GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #7

[JoeFromLB]

chances are, he probably knew about the tree from all of his wanderings....he probably squatted in that tree and pretended to be an animal and lurked at any activities outside...

this guy is pure evil mixed with psychosis...

I'm dreading the inevitable parade of psychiatrists and the schizophrenia defense. Twenty years from now, "cured" and released from the mental hospital...

 

[chelle500]

I don't know. Maybe my imagination is getting the best of me but IIRC the commenter said to look inside a hollow tree. And the tone of the comment was rather insistent. Almost like instructions. But if the comments are removed then we won't be able to go back to them to verify any of this.

No offense but I hope you are wrong. Would hate to think there are more than one of those people out there!:furious:

 

[Cazzie]

Yes, it's deer-hunting season (bow) in Ohio, and tomorrow they start a special "youth" week where the kids get vacation from school to hunt.

I think gun season starts later this fall?

Locals were posting warnings for the searchers to wear orange or other bright unnatural colors to keep safe. Many hoped that hunting season would be suspended until searching was over, but that didn't happen (Ohio makes revenue from hunting permits).

The only good things that I can say about MH putting them in the tree (and this is a long stretch) is that at least they were covered (bags) and not left out in the open, safe from animals (inside the tree), and hopefully not dismembered (we don't know yet).

I have absolutely zero belief that he did it as any kind of spiritual belief or naturalist reason. Also, I do not think he did it out of any type of insanity or mental illness. IMO he did it with the hope that they would never be found, thus in his mind, he could never be charged for their murders. JMO. And yes, I have no doubt that this was not only premeditated, but planned for a long time.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I had a hard time sleeping last night -- my mind kept wandering to the located bodies and how they were found.

[WARNING: the next paragraph is not for the faint of heart.]

It is my theory that they were probably dismembered and put in quite a few garbage bags as it would be difficult for a single individual to drag one whole body a mile through the woods. I wonder if the blood found at his house indicated that he had dragged the bodies in garbage bags through the house after dismembering them in the bathroom. It is hard to find a garbage bag that did not leak a little bit if there were fluids in it along with dry trash.

I believe there is a lot LE has not told us, probably due to the gruesome nature of these murders.

May their souls rest in peace.

Hi penelope.. I have thought similar about their having been dismembered..but the one thing that is leading me to believe this is not the case is that more than once, in fact several times it has been publicly stated that the bodies were found wearing the same exact clothing that they were last seen wearing on Wedsnesday...

meaning what are the chances that in dismembering that all 3 would still have enough of their clothes still intact and on them that LE would be able to make this observation and report this?? I just find it very unlikely..

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[KAE]

Hi all - I am so very sorry for that big rainbow!!!! I posted, computer froze (gee, wonder why) then went to bed. Have learned my lesson and will be more careful in the future about attachment size.

Sheesh, I am very embarrassed!

Don't worry about it.
If you have a smaller version of the photo please repost it. After yesterday I think a rainbow would do us all some good.

 

[belimom]

Just thought of something: IF the bodies were intact, then he had to really have this planned ahead. Because of rigor mortis starting after 3 hrs and having the bodies be stiff after 12 hrs, then I think that he had to roll the bodies up in the tarps in such a way that they would fit in the tree (I thought about this when I saw the picture below). If that is a body () in the white sheet/tarp (that looks like a rolled up carpet) and it came from inside a tree, then it had to be like that before going in -- unless he got all of them in there within 3 hrs of killing them. That is possible, too, but he would have to have been working super quick. (ETA: I have seen the pic in MSM but I grabbed mine from Crocus - thanks, Crocus, for the photobucket)

I just wanted to bring my post forward again, in light of the new details released. Wondering what the rest of you thought... (ETA: he had to have rolled up the bodies at the house ahead of time, knowing where he was going to put them - so that he could then drop them down...)

 

[gxm]

No offense but I hope you are wrong. Would hate to think there are more than one of those people out there!:furious:

No. Not at all. I was just wondering out loud if MH had posted the comment but he was already under arrest. I suspect it's probably someone who knows him and who he confided in. Maybe even someone trying to protect him but still point LE in the right direction. I wasn't trying to insinuate there are others like MH. Let's all hope that mold is broke but good.

 

[peel]

the tree is much taller than I imagined...it would have been very difficult to do what he did....but who thinks up this stuff?.....I'm convinced that he probably had climbed that tree on previous outings......I am also convinced that he has done horrific things in the past...

and the dog.....this guy is a maniac....

