Nejame Files Motion to Strike for TES/Baez 7/16/09 Motion

[Bobby62]

Tim is very good at what he does. He has every place he searches laid out in a grid pattern and assigns people to those grids. It would not be hard to go and see if that spot was within a grid for the search in that area.

He searched some of the area in the first search. We and the defense do not know how far he got on that grid search. It sounds, because of the reports by the person who found the body and the psychic in the film, like it was not under water for at least a period of time.

Why the stalling over turning over valid information if that particular area was searched or not? Sounds like road blocks are being thrown up because Tim said (on NG) he would do NOTHING to aid the defense. My position is if he did not search this area it would not help the defense at all by turning over that info. What gives here?

Blued by me

It is my understanding that Mr. Baez asked for the personal information from all of the searchers. That is totally different than asking what areas were searched. Mr. Baez stormed in, in bully fashion, demanding tantamount to all personal information except SS #s from anyone involved in the search. (Note to self....None of Caylee's family members personal records would be included) The bully got a beatdown today in the public eye. He will get another when the court rules against him. Had he called TES and asked for information about if that area was searched, he would have probably been told that it had not. Instead, Mr. Nejame told him in his legal response that it had not.

I searched with TES. I was between Boggy Creek and Narcoosee. Does this entitle Mr Baez to know my personal information? I was at least ten miles from where his client flung the bag containing a once vibrant little girl. The evidence we have seen so far is pretty overwhelming and sobering. The actions of the family and Mr Baez since July could not possibly be concocted in the minds of the best Hollywood writers, even with the aid of the best pharmaceuticals. His litany of poor motions and constant crying in the press are smokescreens. It is all he has, since even he knows what a horrid act his client masterminded and the nature of her involvement.

He has screwed up again by attacking an organization that has an exemplary reputation with the public. Maybe he does feel that the jury will think he was picked on. I feel that the jury will spend time thinking of their own 2 year olds and trying not to puke when they learn the extent of just how horrifying Caylee's last moments were.

"Bard" Nejame stepped up in a big way with this document. I am proud of him and Mr. Miller. I bet the search information JB is looking for is in LE files. He should learn to ask for it and how to ask for it.

I reckon the "Bard" is now up there on that sainthood list

 

[lawlady84]

ALSO, whoever said Tim Miller is willing to appeal it up to the Supreme Court - I bet he will, and I bet it'll be all for free. This is a perfect privacy case both for liberal leaning lawyers - ACLU - and conservative leaning lawyers - libertarians looking to protect the right of citizens to assemble without intrusion. Not to mention victims rights advocates, etc.

JB is never getting the records - never. I'd bet the house on this one.

 

[lawlady84]

Spot on Bobby62 - neither JB nor the SA have any right to know citizens personal information, nor which groups they are members of without probable cause. Groups aren't required to submit their membership lists without a subpeona- and thats when they are SUBJECT to investigation.

TES can raise multiple constitutional arguments. But I think the Judge will rule in the interest of public policy and future volunteer efforts to keep all info secret. JB might be able to get the areas assigned to search, but NOTHING about individuals.

 

[Friday]

It is very important to establish if any searcher had looked in that area to establish if the bag was there when they searched.

Why do you all want people to withold evidence or make it difficult to find out the truth? It is only your opinion whether or not Casey knew that body was there.

If it was seen but wasn't looked in, then so be it. At least it would prove it was there! I am sure there were bags people did not look in or see on the searches for one reason or another. You ALL should want to find out the truth!

Do you want the jury to have a doubt that the bag was there because Tim is mad and doesn't want to aid in the defense at all? If that comes out during the trial it will only help Casey. IMHO this is a game that may backfire on the prosecution.

Think about it!

If the prosecution were in any way involved or responsible for TES's reluctance to comply with JB's demands, I'd be somewhat inclined to agree with you. I, too, have wished at times that LE wouldn't appear to balk or stall about providing the defense with whatever they're entitled to have, because the defense is going to get it eventually anyway, and I don't want the jury to have any reason to find fault with LE.

