Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

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this is basically what i was trying to say songline...i'm sorry about your daughter...imo and experience girls are not diagnosed as early as boys and are often given less serious "labels" if you will...i am very sorry for your experience but as you say so very well, joran was having serious problems early on and apparently ongoing and for serious things that were "willfully" denied and unacceptably blamed on others...i do see the differentiation between willfull and unconcious denial but we may all never agree on which was the case here.... all :cow:

With a father like his and a chief of police in the pocket. I am sure it was willful denial.She was not living under a rock.
I think that knowing her son is a sick person she will make an attempt to get him medicated not knifed. But I am afraid it is too late, the crime was done in Peru, so the time has to be done in Peru too. I was saying she knew. not that she was in denial in case I was misunderstood.
Thank you for your sensitivity to me you are a sweetie :angel:
 
I can understand a lot of what you're saying...what doesn't reconcile is the way he's been seemingly taunting everyone about NH for years and even now little things like "catch me if you can" if that was correctly reported...I can see him being a tortured individual but this taunting is not exactly what I would expect from a fragile psyche because these are more grandiose actions than angry actions...imo...

I think you are right and I think grandiose actions are part of it. Kind of like a shield. The taunting of the Holloway's is unforgiveable, but I am sure he was paid for every interview he gave and to him that was a way of existing and making money. I don't believe he has a consicience and thinks anything he does is okay.jmo
 
Very true. I think the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose the support of their family, especially their mother, and even though they deserve it. MOO


As a mother...It breaks my heart. I can't even imagine EVER getting to the point where I felt I couldn't embrace my son or visit him. EVEN under Joran's circumstances. It's inconceivable to me. BUT I only have one son, his mother has other children she needs to worry about.
 
Natalee Holloway: Updated on TLC now.

Started at 8p EDT, so it's almost over but it repeats at 11.
 
Doesn't sound like she is too strapped for money. Pretty pricey school. jmo

Don't forget Joran himself had a scholarship for playing soccer, I think for a college her in FL. So maybe a scholarship was also there for brother
 
:blowkiss:
With a father like his and a chief of police in the pocket. I am sure it was willful denial.She was not living under a rock.
I think that knowing her son is a sick person she will make an attempt to get him medicated not knifed. But I am afraid it is too late, the crime was done in Peru, so the time has to be done in Peru too. I was saying she knew. not that she was in denial in case I was misunderstood.
Thank you for your sensitivity to me you are a sweetie :angel:

:blowkiss: you, too!
 
Believe attending Boston U or Boston C.

ETA: Correction - not BU or BC: Emerson C in Boston.

Both his younger brothers must be studying in the USA. According to Anita( source her Telegraaf interview) both brothers flew in from the USA to attend the services of their father in Arnhem, The Netherlands. Joran flew in from somewhere to attend. Anita did not specify a place of origin for Joran.
 
As a mother...It breaks my heart. I can't even imagine EVER getting to the point where I felt I couldn't embrace my son or visit him. EVEN under Joran's circumstances. It's inconceivable to me. BUT I only have one son, his mother has other children she needs to worry about.
I think she has her own safety to consider also, and it wouldn't be a good idea for her to go to Peru. She does have her two other sons to consider, and she is their only remaining parent. MOO
 
Oh please. Something happened to Natalee? She was a young healthy 18 years old girl, what is that something that happened to her? As for Joran, as far as I am concerned, he should have been thanking his lucky star that he was out free to roam about, and not sitting in a cell, and what does he do with it? If you ask me, this guy deserves everything that is coming his way.



What would anyone expect a murderer to do with his freedom? Work at Mother Theresa's convent in India? Become a model citizen? I don't think that usually happens.

I think nobody knows for sure what happened to Natalee. JVS probably does but I have not heard of anyone else who knows. Everybody knows what a liar he is.
 
Are you professionally qualified to diagnose Anita and her ability to cope?
She's actually doing exactly what a mentally healthy person and good Mother should at this point. She is a victim too and we should back off IMO.


The other day, before his mother's interview I posted that Jordan wasn't a product of bad parenting.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mck16
Very early on a statement came out that Joran was checking the tides and the water currents implying that he was going to dump the body in the water. My question: where was he searching, on his laptop is the assumption I had. But, they said for many days they could not look at his computer because they were waiting for a court order or some such reason.

