Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[TTF14]

Amended motion to Compel:

Adobe Acrobat

NO Phone data for Mike, Becky, Kelsi, and Cody? At all? For the whole day? So, the timeline that has been established/given/pushed for years can't be corroborated at all?

This is highly, highly, highly concerning.

EGREGIOUS.

MOO, IMO

 

[Megnut]

NO Phone data for Mike, Becky, Kelsi, and Cody? At all? For the whole day? So, the timeline that has been established/given/pushed for years can't be corroborated at all?

This is highly, highly, highly concerning.

EGREGIOUS.

MOO, IMO

I am skeptical.

Misleading at best.

No data from them relative to the tower dump. Why would there be?

Surely there is other data available for their respective phones which explains why it wasn't developed from the tower dump!

JMO

 

[Betty P]

NO Phone data for Mike, Becky, Kelsi, and Cody? At all? For the whole day? So, the timeline that has been established/given/pushed for years can't be corroborated at all?

This is highly, highly, highly concerning.

EGREGIOUS.

MOO, IMO

I don't believe anything defense says in this case. Wait until we hear other input. They're still at the stage of this process where defense can make false statements. It's called arguing in the alternative. That's why you see them using that word frequently "alternatively".

 

[TTF14]

I am skeptical.

Misleading at best.

No data from them relative to the tower dump. Why would there be?

Surely there is other data available for their respective phones which explains why it wasn't developed from the tower dump!

JMO

This clearly says ALL phone dump data. The word "tower" isn't in this document even once.

 

[arielilane]

AC reports on 9 am hearing. RA is present at hearing wearing a orange prison jumpsuit.

Delphi murders suspect, defense team in court for contempt hearing | NewsNation Live​

 

[TTF14]

I don't believe anything defense says in this case. Wait until we hear other input. They're still at the stage of this process where defense can make false statements. It's called arguing in the alternative. That's why you see them using that word frequently "alternatively".

They can't lie. Are you saying they do have phone data and are saying they don't?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

They buried the lead in #12 didn't they. (Paraphrasing) We haven't had the time or staff to go through everything the State has given us to date, sooo all the above *it*hin' and moanin' COULD be in error your Honor. JMO

My translation:

“Judge we have not been able to go through everything because we have been too busy trying to save our own rears. We were doing OK until our client…uh, hmmm….what’s-his-name, started confessing to the murders to anybody with a pulse. Then we had to pull out our copy of “Defense Lawyering for Dummies” which instructed us to sign up for a creative writing class. After completing an online course plus an add-on class on Norse Mythology, we wrote a Frank’s motion for the ages according to several 7th and 8th grade teachers nationwide, who may or may not have been financially compensated by us. After that it was all about us.”

 

[legalmomma]

Delphi murders case hearings | Judge approves murder charges, dismisses kidnapping charges​

Delphi murders case hearings | Judge approves murder charges, dismisses kidnapping charges

Richard Allen's jury trial is scheduled to begin in May 2024.

www.wthr.com

Listening to live news, the STATE requested the dismissal of the kidnapping charges
Richard Allen was there. Defense asked several times for the contempt hearing several times, and the judge denied it several times.
Contempt hearing started at 9:45am. Two witnesses presented by the State thus far. Many witnesses planned for the defense. Contempt hearing is still going on.

 

[Megnut]

This clearly says ALL phone dump data. The word "tower" isn't in this document even once. View attachment 491322

And right above that, "certain phone dump data".

Bingo.

Dump data.

They have direct data from those phones. No doubt those phones were turned over voluntarily!

Smoke and mirrors.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

...

On Sunday afternoon, Allen’s defense team amended its motion from earlier this month, which claimed that Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland is withholding information surrounding the case.

The information includes two undated reports allegedly never seen by the defense which explain how video interviews in 2017 were lost, went missing or did not contain audio.

The reports also reportedly contain information about reported attempts to recover the lost interviews through purchasing equipment from China.

“However, that is where the report ends,” the amended motion reads. “It is unknown whether the equipment from China was ever purchased or if an attempt to recover the missing interviews were attempted.”

The defense is also asking the court to require the state of Indiana to answer if there is photo dump evidence to further determine timelines in this case, as well as all geofencing data. This comes after the state of Indiana previously claimed that no phone dump evidence case exists from certain witnesses.


...


Recent filings in Richard Allen murder trial related to evidence, funding for defense

Updated: Mar 18, 2024 / 11:51 AM EDT

 

[FrostedGlass]

AC reports on 9 am hearing. RA is present at hearing wearing a orange prison jumpsuit.

Delphi murders suspect, defense team in court for contempt hearing | NewsNation Live​

The D were originally granted a 33 page critical report from the ISP. It turns out there was a missing attachment. When they did receive that attachment, 33 pages jumped to 272 pages.

 

[Megnut]

They can't lie. Are you saying they do have phone data and are saying they don't?

They can lie. They could also be sanctioned or disbarred for it. Most attorneys stay on this side of these.

More commonly defense attorneys don't lie. They exploit the truth. Stretch it. The art of misdirection.