On the other hand, to prevent that from happening, I'm not willing to see TES become a docile victim of JB's wrongful, pointless (and highly suspect IMO) demand for personal information about each and every searcher who aided us in the Caylee search.

Do you have any idea of the personal information that TES volunteer searchers are required to provide before they're given the "opportunity" to spend their own free time slogging through muck, getting attacked by insects, threatened by snakes, gouged by jungle-like growth, and roasting alive in the heat? Surely to God, in return for that, they deserve better from TES than having all their personal, private, (and occasionally embarrassing) information willingly offered up to the defense and then--via the Sunshine Act--served up like a platter of tasty hors d'oevures to a hundred million people on the internet?

This last is the part that troubles me far more than anything else. Think about why it does for a moment--have you no friends, children, or family members who in their youths, or long ago, got into a little trouble with LE--rightly or wrongly? You know the kind of family members or friends I mean--they're the sort of reckless, irresponsible youths, totally innocent, or reformed adults, who've now become so compassionate and so decent that they're now devoting their own time and efforts to a dreadful, sad, and desperately needed search for victims.

It is very important to establish if any searcher had looked in that area to establish if the bag was there when they searched.

Why do you all want people to withold evidence or make it difficult to find out the truth? It is only your opinion whether or not Casey knew that body was there.

If it was seen but wasn't looked in, then so be it. At least it would prove it was there! I am sure there were bags people did not look in or see on the searches for one reason or another.

But that is NOT the extent of the information that JB has subpoenaed.

You ALL should want to find out the truth!

The truth about this case--absolutely! The personal facts and intimate details about every single uninvolved, volunteer searcher who entered the Orlando area over a period of months and who did not search the area at Suburban Drive? No! Absolutely Not! IMHO

 

[Searchfortruth]

I should add that I doubt very much they will get ALL of the volunteers personal information as they probably cannot establish any sort of probative value or relevance for most of that information.

I agree. I really don't think the court will allow this personal information to be turned over to the Defense, MN offered some very good points. Charitible organizations, such as TES are not officially associated with LE. If the searcher's private information was made public in this manner, all charitible organizations, who depend on volunteers, would suffer. It appears pathetic and desperate for JB to cast such a wide net in hopes of catching a single fish.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Oh I agree with flies and honey. I just think this is between TES and JB, not LE/SA and JB.

Of course, the Queen's English is used other places, I was just thinking Brits!

Essentially, I think that is correct, at least in relation to the legal argument pending pursuant to the motions. Where LE/SA may come into it, is that they have probably obtained at least some info from TES re their searches, and certainly have had conversations with TM about it, and I think that should be given to JB asap. I also think if the info is not provided, JB will be able to get that before the jury, and the jury may be left wondering if they are hiding information that may have helped Casey, because that is what JB will be urging them to conclude and they do have to give her the benefit of the doubt, so to speak....so if I was the SA, and really wanted a conviction, I'd be urging TES to co-operate as best they could, not by providing all info, but by providing any relevant info re that particular area.

I think the SA have a very strong case....but they have to run it properly and as fairly as possible. I only want to see people convicted after fair trials.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Blued by me

It is my understanding that Mr. Baez asked for the personal information from all of the searchers. That is totally different than asking what areas were searched. Mr. Baez stormed in, in bully fashion, demanding tantamount to all personal information except SS #s from anyone involved in the search. (Note to self....None of Caylee's family members personal records would be included) The bully got a beatdown today in the public eye. He will get another when the court rules against him. Had he called TES and asked for information about if that area was searched, he would have probably been told that it had not. Instead, Mr. Nejame told him in his legal response that it had not.

I searched with TES. I was between Boggy Creek and Narcoosee. Does this entitle Mr Baez to know my personal information? I was at least ten miles from where his client flung the bag containing a once vibrant little girl. The evidence we have seen so far is pretty overwhelming and sobering. The actions of the family and Mr Baez since July could not possibly be concocted in the minds of the best Hollywood writers, even with the aid of the best pharmaceuticals. His litany of poor motions and constant crying in the press are smokescreens. It is all he has, since even he knows what a horrid act his client masterminded and the nature of her involvement.

