Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
zh0r4 said:
Is this normal? To attempt blocking depositions? I have heard of certain evidence not being allowed to be presented in court, but depositions of correctional officers? Why would the state want these depositions blocked?

One of the 3 mentioned is the Warden-is this the same warden who will be supplying RA’s mental health records while at the prison? The same warden who said he allows officers to wear patches at his prison? I didn’t think the P could use witnesses for evidence against a defendant while simultaneously blocking the D from deposing them? Maybe I am misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

At a guess the prosecution might believe these people are not relevant witnesses to the trial.
 
zh0r4 said:
Is this normal? To attempt blocking depositions? I have heard of certain evidence not being allowed to be presented in court, but depositions of correctional officers? Why would the state want these depositions blocked?

One of the 3 mentioned is the Warden-is this the same warden who will be supplying RA’s mental health records while at the prison? The same warden who said he allows officers to wear patches at his prison? I didn’t think the P could use witnesses for evidence against a defendant while simultaneously blocking the D from deposing them? Maybe I am misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

This warden?

hometownnewsnow.com

Prison Warden Fined for Law Breaking

(Westville, IN) - The man in charge of the prison at Westville has been fined for misuse of state property. A report from the Indiana Inspector General found Warden John Galipeau broke s...
hometownnewsnow.com hometownnewsnow.com
 
zh0r4 said:
Respectfully, they were already taking a pay cut of between 4-10x what they are paid in their private practice as public defenders. It is inaccurate to say their offer wasn’t real and/or they don’t actually believe their client is innocent. Lebrato also believed RA was innocent.

JMHO
Click to expand...
Defense lawyers always say their client is innocent. If they didn't want to take less than they normally get paid in their private practices they'd have never been certified to take these capital cases for the indigent. I think the pro bono offer was not genuine because they knew the judge was going to say no. JMO
 
Vern said:
Despite the fact they were apparently understaffed, underpaid & overworked, --- absolutely 'overwhelmed' as it were, the Defence itself went ahead & requested the speedy trial; I'd call that a very big receipt.

Lesson Learned: Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Or, otherwise known as "play silly games and sometimes win stupid prizes".

To paraphrase Pink Floyd:
How can you have any disclosure if you haven't yet read yer disclosure?
Click to expand...
The asking for a continuance is right around the corner, JMO.
 
FrostedGlass said:
I wrongly assumed that it would take a lot more than a nod from a judge to access our personal health records.
Apparently all those papers I sign are worthless if a prosecutor wants them.
Click to expand...
If someone had a team of attorneys that were building a defense, in which they were describing their client's emotional, physical and mental health status, and how those conditions were connected to a double murder of two girls, then I think the prosecutor should have access to those personal health records. Otherwise they should not be able to make those claims. IMO

There are circumstances where justice and social concerns can outweigh one person's individual's desire for privacy. You cannot claim in court that you made certain false confessions because of your mental and physical health conditions but then deny the courts access to those records, imo.
 
Last edited:
zh0r4 said:
Respectfully, they were already taking a pay cut of between 4-10x what they are paid in their private practice as public defenders. It is inaccurate to say their offer wasn’t real and/or they don’t actually believe their client is innocent. Lebrato also believed RA was innocent.

JMHO
Click to expand...
Lebrato had 2 statements in separate interviews to the question of RA's guilt. One was answered in an obviously affirmative manner, then he quickly walked that back by stating in the second interview when asked about RA's guilt or innocence:

<snipped & BBM>
“He’s always very respectful to us in our meetings with him,” Lebrato said. “I think he’s not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocence is one of the most important legal theories that we have. That presumption of innocence carries with him through every stage of the trial, until the jury has heard all the evidence, including closing arguments, and until they deliberate. That presumption of innocence follows him the whole way.”.

MSN

MOO
 
zh0r4 said:
Is this normal? To attempt blocking depositions? I have heard of certain evidence not being allowed to be presented in court, but depositions of correctional officers? Why would the state want these depositions blocked?

