CO CO - Kayleah Wilson, 12, Greeley, 28 March 2010 - #6

[panthera]

Colorado

§18-3-402

Sexual assault to knowingly inflicts sexual intrusion or sexual penetration on a victim (1) under age 15 if the actor is at least four years older or (2) at least 15 years old but less than 17 years old and the actor is at least 10 years older.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm

Thanks so much! Good to know he has no defense and can't say he fell in love with her while he was a minor, etc............MOO

 

[human]

This conversation about "love" between a 12 year old and an 18 year old reminds me of the group that is something like Man Boy love or something like that where adults think it's OK to have sex with children. I think it's that group or another one that says "Sex before 8 or it's too late".

That crazy Karr guy is starting some kind of JonBenet thing by trying to get 4 year olds in his group.

That crazy Newman guy thought that he could marry an 8 year old.

There are plenty of "religious" people such as that crazy guy from Waco who thought it was OK to have children as sex partners.

So, sure, some people think it's OK.

I, however, am glad that they lock these people up nowadays.

Even though some people may have stayed with their marital partners for a million years, it doesn't mean that the relationship was healthy.

No matter how you slice or dice it, a 12 year old is a child. Men will somehow have to learn to control themselves. If not possible, lock them up.

 

[Noway]

~snipped from BeanE's Post 313~

... Robert Montoya will also be in court on Tuesday. He is in jail and tentatively charged with felony sex assault on a child.

 

[revampz]

I'm going to say something unpopular. But I agree with you on about half of what you said.

I find our society so hypocritical. You have Miley Cyrus gyrating half naked on stage with a stripper pole or giving lap dances. Girls that are underage are super sexualized, but are completely off limits. Look but don't touch. Oh but wait, don't look either.

We can't have it both ways. Censorship of underage girls needs to be stronger-they need to be more covered up and less sexual when performing.

I'm not saying Kayleah deserved anything that happened to her, or defending SO's in any way. I just feel like the media shouldn't be exploiting girls this age and then have the massive witch hunts when men act on it for the entertainment of the masses. Something is wrong here!

HERE HERE!!!!! Totally agree with you.......in fact I think even the Beyonce's, Brittany Speers etc totally cross the line......young girls look up to these role models and want to dress like them....

My husband and I watch the "modern" music clips every now and then and they all seem to consist of scantilly clad women gyrating in front of the camera.....he laughs and reckons it gets boring cause they are all doing the same thing....

and yet we have censorship......

Girls are becoming way too sexualised too young and I do blame these pop stars and media....it is so sad, they are losing their childhood....

You know when I was 12 I was still secretly playing with my barbie dolls ...this was the first year of high school for me.....and you know what 2 girls in my grade (out of about 200) got pregnant.........it was awful

 

[panthera]

~snipped from BeanE's Post 313~

... Robert Montoya will also be in court on Tuesday. He is in jail and tentatively charged with felony sex assault on a child.

I noticed the word "tentatively" in the post. Maybe new charges are expected to be filed? :waitasec: MOO

 

[White Hawk]

And speaking of him being a juvenile until Jan. 18: they supposedly started seeing each other last fall, while he was a minor. They supposedly continue to see each other past Jan. 18 when he turned 18 and became an adult. What I'm trying to figure out, not knowing the law in Colorado, is if there was anything legally wrong with them being together before Jan. 18? I'm trying to get a feel for what his defense might try to come up with. :waitasec: I'm not condoning it at all, just want to know what the law there is. MOO

Many, if not most states, have laws that protect children under the age of 14 years old. The answer to your question is YES.

 

[Natal]

Whew....for a while now, I have been convinced that you were promoting a particular agenda, but now I see we are in complete agreement.....:dance:

You stated above....

I think a more logical approach would be to criminalize situations which involve a position of trust or power (direct or implicit),

.....and I completely agree.

In THIS case, the 18 year old held a position of power and possibly trust over the 12 year old (age would dictate this...they are not peers), so the situation SHOULD be criminalized.....which it WAS....when LE ARRESTED this PERP (not the word I WANTED to use!)

