Benjaman Kyle Statement from Owner of Websleuths.com

[Cubby]

From the doe page posted above.

• Dentals: Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side of mouth. Not known whether dental problems occurred after or as result of mugging in August of 2004.


Now the above makes no sense. First we know there was never a beating or mugging. Secondly, when a tooth falls out the socket is either fresh or healed. It makes no sense that if a beating actually occured someone could not determine if the sockets were fresh or healed from teeth removed some time ago.

Ah the inconsistencies keep coming....

 

[Cubby]

• Medical: Blinding cataracts in both eyes may have resulted from prolonged exposure to sun while unconscious prior to being found and brought to hospital.

Bk was not reportedly seen when the Burger King closed the evening prior to his being found. As previously posted, the last workers who took that evenings trash out did not see him. He was not 'unconsious' when found in the early morning hours so the sun would not have been up long enough that morning to cause any cataracts.

I don't know, but is it possible for someone to be unconsious with their eyes open?

Both the information regarding the missing teeth and blinding cataracts are indicitive of BK going without medical care for some time prior to his discovery.

 

[Cubby]

locking the thread again until later... good night everyone.

 

[Julessleuther]

Boy, now that we are looking at this with REALLY "fresh" eyes, there really are so many inconsistancies, aren't there!

Regarding Nerosleuths post:

The neck scar appeared to be from a cervical discotomy: The word should actually be discectomy (according to what I researched). This is done when there is neck pain. We have a friend who had similar surgery when he was in his late 50's. He is now in his late 60's and although the surgery helped, he still has neck pain. I am curious if BK still has neck pain.

I agree with Cubby on the teeth. Were the areas in his mouth where the teeth were healed (thus teeth pulled at an earlier time)?

 

[dreamweaver]

I have posted this before, but here goes:
I have worked on this thread since late 2008.
I noted several times I got an 'off' feeling about BK, something
just did not feel right.
I was taken to task for this. Mainly because, WS does see
the person discussed as the victim. I got the message.
I continued to work on his case.
I still had doubts.

After the fresh start thread began, I really had doubts.
For me, the questions were, has anything been
independently confirmed?
I made a decision not to put any detailed work
into this thread.
But I still wanted to discover his identity.
I felt he had part of his memory back. At that time.

I did express my increasing doubts to other posters
who had much more experience than I did.
I did this by private email.
One poster reminded me of the information already obtained
and already posted about BK and the morning he was
taken to the hospital.

I had 'forgotten' this information.
Until I read it again, then I remembered.

At that point, I just stopped in once in awhile at
BK's thread, read the new posts.

And then when the new dna came out
as matching with the Davidson family line came out,
something clicked with me.
I did research the Davidson name.

That led me to the Robert Davidson on amw.com.
Julessleuther had found this mention as well.
I have talked with US Marshall's office
and expect a call back.
The Marshall specifically said I would receive a phone call,
one way or another.
(It's a long shot as to whether it is a match or not.)

There was no secret meeting of long time posters on this thread about
BK. In my case, just a few emails by me expressing my doubts.
I think the 'pot just boiled over' and lots of us thought, 'uh huh, that's what my uneasy feeling was..

Wish BK would come online with a prepared statement and say what it is he wants to say.
Doubt that he will.

 

[dreamweaver]

Boy, now that we are looking at this with REALLY "fresh" eyes, there really are so many inconsistancies, aren't there!

Regarding Nerosleuths post:

The neck scar appeared to be from a cervical discotomy: The word should actually be discectomy (according to what I researched). This is done when there is neck pain. We have a friend who had similar surgery when he was in his late 50's. He is now in his late 60's and although the surgery helped, he still has neck pain. I am curious if BK still has neck pain.

I agree with Cubby on the teeth. Were the areas in his mouth where the teeth were healed (thus teeth pulled at an earlier time)?

Jules:
Yes, I am of the same thought.
Now I question everything I thought was true.

 

[dreamweaver]

fyi to other BK thread posters:
Jules and I and several others worked on the Juan Doe, amnesia victim, thread.

I spoke with Juan Doe and he was very eager to answer questions, anything that would help him remember or find his family.
Jules found his pic on the missing TX web site.
His family was thrilled.
I talked with the police and Juan Does' brother.
They drove all night to see him and bring him home.
Juan D happened to have been found in AZ.