One of the 3 mentioned is the Warden-is this the same warden who will be supplying RA’s mental health records while at the prison? The same warden who said he allows officers to wear patches at his prison? I didn’t think the P could use witnesses for evidence against a defendant while simultaneously blocking the D from deposing them? Maybe I am misunderstanding.
Click to expand...
The Defense may call them as a witness or can rebut testimony given at trial by cross examination, but they cannot depose every single person on the State's witness list.

It seems the guards were allowed to express their religious beliefs by wearing their patch. We've had a Verified Expert on Odinism here answering questions about the religion and practice NOT being violent or offering human sacrifices.

Is the assumption of right or wrong on the decision of religion different for Odinism than Catholic, Baptist, Buddha, LDS or any other religion? Does proclaiming to be Odinist automatically make you a 'bad person'? If the guards had crosses on chains around their necks, rosary beads or other religious symbolism would that have been more acceptable?

It's a desperate reach by the Defense to further their narrative when they should be working on a reasonable explanation of why RA was there at that time of the murders, in those clothes, on that bridge seen by witnesses and on video by dear Libby, and who also made made taped confessions of admitting the killings, IMO.

JMO
 
mrjitty said:
Well it is an independent branch of government that protects you from a prosecutor getting them, and he has been denied twice before. The problem is the defence kept placing his mental health at issue.

It wouldn't be fair discovery wise if only the defence had access to those records for trial, when the defence has placed these angles at issue.
Click to expand...
Exactly, the Defense has used the excuse of mental stress, anguish and metal intimidation MMDO for many of the responses and Motions and still do.

Judge Gull has denied the records to the State at least twice before, but explicitly warned the D that if they continued to narrate that story, it would open the door for the State to have access. It was his records pertaining to his time at Westville and Washburn, not his entire life.

MOO
 
steeltowngirl said:
IMO, if RA is acquitted, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s not guilty of the crime - especially in the eyes of LE. It could simply be that prosecution didn’t have enough evidence to persuade the jury that he was guilty. (Think Casey Anthony or OJ Simpson.)

If it comes down to that, I pray the jury gets it right. If the evidence is there, they should convict. If not, they should acquit. If they acquit, IMO, it will be done with for RA. LE may continue to investigate others who were potentially involved.

I am more worried about a hung jury and this dragging on for years.

jmo
Click to expand...
I hear you STG, but I believe the State has the evidence to convict and I believe an impartial jury of his peers seeing and hearing the totality of that evidence will come to the correct conclusion. There will be justice for Abby & Libby and their families.

RA=BG=Killer(s) there is absolutely no doubt in my mind. How many coincidences are too many?

MOO
 
zh0r4 said:
“Yesterday during Officer Todd Click's testimony in the #Delphi case, Click mentioned a phone of Johnny Messer's.
@HoosierColdCase found the miscellaneous criminal cause opened to obtain a search warrant. I've attached Officer Click's affidavit for the warrant here, which seems to track with his testimony.”


Copypasta of warrant:

1/30/2019 11:54 AM Scanned

STATE OF INDIANA COUNTY OF RUSH IN THE MATTER OF AN INVESTIGATION BY THE RUSHVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT

) SS:

IN THE RUSH SUPERIOR COURT

2019 TERM

AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE IN SUPPORT OF SEARCH WARRANT

Comes now your Affiant, Major Todd A. Click, being duly sworn upon his Oath as a Police Officer with the Rushville Police Department, swears and/or affirms that the following statement is true:
  1. I have been employed as a Police Officer with the Rushville Police Department since May 2001.
  2. I currently serve as Assistant Chief of Police and hold the rank of Major where I am responsible for supervising major criminal investigations, and I have served in this capacity since January 1", 2012.
  3. I have extensive training and experience conducting major criminal investigations. I served as Detective for the Rushville Police Department from August 2008 until December 31, 2011.
  4. In August 2018, I began providing investigative assistance to investigators working the double homicide of A.W. and L.G. in Delphi, IN. During the course of this investigation, I learned that Johnny Messer and Eric Basham were involved in a kidnapping that occurred in Indianapolis, IN.
I had spoken with Taylor Homaday, Johnny Messer's ex-girlfriend. Taylor told me that Johnny Messer and Eric Basham had gone to Indianapolis, IN on December 29th, 2017, to purchase methamphetamine.

