Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[kpalma715]

I think the fatal event occured on the afternoon of the 16th, JG in his statment claimed to hear Caylee in the background during his call with ICA, maybe around nap time due to Caylee being found with pull-up's, as she was on her way to being potty-trained and just wearing diapers for sleeping. I agree with there being a real possibilty that ica was planning to dispose of her parents too, especially looking back over her IM's to AL
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4770482/IM-History-with-L7Tone

OMG, wow, I never read those messages before. It does sound like she had plans to get rid of them. It is very strange how she didn't want her parents to meet her boyfriend.

 

[carole]

what has been racing through my mind. If I remember correctly. Didn't CA say that there are some truths in KC when she is lying (forgive me memory bad).
Maybe drowning did happen.
1. Chloroform
2. Duct tape
3. Drowning at home in bath tub
Just my thinking

BBM

If you have duct tape over your mouth and nose, you can't drown in the bathtub or anywhere else -- you suffocate to death.

 

[raine1212]

What if the duct tape was loose enough for water to get in. Just a thought I have had for a long time that she used the bath tub for drowning. Or she could have placed the duct tape immediately afterwards. I was thinking she did not have enough experience with the chloroform.

 

[Baznme]

I don't really know what would actually happen, but wouldn't knocking someone out before placing in water, make that happen more "peacefully"? Maybe it wouldn't. ??

I have a toddler and cannot understand how someone could do these things, especially premeditative-ly (sp?) (which I think it was in this case). I think poor Caylee was used as a pawn. (If I can't have her, no one can!)

I have more than one possible scenario in mind at this point as I've changed my mind about 20 thousand times.....but here goes.

I have leaned toward the chloroform poisoning more often than I ever intended as being the primary cause of her death however, I think maybe...just maybe an overabundant amount was used to put her out beyond the ability to awaken and placed the duct tape on at that point to keep the ability to breathe at bay. No struggle, quiet and effective.

The other might have been the use of chloroform to put her to sleep, she used too much and/or the chloroform leaked from the container (Gatorade bottle), settled low in the air space in the trunk and it was the fatal dose for Caylee. Upon returning to the trunk, ICA discovered the death and went on about the business of covering it up because she COULD NOT be exposed as the "mother" that chloroformed her child that died. That's the only thing I can think of as a reason for her to stay behind bars for three years before going to trial. She just could not admit she really was "an unfit mother".

BBM - BTW, I agree with your statement above in bold.

 

[WillenFan21]

A new theory that I have is maybe she got pissed off that Cindy wouldn't babysit and in a complete rage she chloroformed, then duct taped, THEN threw her in the swimming pool for like an hour, and that combination is what did it. Didn't the cadaver dogs hit on the family swimming pool? I mean I could be wrong on this but ICA did have a two hour time frame from 4 to 6EST that her phone didn't ping.

 

[Baznme]

A new theory that I have is maybe she got pissed off that Cindy wouldn't babysit and in a complete rage she chloroformed, then duct taped, THEN threw her in the swimming pool for like an hour, and that combination is what did it. Didn't the cadaver dogs hit on the family swimming pool? I mean I could be wrong on this but ICA did have a two hour time frame from 4 to 6EST that her phone didn't ping.

That makes sense. It certainly eliminated the "babysitting" problem once and for all.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I have more than one possible scenario in mind at this point as I've changed my mind about 20 thousand times.....but here goes.

I have leaned toward the chloroform poisoning more often than I ever intended as being the primary cause of her death however, I think maybe...just maybe an overabundant amount was used to put her out beyond the ability to awaken and placed the duct tape on at that point to keep the ability to breathe at bay. No struggle, quiet and effective.

The other might have been the use of chloroform to put her to sleep, she used too much and/or the chloroform leaked from the container (Gatorade bottle), settled low in the air space in the trunk and it was the fatal dose for Caylee. Upon returning to the trunk, ICA discovered the death and went on about the business of covering it up because she COULD NOT be exposed as the "mother" that chloroformed her child that died. That's the only thing I can think of as a reason for her to stay behind bars for three years before going to trial. She just could not admit she really was "an unfit mother".

This is so interesting to me, because the more and more I think about about chloroform, the more convinced I am that she didn't use it. I'm not trying to discount your opinion at all, because you made some strong points, but here's my thinking on it: From everything I've read, Chloroform doesn't last that long once it's made, I think even the page Casey viewed said two weeks or so, and it has to be stored in a glass container (not metal or plastic). While not hard to make, it is time consuming and methodical (lots of warnings of all the things that go wrong). As a sedative, it wouldn't be that useful because it would require redosing every 15 minutes or so, so I really don't buy into the trunk-babysitter theory. Casey spends much time researching in March, but then never appears to go back to the site on how to make chloroform. She couldn't have made the fatal in dose in March because it would have converted to phosgene gas by June. It doesn't appear that she would have had time to make it on the 16th, meaning she would have had to plan much further in advance, which, to me, is kind of contradicted by the way the body was dumped. Even the idea of her having the patience to make it and store it seems off, she just appears to be more impulsive than that. I could be totally wrong, but these are just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Baznme]

This is so interesting to me, because the more and more I think about about chloroform, the more convinced I am that she didn't use it. I'm not trying to discount your opinion at all, because you made some strong points, but here's my thinking on it: From everything I've read, Chloroform doesn't last that long once it's made, I think even the page Casey viewed said two weeks or so, and it has to be stored in a glass container (not metal or plastic). While not hard to make, it is time consuming and methodical (lots of warnings of all the things that go wrong). As a sedative, it wouldn't be that useful because it would require redosing every 15 minutes or so, so I really don't buy into the trunk-babysitter theory. Casey spends much time researching in March, but then never appears to go back to the site on how to make chloroform. She couldn't have made the fatal in dose in March because it would have converted to phosgene gas by June. It doesn't appear that she would have had time to make it on the 16th, meaning she would have had to plan much further in advance, which, to me, is kind of contradicted by the way the body was dumped. Even the idea of her having the patience to make it and store it seems off, she just appears to be more impulsive than that. I could be totally wrong, but these are just my thoughts on the subject.