How do they know he was checking the tides and currents? Is this just another case of poor reporting? And if it is, how can we believe anything that has been reported? tia

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jilly
We don't know for sure but according to the link that TwiceIrish posted (page before) they will be checking this during the pretrial investigation which could take up to a year. Up to now, my guess is that reporters have been paying off investigators etc., for info.

"There are still many things to finish in the pre-trial investigation. One of the primary things is the reading of the contents of Joran van der Sloot's laptop. We do not know yet what information it contains....."





He was arrested in Chile one day after Flores' body was found. Authorities there found him in possession of his laptop and a chart indicating the tides in the Pacific off Lima's coast, which led them to suspect he wanted to dump Flores' body in the ocean.


http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpps/ne...nacked-near-corpse-dpgonc-20100610-fc_8015056

I think the point was how can we believe what we read and I see in the article you posted they made a quote from the National Enquirer.:waitasec:
 
I think the point was how can we believe what we read and I see in the article you posted they made a quote from the National Enquirer.:waitasec:

Maybe he looked up the tide and current information and made his own chart. Or maybe they are available at the local stores. Just thought it was strange it appeared to come from is laptop and yet they said they could not look into his laptop. js
 
I think the point was how can we believe what we read and I see in the article you posted they made a quote from the National Enquirer.:waitasec:

I'm still curious to know if he did water activities that would require him to know tides, Jilly.

I aknowledge that he could have very well been looking at them to dispose of a body. But sometimes murderers will have incidental items that can appear to be nefarious but really aren't and I just wanted to be sure that the distinction is made in my own mind. JMHO.

The reason I had asked if he surfed, fished on the coast, snorkeled, dived...etc. Is because IIRC he spent most of his years on an Island. Given what I've seen since I moved to an island (not that my experiences are directly related to JVDS) is that the community here is very in tune with the Ocean, currents, tides...etc. It's like second nature to them to check.

JMHO. Just a suggestion as to why he might have had the charts as well as what was reported.
 
This is for Bobarino.
I remembered reading an article about Thai boxing in an issue of SAWADDI, a magazine published by the American Woman's Club of Thailand.
I have a library of issues that I've kept over the years and found the article in the Second Quarter 2005 issue.

A Night at the Fights by Dawn DelVecchio

"Knockout! A left kick to the jaw sends one man to the canvas. The audience grows silent as the young man in blue stands in momentary awe over his downed opponent. I can't help but wonder if the crowd surrounding me is disappointed at such a quick finish: no five rounds of action, no money to change hands following a gambling frenzy. ...

...The two boxers move to the center of the ring where the referee quickly wipes off each pair of gloves along his shirt front, ...

... A bout consists of five three-minute rounds with two-minute breaks in between. Contestants are matched according to weight, experience and record ... Thai-style boxers use an array of bodily weapons. Nak muay strategically punish each other with kicks, punches, elbows and knees. Strikes include shin kicks to all surfaces of the body, forward foot and knee thrusts, elbow strikes to the head and hooking, or curved knees, to ribs and tender organs. The groin and the back of the neck are off limits as targets, but all else is fair game. ...

... By the time the officially sanctioned fights are underway, the betting section of middle-aged man has grown to encompass about one-third of both the second and third tiers of seating. Many of these men were no doubt fighters themselves at one time. Now they enjoy the action of the ring as well as the intensive gambling that accompanies each event. This section becomes a madhouse of wagering as the night wears on--a roiling mass of waving arms and bellowing voices through to the final seconds of the main event.

In recent years the Thais have begun marketing their favorite sport to tourists, resulting in an audience comprised of Westerners and locals alike. Flyers, tour services and every guidebook advertise and extol the excitement of attending a muay Thai bout. Guests run the gamut: from an assembly of Thai men between the ages of 40 and 60 in short-sleeved, plaid shirts, polyester pants and plastic flip-flops to dread-locked, pierced and fully tattooed young foreigners with gorgeous blonds who look bored alongside their well-muscled boyfriends. Polite, yellow-vested boys and girls wander the arena serving drinks and snacks throughout the evening. ...

...Some criticize muay Thai as violent and obscene. I have spoken to many visitors to the Kingdom who refuse to attend an evening of fights because they cannot stomach such brutality....