He has screwed up again by attacking an organization that has an exemplary reputation with the public. Maybe he does feel that the jury will think he was picked on. I feel that the jury will spend time thinking of their own 2 year olds and trying not to puke when they learn the extent of just how horrifying Caylee's last moments were.

"Bard" Nejame stepped up in a big way with this document. I am proud of him and Mr. Miller. I bet the search information JB is looking for is in LE files. He should learn to ask for it and how to ask for it.

I reckon the "Bard" is now up there on that sainthood list

There is no way he'll get the personal information for ALL volunteers. I anticipate he MAY argue that he has no choice but to ask for that as he has no way of knowing which volunteers may have relevant information, but hopefully that can be sorted out without much argument in Court. I was involved in a case where we were able to get all the personal and contact details for all people on a flight to see if any of them had witnessed anything relevant. Those weren't volunteers obviously, but where I come from the Courts are careful to ensure the defence aren't deprived of what might be relevant information...a situation with volunteers and a public policy argument is quite a different situation. From a legal perspective, it could be an interesting argument if it plays out in court.

And I agree that he's screwed up again by attacking TES. He's still very green as a defence lawyer and has an awful lot to learn. I think he may now be taking advice from more senior attorneys and hopefully will be taught to tone it down. Can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[mydailyopinions]

Maybe, just maybe Baez could have asked Tim personally about what areas was searched, when and what the findings were. And just maybe Tim would have shared that information with him because he is a good man! But noooo, Baez had to go filing motions, jumping the gun!
All along I said, Baez is not looking for a court fight, he is looking for a street fight when it comes to the integrity of TES and the searchers who volunteer their time!

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Spot on Bobby62 - neither JB nor the SA have any right to know citizens personal information, nor which groups they are members of without probable cause. Groups aren't required to submit their membership lists without a subpeona- and thats when they are SUBJECT to investigation.

TES can raise multiple constitutional arguments. But I think the Judge will rule in the interest of public policy and future volunteer efforts to keep all info secret. JB might be able to get the areas assigned to search, but NOTHING about individuals.

Thank you for your insight on this.

 

[Bobby62]

He's still very green as a defence lawyer and has an awful lot to learn. I think he may now be taking advice from more senior attorneys and hopefully will be taught to tone it down. Can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Respectfully snipped.

I hope you are right. I don't know a whole lot about his senior attorneys other than Mrs. Baden. From a layman's point of view she may be an all hat and no cattle kind of cowgirl. I guess we will see if they keep it a trial or morph it to a dog and pony show with mirrors and smoke machines.

I reckon they are buying the Cyberlights, F100's, Source Fours. and renting a few clowns now

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

If the prosecution were in any way involved or responsible for TES's reluctance to comply with JB's demands, I'd be somewhat inclined to agree with you. I, too, have wished at times that LE wouldn't appear to balk or stall about providing the defense with whatever they're entitled to have, because the defense is going to get it eventually anyway, and I don't want the jury to have any reason to find fault with LE.

On the other hand, to prevent that from happening, I'm not willing to see TES become a docile victim of JB's wrongful, pointless (and highly suspect IMO) demand for personal information about each and every searcher who aided us in the Caylee search.

Do you have any idea of the personal information that TES volunteer searchers are required to provide before they're given the "opportunity" to spend their own free time slogging through muck, getting attacked by insects, threatened by snakes, gouged by jungle-like growth, and roasting alive in the heat? Surely to God, in return for that, they deserve better from TES than having all their personal, private, (and occasionally embarrassing) information willingly offered up to the defense and then--via the Sunshine Act--served up like a platter of tasty hors d'oevures to a hundred million people on the internet?

This last is the part that troubles me far more than anything else. Think about why it does for a moment--have you no friends, children, or family members who in their youths, or long ago, got into a little trouble with LE--rightly or wrongly? You know the kind of family members or friends I mean--they're the sort of reckless, irresponsible youths, totally innocent, or reformed adults, who've now become so compassionate and so decent that they're now devoting their own time and efforts to a dreadful, sad, and desperately needed search for victims.



