for parents with this precedent setting case----