TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

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Yes, I think it was a real gun. Why would someone wear a ski mask to sneak up and scare someone with a paintball gun? I think it was a real gun and maybe the only way Tammy could make sense of it and not be even more freaked out was to think it was a paintball gun?

I do wonder if she's seen paintball guns before or used on to know exactly what it was or if she guessed.
And why wear a ski mask? A dead person cannot identify you.
 
Interesting. Not sure how the haughtiness in the defense serves, then. No matter how hot Lori is or how intrusive government is, there are dead children and a a dead mother.

I think it's not going to be a winning play. I don't think there is one. The apparent defense really just confirms the prosecutions theory for the most part. The only changes are Tammy died naturally and Chad was not part of murdering Tylee and JJ.

Suggesting LE is framing him by exhuming Tammy and investigating her death, or for investigating him "just" because the victims were buried outside his window is suggesting he was and is being persecuted by level-whatever evil forces. The framed-from-the-start defense just confirms that the man in the text messages hasn't changed. He still agrees with what he espoused then, there are evil forces trying to attack Chad because chad's so special. Of course anyone trying to stop Chad from his mission was evil then, and is still evil now.

Admitting to the whole fantasy while denying criminal involvement doesn't work for me as well as showing change.

The man in the text messages is very dark. If he's going to claim it was all a game to get the trophy wife, he woukd have to start showing that he sees how dangerous the game could be, and show some emotion for the dead children. At least shed a fake tear or two. Instead, the defenses attitude is haughty and superior. Chad does have a "so humble" act. He should pull it out now for better chances, IMO.

(Not that I am pushing for acquittal.)

MOO

Thanks for that reply!

To play devil's advocate to your various points - not aiming this at you, but because your points are very representative of the vast majority of the conversation in this thread so far ....

1 No one minimizes the deaths, and I don't imagine the defense will either. Their point will be that they just weren't Chad's doing (even though the state wants to link him to it).
2 "The only changes are Tammy died naturally and Chad was not part of murdering Tylee and JJ." - That's true -- but wouldn't you agree those only changes would make a MASSIVE difference for Chad, if they were true (or if the jury believes they very well could be true)? I do.
3 "Suggesting LE is framing him by ..." - I would think Chad's way to state that would be that it has been an investigation and prosecution of convenience, where LE came up with a theory (that Chad-Lori-Alex did a bunch of murders), without any actual proof that he was involved. So they used spin on his innocent (but creepy and lustful) words, and pseudo-science to involve him in the kids deaths (when they were buried) and to say Tammy's unfortunate demise by some illness was a murder, with no solid evidence for either. And meanwhile, it's Lori and Alex doing things they do (and have done in the past too), that he didn't condone or participate in or even know about at the time.
4 As for Chad's demeanor, I think it's smug like you do, but to be fair, is there any reaction he could do that we would see him differently? If he weeps and wails, we see it as a show, if he says nothing we see it as uncaring, and none of this set of murders is news to him -- it's been years. I'm not all that interested in him being a good actor or not. At this point, he (and we too) should be about the evidence, and what it says or doesn't say. Lots of people made a big deal out of how LVD acted in court in her trial, and I felt the same way about that too -- it really should be about what the evidence is saying. imo
... In a related point, some have derided Chad's reaction on seeing the photos of the dead kids, and assumed he was just acting. Frankly, there's no reason to simply assume he had seen those pictures or the bodies before, so maybe it was a 100% real reaction. His lawyer and helpers would have needed to confront them before, and figure out how to respond to that evidence, but not him necessarily. But that's yet another example of how any reaction by him - proper or improper - is going to be ripped.

Like you, I hope for (and expect) him to get hanged, not an acquittal. But I'm still very curious what the evidence will look like (and whether it will hold up, or be shown to have massive flaws) when confronted by an aggressive defense, and I certainly don't want a stupid-but-not-truly-involved bystander to killers to be fried because he couldn't control his loins. We'll see.
 
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I think he did for JJ.

To clarify: I think he was more likely involved in JJ's murder. He carried him away per witnesses.

MOO.
I think Alex may have *possibly* had facts that would make me think he belongs in prison. But not forever. I don't know what happened, but I feel it's plausible he was a disabled man to begin with and was used and manipulated the extent that I would find it mitigating, but not exonerating.

He was like a middle schooler with an arsenal. Yikes!