Taylor told me that Johnny had been in contact with a guy she thought was named "Mike". Taylor told me that Johnny Messer and Eric Basham met with "Mike" and gave him $4000.00 to purchase methamphetamine. Taylor told me that "Mike" failed to return to where Johnny Messer and Eric Basham were, and "Mike" had essentially stole their $4000.00. Taylor told me that Johnny Messer kidnapped a friend of "Mike". Taylor told me that the friend went by the street name of "Weiner", Taylor told me that Johnny Messer kidnapped "Weiner" at gunpoint until he either got his $4000.00 back or he got $4000.00 worth of methamphetamine. Taylor told me that she had previously installed a spyware program on Johnny Messer's cell phone that allowed her to listen to Johnny's surroundings through the speaker on his cell phone. Taylor told me that she was listening to the kidnapping as it was happening. Taylor told me that she could hear "Weiner" begging Johnny Messer not to kill him.

In November 2018, a Search Warrant was obtained through Vigo County, IN for Taylor Hornaday's cell phone. This Search Warrant was in conjunction with the Delphi double homicide investigation. During the search of Taylor Hornaday's cell phone, recordings of Johnny Messer's cell phone calls were found. One of those recordings was of Johnny Messer talking to someone regarding the theft of his $4000.00.

The phone call recording corroborated Taylor's report of the kidnapping in Indianapolis.

On January 15, 2019, I went to Putnamville Correctional Facility and interviewed Eric Basham. Eric Basham confirmed that the kidnapping took place. Eric Basham told me that he had recently gotten a large monetary settlement. Eric Basham told me that he and Johnny Messer had gone to Indianapolis to purchase $4000.00 worth of methamphetamine. Eric Basham told me that he and Johnny Messer made contact with one of Johnny's "connections". Eric Basham told me that he gave Johnny's "connection" $4000.00, and "this guy" was supposed to come back and give them $4000.00 worth of methamphetamine. Eric Basham told me that "this guy" stole his money. Eric Basham told me that Johnny Messer grabbed "this guy's" friend, "Weiner", at gunpoint and put him in the truck. Eric Basbam told me that Johnny Messer had a 380 handgun, but that he didn't have any bullets for the gun. Eric Basham told me that Johnny was trying to use "Weiner" as "leverage" to either get the $4000.00 back or get their methamphetamine. Eric Basham told me that he tried to convince Johnny Messer several times to "let this guy go" but Johnny refused. Eric Basham told me that "Weiner" was able to find them a supplier for $4000.00 worth of methamphetamine. Eric Basham told me that Johnny Messer released "Weiner" once they got the drugs.

On January 28, 2019, I was contacted by Taylor Horaday. Taylor told me that she was cleaning her house today and found an old cell phone. Taylor told me that she thought that this cell phone belonged to her ex-boyfriend, Johnny Messer. Taylor told me that she entered the cell phone and confirmed that the cell phone belonged to Johnny Messer. Taylor told me that she also found text messages in the phone regarding Johnny's involvement in the kidnapping that occurred in Indianapolis.

I have Probable Cause to believe that evidence of the crime of kidnapping may be stored within the cellular telephone that is described as blue, Samsung Galaxy J1 cell phone belonging to Johnny Messer. I respectfully request that a Search Warrant be issued to search for, seize and analyze data that may be stored within the cellular telephone's Contact List, Incoming and Outgoing Call History, Incoming and Outgoing Text Message History, Photo Gallery, Notes, and any and all areas where digital media may be stored.