Juan was about 180 degrees in his behavior
as opposed to BK.

 

[believe09]

The information posted on the Doe Network was provided by Nurse Betty. She used to be listed as a resource to contact-I would have to check again to see if that has been removed. I know Bill Kirkconnell of the FBI is listed.

Interesting that Richmond Hill PD was not...again this is hindsight.

The cataract story has been picked apart a whole lot-almost from day one when we had people who had MD experience (IIRC) doubting the traumatic cataract theory because his retinas were intact. Traumatic cataracts can form rapidly if someone is an alcohol or drug abuser-we were told by NB and BK first that his tox screens were clean. Then it was that his tox screens were "surprisingly normal." Soooo, unless he was taking steroids, the rapidly forming cataract theory did not hold water really. I can say I never believed it anyway because it made no sense to me-I thought at the time that the clue to a slowly closing field of vision was BK's self-proclaimed statements from when his vision was restored...that he had lost 20 years. I believed that to mean that his vision had started changing slowly many years ago.

We could pick apart this stuff forever I think....at the end of the day, we have only BK and NB's word on his height, weight, scars and personal memories. We have no independent verification of any of it. The things we have independent verification of do not match AT ALL the version of events they have put forward.

For me, that makes me extremely sceptical of the rest.

 

[Julessleuther]

Dream--

Your Robert Davidson find is what put me over the edge. Even though BK may turn out not to be Robert Davidson, the fact that people were looking at "alternate scenarios" set the light bulb off in my head.

Noone forced me to have an opinion here. Noone swayed me in one way or another. I was not pressured to believe one particular idealogy about BK. I forced myself. I saw BK as a victim. Although I had some doubts in the past, I tried to push them away as being a suspicious person, which in my mind I find to be a rude trait of myself. I rarely trust anyone unless I get to know them well. I was ashamed that I did not completely trust BK and the "evidence" we were being presented with.

Even when presented with evidence that there were not outward signs of a beating I still saw him as a victim, so continued to help find answers. But there were so many questions in the back of my mind, and when I or someone else asked those questions, little bells went off, and I would silence them, because he was the "victim." Questions such as:

He remembers grill cheese at a state fair, but does not remember one single holiday memory with family?

He has memories of the restaurant industry but not of anyone he worked with or any specific jobs he had?

He remembers being in a library at U of Boulder, but did not remember any professors or lectures he took?

His continued comments about not liking to be around other people, his comment about wine drinkers being snobs, and skiiers being snobs. He had definite opinions on people and appeared to be quite anti-social, yet he worked in an extremely social industry (restaurants)? His comments about the Aspen Food Festival were eye-brow raising too. I have not been, but have several restaurant friends who have been, and it is the cream of the crop for gourmet cooking. It is a very respected food and wine festival, and if he really worked in food, he would know that. While it may seem silly to most, it was a HUGE red flag to me. Someone in that kind of industry would not have the attitude that he had about it. I had a small catering business years ago, and in my spare time currently have a cooking blog. I would almost kill to go to Aspen Food festival.

Although I feel sorry for BK (that he felt the need to perpetuate this), I do not necessarily see him as the victim anymore. He knowingly did some things that were inappropriate. He allowed false information to be included in his story and did not budge from that story. If he is capable of that kind of deception, I am now certain he is capable of much more. I no longer believe that much of anything that he has said is true.

 

[Julessleuther]

Is it not interesting that BK started posting more about the same time all of the Juan Doe stuff was going on? We received a wealth of "information" and partial memories around this time. Perhaps to steer us away from something? Wow.

fyi to other BK thread posters:
Jules and I and several others worked on the Juan Doe, amnesia victim, thread.

I spoke with Juan Doe and he was very eager to answer questions, anything that would help him remember or find his family.
Jules found his pic on the missing TX web site.
His family was thrilled.
I talked with the police and Juan Does' brother.
They drove all night to see him and bring him home.
Juan D happened to have been found in AZ.

Juan was about 180 degrees in his behavior
as opposed to BK.

 

[TheGodfather]

Julessleuther - I also found that the kinds of memories he had were very odd. People would ask him questions, and he would be so casual in his answers about certain kinds of food and places, as if he had no problem remembering them at all. It seemed so easy for him to remember such specific memories in detail, yet he didn't remember a single thing that would help find his identity.