I agree the defense should be interested in ascertaining these things and that they have every right to ask TM and TES for answers to those questions! TM has the information about any TES-sponsored searches along Suburban Drive; in fact he's discussed that repeatedly in the media, and he isn't objecting to repeating it all for the benefit of the defense once again. Or twice more. Or six times more.

But that is NOT the extent of the information that JB has subpoenaed.



The truth about this case--absolutely! The personal facts and intimate details about every single uninvolved, volunteer searcher who entered the Orlando area over a period of months and who did not search the area at Suburban Drive? No! Absolutely Not! IMHO

Excellent post!

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

Respectfully snipped.

I hope you are right. I don't know a whole lot about his senior attorneys other than Mrs. Baden. From a layman's point of view she may be an all hat and no cattle kind of cowgirl. I guess we will see if they keep it a trial or morph it to a dog and pony show with mirrors and smoke machines.

I reckon they are buying the Cyberlights, F100's, Source Fours. and renting a few clowns now

I'm not from the USA, so until this case hadn't heard Baden's name. But what I have heard from her and her husband, does not impress me much. Does she have a good record? I would have thought more senior members of the Orlando Bar would be offering him assistance, but may be wrong. Where I come from we have what we call "an open door" policy, where lawyers are expected to help other lawyers out and many junior lawyers would have a number of senior lawyers that they would routinely call for advice.

 

[sweetmop]

Maybe, just maybe Baez could have asked Tim personally about what areas was searched, when and what the findings were. And just maybe Tim would have shared that information with him because he is a good man! But noooo, Baez had to go filing motions, jumping the gun!
All along I said, Baez is not looking for a court fight, he is looking for a street fight when it comes to the integrity of TES and the searchers who volunteer their time!

Great post!

 

[impatientredhead]

It is very important to establish if any searcher had looked in that area to establish if the bag was there when they searched.

Why do you all want people to withold evidence or make it difficult to find out the truth? It is only your opinion whether or not Casey knew that body was there.

If it was seen but wasn't looked in, then so be it. At least it would prove it was there! I am sure there were bags people did not look in or see on the searches for one reason or another. You ALL should want to find out the truth!

Do you want the jury to have a doubt that the bag was there because Tim is mad and doesn't want to aid in the defense at all? If that comes out during the trial it will only help Casey. IMHO this is a game that may backfire on the prosecution.

Think about it!

You think that TES has written records documenting whether that bag was there or not? How and why would they have that?

The point is that JB is overstepping his bounds by demanding records he has no legal right to. JB is welcome to investigate. He is welcome to request that searchers that were in that area contact him with any info they may have. There are no legal grounds that TES should have to invest the time and money in duplicating all of their records, violate the privacy of their searchers, and possibly harm future turn outs (oh by the way all of your personal info may be turned over to the defense whether we find a body or not, and depending on the state in which we are searching it may be published).

Those records are not part of discovery. JN I don't think the state should play games (not saying they are) with withholding anything they intend to use in court to prosecute his client. That is what she is entitled to and that is all that should happen. The rest of this is just hot air.

 

[fay]

I still can't figure out what he wanted with the list. Did he have plans to ask all of us if we moved the body? Honestly, this guy just throws stuff out to see what will stick.
Nejame wrote an excellent motion with good cases of law and stuck it to JB is an oh so subtle way.:dance:

 

[Angelfire]

It is very important to establish if any searcher had looked in that area to establish if the bag was there when they searched.

Why do you all want people to withold evidence or make it difficult to find out the truth? It is only your opinion whether or not Casey knew that body was there.

If it was seen but wasn't looked in, then so be it. At least it would prove it was there! I am sure there were bags people did not look in or see on the searches for one reason or another. You ALL should want to find out the truth!

Do you want the jury to have a doubt that the bag was there because Tim is mad and doesn't want to aid in the defense at all? If that comes out during the trial it will only help Casey. IMHO this is a game that may backfire on the prosecution.