Under normal cirmcumstances I would agree, but in this case they had mutual friends of an intermediate age, so they were outliers in the social groups age range. Therefore NOT a position of power or trust.

 

[cluciano63]

I may be wrong, but I don't see this guy as some mastermind trying to get with little girls...I just think that he could not attract girls his own age for whatever reason and Kayleah may have responded to him. I can't help but think that friends, etc, knew about their association, since RM was a friend of Kayleah's brother. Still, he had to know on some level, even if he is not very bright, that being with Kayleah in any intimate way was against the law, even if she stated that she wanted to be with him. Actually, I am hoping he is not very bright, so as to have left more evidence if he did indeed kill her. LE has indicated that they have quite a lot of physical evidence to sort through, did not say anything specific.

 

[panthera]

I may be wrong, but I don't see this guy as some mastermind trying to get with little girls...I just think that he could not attract girls his own age for whatever reason and Kayleah may have responded to him. I can't help but think that friends, etc, knew about their association, since RM was a friend of Kayleah's brother. Still, he had to know on some level, even if he is not very bright, that being with Kayleah in any intimate way was against the law, even if she stated that she wanted to be with him. Actually, I am hoping he is not very bright, so as to have left more evidence if he did indeed kill her. LE has indicated that they have quite a lot of physical evidence to sort through, did not say anything specific.

I don't think he's very bright at all or he'd know the consequences of sexual activity with a 12 y/o girl. However I also hope he isn't mentally impaired or some other "defense" to the charges he's facing. MOO

 

[human]

Under normal cirmcumstances I would agree, but in this case they had mutual friends of an intermediate age, so they were outliers in the social groups age range. Therefore NOT a position of power or trust.

An 18 year old is in a position of power over a 12 year old. He's 18; she's 12. It doesn't matter if they are in a "friend" group.

My profession is to work with parents. I am not allowed to have a friendship with them for 2 years after I have worked with them. I have no power over them, but since I am a professional, it is considered unethical.

12 year olds, no matter how "mature" they may look physically do not mentally have the ability to make certain mature decisions. That includes sex and choosing friends, sometimes. That is why they are considered children.

That is why it is our job as adults to guide and protect them.

If some people do not think that a 12 year old is a child, there is probably no evidence that would convince them.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Under normal cirmcumstances I would agree, but in this case they had mutual friends of an intermediate age, so they were outliers in the social groups age range. Therefore NOT a position of power or trust.

Aw, I would tend to agree if there was any evidence that any of these sexual encounters took place in a "group setting"...

But the mere fact that she had aquaintances within the same "social group age range" as you state, is not indicative that he did not hold a position of power or trust over her during the period of time when he satisfying his sexual urges, with or without this "social group" present.

I wish I knew more about your South African culture, because I am really struggling to try to understand your reasoning as to why it was appropriate for this adult male to perform sexual acts on this child, or why you would believe she legally had a "consensual" choice? :waitasec:

 

[Kentjbkent]

I don't think he's very bright at all or he'd know the consequences of sexual activity with a 12 y/o girl. However I also hope he isn't mentally impaired or some other "defense" to the charges he's facing. MOO

Oh, I fully expect to hear of "some other defense".....can we say mitigation specialist?

 

[sleutherontheside]

Under normal cirmcumstances I would agree, but in this case they had mutual friends of an intermediate age, so they were outliers in the social groups age range. Therefore NOT a position of power or trust.

BBM
Can you explain to me how you would be able to make this generalization?

This is clearly your personal opinion. As such it should not be presented as fact.

 

[cluciano63]

Has there been any news about RM or his family situation? I don't think it is even known if he was still attending school, had dropped out, had a jbo or anything...just wondering what the rest of his story is...

 

[Kentjbkent]

I may be wrong, but I don't see this guy as some mastermind trying to get with little girls...I just think that he could not attract girls his own age for whatever reason and Kayleah may have responded to him. I can't help but think that friends, etc, knew about their association, since RM was a friend of Kayleah's brother. Still, he had to know on some level, even if he is not very bright, that being with Kayleah in any intimate way was against the law, even if she stated that she wanted to be with him. Actually, I am hoping he is not very bright, so as to have left more evidence if he did indeed kill her. LE has indicated that they have quite a lot of physical evidence to sort through, did not say anything specific.