 

[gxm]

I just wanted to bring my post forward again, in light of the new details released. Wondering what the rest of you thought...

belimom, ITA. This is so premeditated and so unbelievably sick that it's truly staggering. IMO, there is no way this guy was running around during the aftermath trying to figure out what to do. This was scripted. Although I still wonder if Stephanie wasn't his first target and, as has been speculated here, she knowingly or unknowing rebuffed MH.

 

[Leila]

GRAPHIC ALERT

I gave the searches much thought over the past week, as did we all, and reading the bathtub rumor on topix gave me a feeling of despair, beyond the horror of the situation.

I feared that possible dismembering and washing away of fluid would make it more difficult for dogs to track.
Given what we now know, I agree that without MH, these poor people would have remained missing.
The scent would be hard to track once fluids were gone, then contained within sealed bags (sealed well enough to withstand dragging and hauling into a tree), and then disguised within the realms of a rotting tree.


Oh and the leaves in his house gave me a really ewwww thought too Ronso.

It may have taken years, but eventually that hollowed out, rotting tree would probably fall over and disintegrate, and at that point, someone would have discovered the skeletal remains.

 

[Tikki]

I just wanted to bring my post forward again, in light of the new details released. Wondering what the rest of you thought...

sorry the pic doesn't come back up, anyway, I've looked at this a couple times and I can't really figure out what I'm seeing?

So the white is something rolled up?

What do you see here?

where is the tree?

tia

 

[Leila]

Snapdragon -
It is to aweful to repeat. I can't do it.

It was the Topix posts. They've been removed.
I would have to PM you, I won't re type it here, I can't

O.K. Mikeysmommom (above) has more guts than I do

I've saved the topix posts.

 

[Wil.J]

I just wanted to bring my post forward again, in light of the new details released. Wondering what the rest of you thought... (ETA: he had to have rolled up the bodies at the house ahead of time, knowing where he was going to put them - so that he could then drop them down...)

I'm glad you brought this forward. We also know that LE had to cut down the tree to remove the bodies, so that should give us some additional ideas. The amount of planning and (therefore) premeditation is stunning, IMO.

 

[Tikki]

Any idea how tall the tree was? Sorry if I missed that...

 

[Leila]

Assuming for the moment the comments were posted before his arrest, could the poster have been MH himself??

I'm getting the idea here that he wants the whole world to know exactly what he did to these people.

The post in question on Topix was posted the night before the bodies were found.........just hours before they were found, and MH was already under arrest and in jail. The poster, "Hopeful", said that he/she was close to the situation. I take it to mean he or she was family or a close friend. It may have even been someone from MH's family?

 

[gxm]

I've saved the topix posts.

Did the comments mention looking inside a hollow tree or is my imagination just running away?

 

[Tikki]

I just wanted to bring my post forward again, in light of the new details released. Wondering what the rest of you thought... (ETA: he had to have rolled up the bodies at the house ahead of time, knowing where he was going to put them - so that he could then drop them down...)[/QUOTE]

Depending on how tall the tree was, how strong would you have to be to get a 5'6" 130 rolled up body (SS) high enough in the air to get it down into a hollow tree trunk?

I'm thinking VERY strong, there's the adrenaline factor too, if he's that normal...

I thought I saw another picture of the tree somewhere, this is all I could find, of the hollowed out part, sorry pics arent my forte, heres a link...

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/lo...n-knox-county-missing-found-tree.html?sid=102

the video on the right has some more pics of the tree

 

[Leila]

I don't know. Maybe my imagination is getting the best of me but IIRC the commenter said to look inside a hollow tree. And the tone of the comment was rather insistent. Almost like instructions. But if the comments are removed then we won't be able to go back to them to verify any of this.

I have to leave right now for an appointment and won't be back until later this afternoon. If it's okay with a moderator, I will post the Topix post so there's clarification to what was actually posted.

The poster only said to look up in trees. There was no mention of a hollow tree.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Did the comments mention looking inside a hollow tree or is my imagination just running away?

Not your imagination ,I went to history and found it.

Catfish Billy wrote:
"If Hoffman was smart he would have climbed and hollowed out the top portion of a tree (or several trees)and used a pulley system to lift the bodies up into the trees and stuff them into the top half of the trunk(s). "

 

[Wil.J]

sorry the pic doesn't come back up, anyway, I've looked at this a couple times and I can't really figure out what I'm seeing?

So the white is something rolled up?

What do you see here?

where is the tree?

tia

With thanks to Belimom for the photo, I think what we're seeing is an intact body rolled up. The tree is lost in the background, but don't forget this is after they cut it down.

Yes, it would have taken considerable strength, but with the right equipment (don't forget the perp worked on and up trees) such as a pulley and so on, it could certainly be done.

Again, all of this speaks to a lot of planning (and perhaps some previous experience).