Think about it!

I do not think anyone should withhold the truth, especially the Anthonys but the reason Tim Miller does not want to turn over reports on every single person who helped in the search is because they may not want all of their information broadcast to the public. Then also that could cause people in the future to decide they don't want to help because they would have their information made public. I think if they want to know if the area was searched then call Tim Miller to the stand and he would have the information ready to tell whether anyone was in that area and what was found or not found. I do not think for one minute that Tim is mad. In fact he still sees the Anthonys and prays for them. He also said he had over 20,000 lists that would have to be given to the defense. Can you imagine how much that would cost this man to have to go throught every record on every person who gave up their free time to look for this missing child? And yes, it is my opinion that Casey knew the bag was there...she put it there, not the nanny.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Finally!! Poetry in Motion!

 

[Trapshooter]

Blued by me

It is my understanding that Mr. Baez asked for the personal information from all of the searchers. That is totally different than asking what areas were searched. Mr. Baez stormed in, in bully fashion, demanding tantamount to all personal information except SS #s from anyone involved in the search. (Note to self....None of Caylee's family members personal records would be included) The bully got a beatdown today in the public eye. He will get another when the court rules against him. Had he called TES and asked for information about if that area was searched, he would have probably been told that it had not. Instead, Mr. Nejame told him in his legal response that it had not.

I searched with TES. I was between Boggy Creek and Narcoosee. Does this entitle Mr Baez to know my personal information? I was at least ten miles from where his client flung the bag containing a once vibrant little girl. The evidence we have seen so far is pretty overwhelming and sobering. The actions of the family and Mr Baez since July could not possibly be concocted in the minds of the best Hollywood writers, even with the aid of the best pharmaceuticals. His litany of poor motions and constant crying in the press are smokescreens. It is all he has, since even he knows what a horrid act his client masterminded and the nature of her involvement.

He has screwed up again by attacking an organization that has an exemplary reputation with the public. Maybe he does feel that the jury will think he was picked on. I feel that the jury will spend time thinking of their own 2 year olds and trying not to puke when they learn the extent of just how horrifying Caylee's last moments were.

"Bard" Nejame stepped up in a big way with this document. I am proud of him and Mr. Miller. I bet the search information JB is looking for is in LE files. He should learn to ask for it and how to ask for it.

I reckon the "Bard" is now up there on that sainthood list

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Great post Bobby62!

Great point too about gaining information about the private citizens that helped TES.

Just for the sake of arguing, let's say that I helped TM and TES. We weren't able to search the area where Caylee's body was found because it was definitely under water but we were close in proximity to the area. Okay, months go by and the body is found. JB gets the information from TES that I was there searching. JB finds all personal information about me that can be used in court. He finds that although I live in Virginia, I travel all the way to Florida to help TES. He then finds that I post on WS. He reads my posts here and reads that I believe KC killed Caylee. JB takes it a step further and accuses me of having "planted" the body! Now not only has he been grasping at straws, he has accused a private citizen that helped in the search for Caylee! The ramifications of gaining personal information about private citizens would be way beyond our civil rights and the right to privacy. Agree?

 

[Bobby62]

Trapshooter,

Take it a step further. You have given TES your name, address, phone number, cell number, email, lists of skills and equipment you may possess, past criminal history, etc. It all becomes public record and subject to being published on page one of the Orlando Sentinel. Some of the local media have been redaction impaired when publishing innocents information.

It is all just theory anyway. Mr Nejame stepped up and is putting a stop to this angle of foolishness tommorow. Mr. Baez was just wrong on so many levels, as artfully pointed out by Mr. Nejame. I expect the more experienced attorneys in his stable to step up and help him from here on out. Being the public's and legal system's whipping boy is counter productive for all of them.

 

[Trapshooter]

Amen Bobby62!

Thank heavens Mr. NeJame is an experienced and accomplished attorney!

I lost a very dear friend last year. He had just been promoted to Circuit Court Judge. He would've LOVED this brouhaha with the Baez camp. I wish he was still around so he could share his wisdom and laughs with me!