MOO
 
Is it me or is JP all over the place? Is he taking the scattergun approach?
He's hoping to leave the jury so confused they can't link together a narrative- so the State will seem to have not proven its case. Grit and focus in the jurors is his enemy. Inability to concentrate by persons inclined to distrust the government and/or hate women are his friends.

I don't think distrust or misogyny alone are enough. There also has to not be a coherent narrative to force a person to put that aside. Otherwise he gets, "she totally led him by his little storm, but he still shouldn't have killed," or "those detectives will do anything to intrude on law abiding gun carrying citizens, but he still shouldn't have killed."

The confusion can make it seem the state didn't prove its case. The hate or distrust can explain why Chad was charged in the first place, and remove motivation to think hard through the confusion.

MOO
 
I, too, am grateful to those of you following and reporting on the trial. I'm stuck on a cruise ship off the coast of South Africa so my time zone is out of whack with the trial anyway (not to mention the poor wifi). Anyway, this thread lets me follow developments along with your own excellent commentaries.

It seems pretty clear that there is no way the defense will put Chad on the stand so it will be very interesting to see how the kids testify and whether they give any substantive testimony about what he claims to have been told about where J.J. and Tylee were. The prosecution could object to such testimony as hearsay, of course, but I'm not sure they would want to do so in front of the jury. The fact that the bodies were on his farm with DNA on his tools makes it very tough for him.

It sure looks like the defense is trying to follow the Casey Anthony playbook, but that defense worked, in my opinion, because there was so much uncertainty as to whether or not death was the result of an accident. Here (at least with respect to the children) there is the undeniable stench of murder and conspiracy to murder, and Chad has so many connections to the conspirators he is trying to blame -- not to mention orchestrating the whole dark/light b.s. I think his odds of acquittal are miniscule.
 
He brought him back too. So, do you think he brought a dead boy back to LVs?
I know you’re asking lightofmine99 but hope you won’t mind me chiming in here too.

I have wondered whether that could have been the case and cannot support with any evidence or testimony whether JJ was alive when AC carried him in that night or not.

But…I think he was still alive and here are some thoughts & questions I have that make me think he died later that night…
1) According to MG & DW, AC brought JJ back during the podcast they were doing which was from around 9pm to around midnight. (I think someone - perhaps DW - said they thought it was around 10:30pm but I’m pretty sure both said between 9pm and midnight.) How long after that was it before MG & DW went to bed? Was it before AC left again?
2) What would be the point of taking JJ back to LVD’s if he was already deceased? Why not just tell MG & DW that JJ was spending the night with AC and leave it at that?
3) IF AC had his phone with him at all times that evening then he was in his own apt from shortly after midnight until shortly before 10am when he left and headed toward CD’s. So did he just take JJ’s body right back with him when he left?
4) Why didn’t LVD answer her locked door when MG was trying to get her after DW’s nightmare if JJ was already dead? If he was still in her room why not just pretend he’s asleep? If he was already at AC’s why not answer the door and if MG asked about JJ just say that he was asleep or even that he woke up and went back to AC’s when AC went home?
5) Was LVD even in that locked room? If she was, did she not answer because she was busy killing JJ? Or because she was covering up what she’d just done?
6) If she was in that locked room, was she alone? With JJ? Had AC returned without his phone?
7) Is it possible she thought that MG might come knocking on the door so she locked it and left with JJ’s body to take to AC’s so that MG & DW would not find a deceased JJ the next morning?
8) How and when did AC get JJ’s body to take to CD’s if he left JJ at LVD’s when he returned to his own apartment a little after midnight and didn’t leave until the next morning? It makes more sense to me that LVD took a lifeless JJ to AC’s either while MG knocked on that door or shortly after.
9) And finally, ZP says LVD was angry when she got a phone call on 10/9 - presumably from CD telling her TD was not dead after the attempted shooting- and she said the idiot can’t do anything right by himself. I think this tells us that if AC killed Tylee and/or JJ, he did not do it alone.

It is my opinion only, but I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to think that LVD may have actually killed JJ and Tylee herself and that AC helped her cover it up and disposed of the bodies for her or at the very least, she was right there with him when he did it.
 
LOL @ Prior, going all way the back to Alex Cox assault of Joe Ryan. Asking Det Hermosillo if Chad Daybell knew Lori then. RIDICULOUS.
I totally agree! He's grasping at straws.
(OK, as a defense lawyer with little to work with he should. He doesn't have too many other strategies to pursue, does he? )
 
I don’t think we need an eyewitness for the fire on the 9th since CD text TD about it. As for the fires later that fall, I think it’s relevant because it shows CD was trying to further destroy evidence he knew was there.