One thing I saw that raised a red flag for me early on was a comment he made about cigarettes. He said he remembered buying a specific brand of cigarette by the carton for a specific price somewhere in Colorado. Yet I previously read that medical tests showed he never abused alcohol, drugs, or tobacco. At first I thought "well it's possible he smoked a long time ago but quit, and it wasn't enough to show up on any tests." Then I realized, how could a doctor or any medical test tell you definitively if you've ever abused these substances?

Edit - I just wish Benjaman would explain himself. It is becoming extremely obvious that a lot of things don't add up, and these inconsistencies aren't going to just go away. More and more people are going to come to the same conclusions we have about his story, and eventually he's going to be confronted with it all by someone. I wonder if the people working on the documentary have realized any of this? It is inevitable that the word is going to spread and he won't be able to continue living as an amnesiac.

 

[dreamweaver]

The information posted on the Doe Network was provided by Nurse Betty. She used to be listed as a resource to contact-I would have to check again to see if that has been removed. I know Bill Kirkconnell of the FBI is listed.

Interesting that Richmond Hill PD was not...again this is hindsight.

The cataract story has been picked apart a whole lot-almost from day one when we had people who had MD experience (IIRC) doubting the traumatic cataract theory because his retinas were intact. Traumatic cataracts can form rapidly if someone is an alcohol or drug abuser-we were told by NB and BK first that his tox screens were clean. Then it was that his tox screens were "surprisingly normal." Soooo, unless he was taking steroids, the rapidly forming cataract theory did not hold water really. I can say I never believed it anyway because it made no sense to me-I thought at the time that the clue to a slowly closing field of vision was BK's self-proclaimed statements from when his vision was restored...that he had lost 20 years. I believed that to mean that his vision had started changing slowly many years ago.

We could pick apart this stuff forever I think....at the end of the day, we have only BK and NB's word on his height, weight, scars and personal memories. We have no independent verification of any of it. The things we have independent verification of do not match AT ALL the version of events they have put forward.

For me, that makes me extremely sceptical of the rest.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1007umga.html
Source information is NB.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

You know Tricia, that is what I had said, LE would not be qualified to diagnose someone with scabies. I had commented that we had known for along time that BK had not been beaten, and that he was sunburned, naked, had sores, and was unresponsive when found.

kentjbkent commented back that LE never said that BK was unresponsive and that BK was SLEEPING next to the dumpster (yet you posted that BK was PASSED OUT next to the dumpster and that we could decide for ourselves what would cause BK to be passed out by the dumpster).

Kentjbkent also said that LE said that BK did not have sores but SCABIES and that was backed up by EMT reports. So, it seems to me that either LE did "diagnose" Benjaman with scabies as noted by kentjbkent's comments or they did not.

Now, as far as finding Benjaman sleeping next to the dumpster and the condition he was found in. In the incident report posted by Roselvr under the Resource sub-forum it says that Benjaman was found sleeping near the dumpster and notes he was semi-conscious and that he would not answer their questions.

ETA: I just wanted to add a thought about why it is possible BK did not/would not answer LE's questions. Let's "imagine" for a moment that BK really did have amnesia and BK wakes up not knowing who he is, where he is, etc. The police ask"What's your name?" Where do you live, sir?" What are you doing out here?" If Benjaman doesn't know these things, how is he going to answer?

In Kentjbkent's post below s/he states that Benjaman was easily aroused. That isn't noted anywhere in the incident reports that Roselvr posted. I ask again, is there another incident report besides the ones Roselvr posted?

I also wanted to add that the EMT who was interviewed on the Dr. Phil show described BK as being "unresponsive" and that "he had a lot of sores"

Question by RKnowley: 2. What we did know was that he was found naked, sunburned, had sores & was unresponsive next to a dumpster at Burger King.

Answer by Kentjbkent:According to RHPD detectives, BK was found naked but was not sunburned nor had sores. He was covered in scabies. RHPD states this is also reflected in EMT reports. RHPD also stated that BK was not "unresponsive". He was sleeping near the dumpster inside the corral when officers arrived on the scene but was easily aroused. The "unresponsive" description was in relation to his reluctance to answer any questions posed by officers, apart from complaining of back pain.

The police are not qualified to diagnose scabies. Therefore it would not be in the incident report.

 

[justthinkin]

fyi to other BK thread posters:
Jules and I and several others worked on the Juan Doe, amnesia victim, thread.