...Perhaps it is the superior athleticism of its practitioners or its pristine and savage grace. Perhaps it is the true sportsmanship with which its practitioners engage their art. Perhaps it is my knowledge of a fighter's experience that allows me to enjoy these displays of mutual physical punishment and strategic challenge. ..."


"Muay Thai bouts can be seen in Bangkok seven nights a week."

Some captions under the pictures.

- The right round kick is the most frequently thrown weapon in the fighters' arsenal.
- A strong knee to the gut scores a point for the red boxer.
- The speed and fury of the fight are evident in the lightening movement of the opponents.
- The fighters prepare to punish each other with kicks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
muay Thai is Thailand's national sport. It's considered by experts to be one of the most effective fighting arts on the planet. Aside from the official fights in two established locations in Bangkok, there are many bouts taking place around Thailand with boxers who are not yet ready for the big league. They set up boxing rings in open air store fronts where one can just buy a drink, grab a stool and sit and watch the young men train. There are as many as 60,000 nak muay (boxers) in Thailand. Bangkok is one of the nation's top venues, so the best fighters and their coaches go there from outlying provinces. It would be easy for any man to hang out with people training for this sport every night if they were interested imo.
 
I'm still curious to know if he did water activities that would require him to know tides, Jilly.

I aknowledge that he could have very well been looking at them to dispose of a body. But sometimes murderers will have incidental items that can appear to be nefarious but really aren't and I just wanted to be sure that the distinction is made in my own mind. JMHO.

The reason I had asked if he surfed, fished on the coast, snorkeled, dived...etc. Is because IIRC he spent most of his years on an Island. Given what I've seen since I moved to an island (not that my experiences are directly related to JVDS) is that the community here is very in tune with the Ocean, currents, tides...etc. It's like second nature to them to check.

JMHO. Just a suggestion as to why he might have had the charts as well as what was reported.
I really can't think of any reason he'd have tidal charts for Peru as he was there for a poker tournament and was supposed to stay there and play that week ~ except to possibly dispose of her body in the ocean. MOO
 
I really can't think of any reason he'd have tidal charts for Peru as he was there for a poker tournament and was supposed to stay there and play that week ~ except to possibly dispose of her body in the ocean. MOO

You're probably right about that Panthera and I don't think the chart is very important in this investigation but I had other question if everybody doesn't mind---just to settle it in my mind :)

How far from the beach was the hotel located? Does anyone know off hand?

He probably was but I wonder if he had to travel with her dead body how he would get her (or suitcases containing her) to the beach?

I wonder if he has friends in Peru that have boats?

Just some questions in my mind at this moment. Not important to the investigation IMHO.
 
I think the point was how can we believe what we read and I see in the article you posted they made a quote from the National Enquirer.:waitasec:

Actually several sources were quoted in that article ..just to be fair


Now like I said before you can pick up charts a lot of places and usually they have sunrise times also plus on the reverse side is usually and ad perhaps the taxi company sponsored an ad plus if he had a paper ..not for the purpose of tidal info but if it was in there they could
misconstrue that.


(The New York Post) - Joran van der Sloot told police he sat on the edge of his hotel bed in Lima, Peru, sipping espresso and munching on sponge cake just minutes after brutally killing a local woman whose body lay on the floor, the New York Post reported Thursday.


Van der Sloot told Peruvian detectives he also popped three amphetamine pills to stay alert and ward off the exhaustion he felt from playing poker with Flores at a nearby casino into the early-morning hours before considering whether he could dump the body in the ocean, according to La Republica newspaper in Lima.

A wrapper from a date-rape pill later was found in her abandoned car, according to Flores' father. Police believe that van der Sloot tried to have sex with Flores in his room but that she rebuffed him by saying she was a lesbian, U.S. tabloid the National Enquirer said. Both of them slept until about 8am local time, at which time van der Sloot got up and went out to a nearby restaurant to buy some cakes and two espressos.

I did not want to do it," he later told cops, according to La Republica. "The girl intruded into my private life. She had no right."


He was arrested in Chile one day after Flores' body was found. Authorities there found him in possession of his laptop and a chart indicating the tides in the Pacific off Lima's coast, which led them to suspect he wanted to dump Flores' body in the ocean

On Monday, La Republica reported, van der Sloot spoke to his mother on the phone for 20 minutes, and authorities believe she convinced him to tell the truth.
Source: The New York Post

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