I refound the satellite photos article
….fascinating capture

 
I know you’re asking lightofmine99 but hope you won’t mind me chiming in here too.

I have wondered whether that could have been the case and cannot support with any evidence or testimony whether JJ was alive when AC carried him in that night or not.

But…I think he was still alive and here are some thoughts & questions I have that make me think he died later that night…
1) According to MG & DW, AC brought JJ back during the podcast they were doing which was from around 9pm to around midnight. (I think someone - perhaps DW - said they thought it was around 10:30pm but I’m pretty sure both said between 9pm and midnight.) How long after that was it before MG & DW went to bed? Was it before AC left again?
2) What would be the point of taking JJ back to LVD’s if he was already deceased? Why not just tell MG & DW that JJ was spending the night with AC and leave it at that?
3) IF AC had his phone with him at all times that evening then he was in his own apt from shortly after midnight until shortly before 10am when he left and headed toward CD’s. So did he just take JJ’s body right back with him when he left?
4) Why didn’t LVD answer her locked door when MG was trying to get her after DW’s nightmare if JJ was already dead? If he was still in her room why not just pretend he’s asleep? If he was already at AC’s why not answer the door and if MG asked about JJ just say that he was asleep or even that he woke up and went back to AC’s when AC went home?
5) Was LVD even in that locked room? If she was, did she not answer because she was busy killing JJ? Or because she was covering up what she’d just done?
6) If she was in that locked room, was she alone? With JJ? Had AC returned without his phone?
7) Is it possible she thought that MG might come knocking on the door so she locked it and left with JJ’s body to take to AC’s so that MG & DW would not find a deceased JJ the next morning?
8) How and when did AC get JJ’s body to take to CD’s if he left JJ at LVD’s when he returned to his own apartment a little after midnight and didn’t leave until the next morning? It makes more sense to me that LVD took a lifeless JJ to AC’s either while MG knocked on that door or shortly after.
9) And finally, ZP says LVD was angry when she got a phone call on 10/9 - presumably from CD telling her TD was not dead after the attempted shooting- and she said the idiot can’t do anything right by himself. I think this tells us that if AC killed Tylee and/or JJ, he did not do it alone.

It is my opinion only, but I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to think that LVD may have actually killed JJ and Tylee herself and that AC helped her cover it up and disposed of the bodies for her or at the very least, she was right there with him when he did it.
I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion, but it should definitely be considered.
 
Tammy’s Facebook post :

View attachment 496506


Wait. I don’t think I reflected on these details before. If she was deathly ill, 10 days before she passed away from “natural causes”, and so fatigued, would she be going to make freezer meals ? Get the meals out of the backseat herself (as opposed to asking someone else to help her unload the car?) Have the lung capacity to yell at the assailant AND yell loud enough from outside the home to get the attention of someone inside the home for assistance? There is plenty here to suggest her health was just fine 10 days prior to her death.
 
It is my opinion only, but I don’t think it is too much of a stretch to think that LVD may have actually killed JJ and Tylee herself and that AC helped her cover it up and disposed of the bodies for her or at the very least, she was right there with him when he did it.
SBM. IMO Alex was there mainly to do Chad and Lori's dirty work and being a true believer, he was very willing to do that. C&L took physical part in the murders where one pair of hands wasn't enough. Shooting somebody doesn't require two people. The fact that Alex missed on two occasions does not speak of his inability to murder. Chad thanked him for his "services" profusely in his blessing.
 
When his relevant emails, messages and phone calls (as well as witness testimonies) are presented in court, Chad will have a hard time portraying himself as a victim and a follower, or a person who is oblivious to what was really happening. His own words tell a different story.
 
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He brought him back too. So, do you think he brought a dead boy back to LVs?
My thought is no because the reports of JJ's autopsy photos suggest JJ tried to remove the duct tape or something from his neck while alive. :( He had injuries that suggest he was fighting, and fighting is impossible when excessively restrained as he was. I think he was alive during much of the process of taping.

If not for restraint, the tape was a ritual. If the tape was for some ritual to keep away dark spirits, I would think the process would have to be done with more urgency than after the pod cast is done.

If the taping was a ritual, post-death tape around the neck doesn't explain the scratches under the tape. But it is possible the murderers thought they were doing something to protect their victim's body in taping him as he died. If that's the case, they did not realize or did not acknowledge that they themselves were the evil ones.

MOO
 
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