I spoke with Juan Doe and he was very eager to answer questions, anything that would help him remember or find his family.
Jules found his pic on the missing TX web site.
His family was thrilled.
I talked with the police and Juan Does' brother.
They drove all night to see him and bring him home.
Juan D happened to have been found in AZ.

Juan was about 180 degrees in his behavior
as opposed to BK.

I was thrilled when you, two, were able to get Juan reunited with his family. And I remember being one of the ones who thought he looked like he was smirking in his hospital picture, and expressed my doubts.
Poor Juan. He was the real McCoy, and BK? Well....

Even nuttier, is I have always had doubts about BK, but at one point came around to believing his story was legit, though I never invested anywhere near the time that you or others did, and my doubts soon reappeared, esp. with the Q and A thread. Yet, I still wanted to know who he was. Amnesia or no amnesia the mystery remains.

Now I think back to BK and his short splash of chiefly British spellings of some words, and have to think that was an attempt to send everyone as far off track as possible.

 

[nerosleuth]

Boy, now that we are looking at this with REALLY "fresh" eyes, there really are so many inconsistancies, aren't there!

Regarding Nerosleuths post:

The neck scar appeared to be from a cervical discotomy: The word should actually be discectomy (according to what I researched). This is done when there is neck pain. We have a friend who had similar surgery when he was in his late 50's. He is now in his late 60's and although the surgery helped, he still has neck pain. I am curious if BK still has neck pain.

I agree with Cubby on the teeth. Were the areas in his mouth where the teeth were healed (thus teeth pulled at an earlier time)?

Julessleuther, you are correct that the word should be discectomy. Thanks for pointing that out for me. It was a late night spelling mistake on my part.

 

[Julessleuther]

Oh my, I did not mean to appear I was correcting you! :blushing: You cut and pasted from Doe, didn't you? I swear I have seen it somewhere else listed as a discotomy too! Is this the same thing as back disc surgery, but in the neck? I do not understand medical lingo at all! I just wiki all of that!

Julessleuther, you are correct that the word should be discectomy. Thanks for pointing that out for me. It was a late night spelling mistake on my part.

 

[Kentjbkent]

You know Tricia, that is what I had said, LE would not be qualified to diagnose someone with scabies. I had commented that we had known for along time that BK had not been beaten, and that he was sunburned, naked, had sores, and was unresponsive when found.

kentjbkent commented back that LE never said that BK was unresponsive and that BK was SLEEPING next to the dumpster (yet you posted that BK was PASSED OUT next to the dumpster and that we could decide for ourselves what would cause BK to be passed out by the dumpster).

Kentjbkent also said that LE said that BK did not have sores but SCABIES and that was backed up by EMT reports. So, it seems to me that either LE did "diagnose" Benjaman with scabies as noted by kentjbkent's comments or they did not.

Now, as far as finding Benjaman sleeping next to the dumpster and the condition he was found in. In the incident report posted by Roselvr under the Resource sub-forum it says that Benjaman was found sleeping near the dumpster and notes he was semi-conscious and that he would not answer their questions.

ETA: I just wanted to add a thought about why it is possible BK did not/would not answer LE's questions. Let's "imagine" for a moment that BK really did have amnesia and BK wakes up not knowing who he is, where he is, etc. The police ask"What's your name?" Where do you live, sir?" What are you doing out here?" If Benjaman doesn't know these things, how is he going to answer?

In Kentjbkent's post below s/he states that Benjaman was easily aroused. That isn't noted anywhere in the incident reports that Roselvr posted. I ask again, is there another incident report besides the ones Roselvr posted?

I also wanted to add that the EMT who was interviewed on the Dr. Phil show described BK as being "unresponsive" and that "he had a lot of sores"

Lots to comment on here but first wanted to make sure you are clear on the EMT reports.

There is MORE than one EMT report. Benjaman was transported by ambulance, accompanied by EMTs, on at least THREE occasions, and ALL THREE would generate an EMT report of transit.

The FIRST EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transported from Burger King to St Josephs Hospital. At that time, EMT filled out a report concerning the condition of BK, but did NOT diagnose any medical conditions (hence, their "sores" reference....they are NOT physicians).

The SECOND EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transferred to East Georgia. At the time of this transport, Benjaman HAD received an official diagnosis by a physician and these diagnosis would be reflected in this EMT/transport record.