I affirm, under penalties of perjury, that the information provided in this affidavit is true and accurate.

01/30/19
Date

Major Todd A. Click
Rushville Police Department
Click to expand...
I'm truly confused...what does any of this have to do with the Murder of Abby & Libby? Did TC get his probable cause warrant and did it somehow connect JM or EB to the murders of Abby & Libby or is this just some meth head buying deal?

jmo
 
!
Emma Peel said:
Defense support for deposing DOC employees (i.e. depositions the State wishes to block):

View attachment 491655
View attachment 491656
View attachment 491657
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm…….
My question would be, “what is NM afraid of that he needed to file a “protective order” on deposing DOC staff?? If JG denies the D from deposing them, surely it will become even more evident that she is indeed biased against the D. As many in the legal sphere have opined, this case is already an appellate attorney’s dream. For all those lamenting that the D are holding up justice, what about the P?? Endless appeals due to faulty decisions will hold up justice even more.
All JMO.
 
Last edited:
susiQ said:
!
Hmmmmm…….
My question would be, “what is NM afraid of that he needed to file a “protective order” on deposing DOC staff?? If JG denies the D from deposing them, surely it will become even more evident that she is indeed biased against the D. As many in the legal sphere have opined, this case is already an appellate attorney’s dream. For all those lamenting that the D are holding up justice, what about the P?? Endless appeals due to faulty decisions will hold up justice even more.
All JMO.
Click to expand...
Here's one thing but I'm wondering exactly what information they might find that would publicly embarrass the DOC or place the employees in danger.

MOO
If they have done nothing wrong, let it be known.
If there have been wrong-doings, let that be known, too.

5. That there are articulable concerns based on prior behavior that Defense counsel
will release information to the media that could publicly embarrass the IDOC or
further place its employees in danger or subject to ridicule or harassment.
Click to expand...

State Motion for PO for DOC evidence.pdf

drive.google.com drive.google.com
 
susiQ said:
!
Hmmmmm…….
My question would be, “what is NM afraid of that he needed to file a “protective order” on deposing DOC staff?? If JG denies the D from deposing them, surely it will become even more evident that she is indeed biased against the D. As many in the legal sphere have opined, this case is already an appellate attorney’s dream. For all those lamenting that the D are holding up justice, what about the P?? Endless appeals due to faulty decisions will hold up justice even more.
All JMO.
Click to expand...
He's not asking for her to deny depos.
 
The Defense is clearly going on another fishing trip. I would certainly hope Judge Gull decides to rule against the D's request. A person's religious preference is sacrosanct, just like an individual's sexual orientation, political beliefs, etc. Separation of Church/State. If the D has questions of these 3 guards, subpoena them to Court or examine them on cross if called by the State.

It would not prove bias if denied, just that the D has not met the standard according to the Judge and IN law. At this point if Judge Gull even looks at the Defense for too long or in the wrong way, it's bias. The SCOIN found no substantiated record of bias by Judge Gull towards RA or the D, and unanimously voted to keep her as Special Appointed Trial Judge. Saying it repeatedly does not make it true.

I can't help but be amused at how all the 'defense experts' are commenting on this case. Are these experts the SM, YTers, and Podcasters of the world? It's their 15 minutes of fame & $$$. When this trial is over, they will fade back into obscurity again thank goodness. Unless they write a book, and even then it won't last. ;)

A flurry of excessive, baseless, and poorly written Motions does not an Innocent Client make. A ruling against or for these Motions does not Bias make.

JMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 172 more.
Total: 4,270 (members: 173, guests: 4,097)

Online statistics

Members online
173
Guests online
4,097
Total visitors
4,270
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
593,382
Messages
17,985,837
Members
229,115
Latest member
Ecdub
Back
Top