I think this is just such a case. Implying the Prosecution is withholding something. And that it's somehow nefarious, impactful, relevant or exculpatory. Mythological!

Quest for donut holes.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

They can lie. They could also be sanctioned or disbarred for it. Most attorneys stay on this side of these.

More commonly defense attorneys don't lie. They exploit the truth. Stretch it. The art of misdirection.

I think this is just such a case. Implying the Prosecution is withholding something. And that it's somehow nefarious, impactful, relevant or exculpatory. Mythological!

Quest for donut holes.

JMO

Yes!
They aren't supposed to lie, but they are not required to tell the truth.

 

[Betty P]

They can't lie. Are you saying they do have phone data and are saying they don't?

A quote about arguing in the alternative from famed defense attorney Richard "Racehorse" Haynes:

"Say you sue me because you say my dog bit you. Well, now this is my defense: My dog doesn't bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don't believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don't have a dog." Normally such arguments would seem to cancel each other on their face; however, legally "even if" and "anyway" clauses need not be argued; mutually exclusive defenses can be advanced without excuses for their relationship to each other.

Alternative pleading - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As others have suggested, they use vague wording that allows them to backtrack on it later. In the pre-trial phase, there's not much to prevent them lying about not receiving evidence, etc. I've seen it done in other cases, e.g. during the Rhoden Murder trials against the Wagner family - the defense attorneys often claimed in pre-trial that the state wasn't turning over evidence when prosecutors actually had the receipts for it. It's just a thing some defense attorneys do.
ETA: The best thing to do is wait to see what the judge and prosecution say in response.

 

[layer]

Listening to live news, the STATE requested the dismissal of the kidnapping charges

I'm thoroughly confused. I thought the theory was that RA, as BG, walked up to the girls on the bridge, threatened them with the gun, then led them down the hill. In what alternate universe is that not kidnapping?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don't want to be this jaded... but did these attorneys ask to be reinstated because they want to be paid/reimbursed? Nothing to do with that nonsense that they believe their client, believe he's innocent, etc. Outstanding, out-of-pocket, advanced-paid expenses, and reinstatement is the best way to secure repayment?

How does an attorney in good faith file motions for any discovery when he hasn't made it through the discovery he already has?!

I'm waiting to see real sanctions for this disgraceful circusing.

JMO

What happened to their offer for pro bono? Were they just blowing smoke?

“Rozzi and Baldwin insist they did nothing wrong and have offered to continue representing Allen for free.”

IN Supreme Court to hear arguments about Richard Allen's attorneys, Delphi homicide judge

The Indiana Supreme Court at 11 a.m. Thursday will hear arguments on three issues that could greatly change Richard Allen's upcoming trial.

www.wlfi.com

 

[legalmomma]

Delphi murders case hearings | Judge approves murder charges, dismisses kidnapping charges

Richard Allen's jury trial is scheduled to begin in May 2024.

www.wthr.com

During Monday's first hearing, Gull approved both counts of murder, but the judge dismissed both counts of kidnapping.
McLeland previously said the added charges "more accurately aligns the charging information with the cause's discovery and the probable cause affidavit."
In regards to the change of venue motion, Gull ruled that all future hearings will take place in Carroll County.
During Monday's first hearing, Gull also responded to the defense's motion to recuse the judge, which she denied.
---
The second hearing to discuss accusations of contempt against Allen's attorneys, Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi, started right after the first hearing ended. Gull denied the defense's request for a continuance in the contempt hearing.
McLeland argues the attorneys should be held in contempt of court for what he calls a "trend" of "not being completely honest with the court." The prosecutor said the attorneys violated the gag order in the case by issuing a press release on Dec. 1, 2022, proclaiming Allen's innocence. McLeland also points to information, including crime scene photos, leaked to the public through Baldwin's office.


A recent court filing shows Baldwin and Rozzi are prepared to call at least six witnesses and present more than 26 pieces of evidence Monday. The attorneys have asked several times in recent weeks for the contempt hearing to be delayed.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm thoroughly confused. I thought the theory was that RA, as BG, walked up to the girls on the bridge, threatened them with the gun, then led them down the hill. In what alternate universe is that not kidnapping?

I’m confused too.
Maybe the State is now focusing on Capital Murder 1 instead of felony murder via kidnapping.

 

[Betty P]

I'm thoroughly confused. I thought the theory was that RA, as BG, walked up to the girls on the bridge, threatened them with the gun, then led them down the hill. In what alternate universe is that not kidnapping?

This article said the judge dismissed kidnapping charges. Which is it?

Delphi murders case hearings | Judge approves murder charges, dismisses kidnapping charges

Richard Allen's jury trial is scheduled to begin in May 2024.

www.wthr.com

Also in the above article, it sounds like the defense is intent on giving the judge a hard time.

During Monday's first hearing, Gull also responded to the defense's motion to recuse the judge, which she denied.

 

[Betty P]

I’m confused too.
Maybe the State is now focusing on Capital Murder 1 instead of felony murder via kidnapping.

I suppose they're setting him up for the death penalty, something I thought they were going to do from the start. Perhaps they're hoping to force RA to take a plea deal, though that seems unlikely given his erratic defense team.