That just struck a note with me. I have had two friends in the past who have shared stories with me of what they refer to as "rape" when they were younger...

One friend told the story of how her parents went out of town and her older brother had a party at their house. One of his friends snuck upstairs and raped her in her bed. She said she didn't tell her parents for quite a while as she was afraid, but when her behavior and grades dropped, they confronted her and she finally told.

The second friend just recently told me a story about when she was 14. It was also a situation involving a friend of her older brothers, but it was on more than one occasion. She never told anyone.

So I think it is totally reasonable that this could be a similar situation involving a friend of her brothers....but in all three cases here, they were ALL CRIMINAL ACTS.

 

[cluciano63]

I didn't say they weren't criminal acts...obviously they were and he has been charged accordingly.
However if her mother had to break them up them, it seems like they had some sort of a relationship that was known about by others, rather than secret acts of rape. Of course it is statuatory rape, no matter what took place.

 

[panthera]

Oh, I fully expect to hear of "some other defense".....can we say mitigation specialist?

I'm fully expecting it too, and that is why I'm trying to rule out that he couldn't be aware he was committing a crime, even before he turned 18. And I too would like to know about his academic records, IQ, etc. MOO

 

[Tricia]

Well, see things from a 12 year olds point of view. When they become aware of their sexuality they look to kids somewhat older than themselves, someone more experienced. At least when I was 12 that was how things worked, maybe things have changed now I don't know. I remember very well becoming suddenly interested in girls when I was that age, but, the problem was that the girls we were classmates with had zero interest in us, they wanted older boys. The boys were more interested in girls that looked like women as well, they also wanted older, but of course older girls had less than zero interest in us. Girls don't face that barrier though, so you see situations like this one. At that age you look to where you want to be, which is more "grown up", and not with your peers who you see as children.

I think it is pretty normal for girls that age to have male friends older than them, and for an outside adult observer even a few years might seem a lot, but that isnt how it appears to the kids involved. At 18 this guy is pushing the limits but something like that could happen if there is a mutual friend at a bridging age (like 15 or 16).

I think the irony of all of this though is that in this case, if she was pregnant, the possibility exists that she might have been killed in a panic specifically because of the laws against that sort of relationship. And if that is the case, it would be the greatest shame of all because it would be so unnecessary.

A 12 year old having sex with an 18 year old is wrong. No changed laws would have saved her except the law that it is illegal to kill someone.

Please, let's stay on topic. The topic being Kayleah.

 

['Ailina]

Under normal cirmcumstances I would agree, but in this case they had mutual friends of an intermediate age, so they were outliers in the social groups age range. Therefore NOT a position of power or trust.

I personally don't accept this age range as an equalizer.

My son is on the high end of 17. Two of my daughters are 11 & 13. They share mutual friends/family friends and are a tight-knit group. They participate in many of the same activities.

Even still, the maturity distinction is very clear. Each subset shows very marked conventions of behavior and experience milestones. Granted, they may overlap in many areas, but SEX is one of the main areas where these groups are widely separated.

Why? Why is there a distinction? Because there's a natural phase of physical/mental/emotional/psychological maturation that older teens have experienced and preteens/younger teens have not. Society recognizes that distinction and seeks to preserve it -- not because we're prudes or high-minded, but because we're aware of what happens to these young people when we don't preserve it.

MOO

 

[Kentjbkent]

I personally don't accept this age range as an equalizer.

My son is on the high end of 17. Two of my daughters are 11 & 13. They share mutual friends/family friends and are a tight-knit group. They participate in many of the same activities.

Even still, the maturity distinction is very clear. Each subset shows very marked conventions of behavior and experience milestones. Granted, they may overlap in many areas, but SEX is one of the main areas where these groups are widely separated.

Why? Why is there a distinction? Because there's a natural phase of physical/mental/emotional/psychological maturation that older teens have experienced and preteens/younger teens have not. Society recognizes that distinction and seeks to preserve it -- not because we're prudes or high-minded, but because we're aware of what happens to these young people when we don't preserve it.

MOO

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