The THIRD EMT report was generated when Benjaman was transported (transferred) to Memorial Hospital. Like the second transport, Benjaman had been diagnosed at this point and the EMT report for this tranport would include his diagnosis.

There may yet be a fourth EMT report depending on whether or not Benjaman was transported by ambulance to Union Mission upon his discharge from Memorial Health.

 

[nerosleuth]

When you take a good hard look at all of this, there are so many inconsistencies.

The RHPD police report and the case info from BK's Doe Network page are so far apart.

When the police officers arrived on the scene, their report did not say that there were any visible injuries that would be consistent with an assault or an robbery. If the officers had seen any kind of visible injuries, it would have been noted in their report.

The police report also didn't say that whether BK appeared to be under the influence of alcohol or drugs. It would have been noted in their report if that was the case.

When BK went to the ER, the first thing a ER physician will order is a tox screen. Now we really don't know the real results of BK's tox report don't we?

If the tox report had found any alcohol or illegal substance in BK's system, that finding would have been reported to the police.

During the ER examination, if there were any injuries that were found to be consistent of an assault or any kind of a crime, that finding also would have been reported to the police.

If the info in the Doe Report was inaccurate, then why did BK allow it to be inaccurate?

 

[Kentjbkent]

You know Tricia, that is what I had said, LE would not be qualified to diagnose someone with scabies. I had commented that we had known for along time that BK had not been beaten, and that he was sunburned, naked, had sores, and was unresponsive when found.

kentjbkent commented back that LE never said that BK was unresponsive and that BK was SLEEPING next to the dumpster (yet you posted that BK was PASSED OUT next to the dumpster and that we could decide for ourselves what would cause BK to be passed out by the dumpster).

Kentjbkent also said that LE said that BK did not have sores but SCABIES and that was backed up by EMT reports. So, it seems to me that either LE did "diagnose" Benjaman with scabies as noted by kentjbkent's comments or they did not.

Now, as far as finding Benjaman sleeping next to the dumpster and the condition he was found in. In the incident report posted by Roselvr under the Resource sub-forum it says that Benjaman was found sleeping near the dumpster and notes he was semi-conscious and that he would not answer their questions.

ETA: I just wanted to add a thought about why it is possible BK did not/would not answer LE's questions. Let's "imagine" for a moment that BK really did have amnesia and BK wakes up not knowing who he is, where he is, etc. The police ask"What's your name?" Where do you live, sir?" What are you doing out here?" If Benjaman doesn't know these things, how is he going to answer?

In Kentjbkent's post below s/he states that Benjaman was easily aroused. That isn't noted anywhere in the incident reports that Roselvr posted. I ask again, is there another incident report besides the ones Roselvr posted?

I also wanted to add that the EMT who was interviewed on the Dr. Phil show described BK as being "unresponsive" and that "he had a lot of sores"

I think there may be some confusion as to the definition of the terms "unresponsive" and "unconscious".

When I spoke to RHPD, they described Benjaman as "unresponsive" in reference to their line of questioning. At no point did RHPD ever claim that Benjaman was UNCONSCIOUS. What they stated to me (and what I believe is reflected in the one and only incident report written on this event) is that Benjaman was "unresponsive in regards to their questions". I believe this is reflected in the incident report as well as evidenced below....

In the incident report posted by Roselvr under the Resource sub-forum it says that Benjaman was found sleeping near the dumpster and notes he was semi-conscious and that he would not answer their questions.

(Actually, very similar to his behavior on this forum, imo. He has been unresponsive to a lot of questions posed by our members as well.)

There could be many avenues of speculation as to why Benjaman was unresponsive to questions asked by RHPD and you gave a very good example of one. Another could be that when he was awakened to see LE standing over him, he was afraid, especially if he was running or hiding from law enforcement. That would be another good reason to keep your mouth shut....

 

[Cubby]

Everything about retrograde amnesia indicates the cause is a result of brain trauma. Not psychological trauma. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have not read retrograde amnesia is caused from anything other than brain trauma or brain damage of somekind. There has NEVER been any credible reports that BK has ANY kind of brain trauma. Also, everything indicates retrograde amnesia is very very rare. Nor does any written information regarding retrograde amnesia indicate one would forget just about everything.

Who came up with the diagnosis of retrograde amnesia? Did it come from a real doctor or did it come from NB?