I'm open to your thoughts of course, so let's eliminate the chloroform as a tool used in Caylee's demise. That leaves the duct tape and thrown into the pool, then into the bags and in the trunk. 3 to 5 days in the trunk and then the body put on Suburban Dr. So how can we account for the high level of chloroform in the trunk? Isn't it just possible she made the chloroform for the first time on the 16th and not knowing what she was doing as far as making it, she put her out first OR thought it was supposed to be injected?

 

[GeekyGirl]

I'm open to your thoughts of course, so let's eliminate the chloroform as a tool used in Caylee's demise. That leaves the duct tape and thrown into the pool, then into the bags and in the trunk. 3 to 5 days in the trunk and then the body put on Suburban Dr. So how can we account for the high level of chloroform in the trunk?

Honestly, I don't know how it fits, which is why the case is so frustrating to me.

 

[katydid23]

A new theory that I have is maybe she got pissed off that Cindy wouldn't babysit and in a complete rage she chloroformed, then duct taped, THEN threw her in the swimming pool for like an hour, and that combination is what did it. Didn't the cadaver dogs hit on the family swimming pool? I mean I could be wrong on this but ICA did have a two hour time frame from 4 to 6EST that her phone didn't ping.

I thought that was the window of time too. But then someone pointed out that the cell phone ping map shows that she was on the road about 4:15 pm. Her cell pings show her on the road going toward Tony's, and arrivi9ng there by about 4:30. [ See ACandyRose timeline]

 

[GeekyGirl]

I'm open to your thoughts of course, so let's eliminate the chloroform as a tool used in Caylee's demise. That leaves the duct tape and thrown into the pool, then into the bags and in the trunk. 3 to 5 days in the trunk and then the body put on Suburban Dr. So how can we account for the high level of chloroform in the trunk? Isn't it just possible she made the chloroform for the first time on the 16th and not knowing what she was doing as far as making it, she put her out first OR thought it was supposed to be injected?

To address the second part... I'll have to double check my references but IIRC making an appreciable amount of chloroform wouldn't have been a quick thing, and you really need to devote your full attention to the process. I just don't see where she would have had the time to do that after George left, and then dump the body too.

 

[crucibelle]

This is so interesting to me, because the more and more I think about about chloroform, the more convinced I am that she didn't use it. I'm not trying to discount your opinion at all, because you made some strong points, but here's my thinking on it: From everything I've read, Chloroform doesn't last that long once it's made, I think even the page Casey viewed said two weeks or so, and it has to be stored in a glass container (not metal or plastic). While not hard to make, it is time consuming and methodical (lots of warnings of all the things that go wrong). As a sedative, it wouldn't be that useful because it would require redosing every 15 minutes or so, so I really don't buy into the trunk-babysitter theory. Casey spends much time researching in March, but then never appears to go back to the site on how to make chloroform. She couldn't have made the fatal in dose in March because it would have converted to phosgene gas by June. It doesn't appear that she would have had time to make it on the 16th, meaning she would have had to plan much further in advance, which, to me, is kind of contradicted by the way the body was dumped. Even the idea of her having the patience to make it and store it seems off, she just appears to be more impulsive than that. I could be totally wrong, but these are just my thoughts on the subject.

ITA with you that KC didn't make the chloroform. There's still the possibility that she got it from somewhere/someone else, though. Where she would get it, I don't know. Perhaps someone else made it, just out of curiosity, and KC swiped some. I wonder about Ricardo sometimes, but that's all I'll say about him. The results about the chloroform being in the trunk are sort of "iffy" to me. Vass & the FBI chemist both performed headspace analysis (the air above the pieces of trunk liner, etc.). Vass said there was a huge amount of chloroform in the trunk. FBI chemist said there was as much as would be expected in a cleaning product (not much). So, I sort of wonder if the chloroform found in the trunk was just from an industrial cleaner from the Anthony's wet vac. I just see no logical reason for KC to use chloroform AND duct tape. I don't see chloroform being used as an agent to keep Caylee asleep, because the effect is short-lived, as you mentioned.

 

[kevmob77]

I have no idea how anyone can think that this wasn't a premeditated, calculated murder. Who looks up 'neck breaking' on a search? Or any of the many other possible ways to kill someone.

I think Casey didn't kill Caylee for the reason that she wanted to party more, but that she was tired of Caylee receiving more attention than she was. And to spite her mother. Show her who's the boss. Sad, but true. The definition of a sociopath.

 

[GeekyGirl]

ITA with you that KC didn't make the chloroform. There's still the possibility that she got it from somewhere/someone else, though. Where she would get it, I don't know. Perhaps someone else made it, just out of curiosity, and KC swiped some. I wonder about Ricardo sometimes, but that's all I'll say about him. The results about the chloroform being in the trunk are sort of "iffy" to me. Vass & the FBI chemist both performed headspace analysis (the air above the pieces of trunk liner, etc.). Vass said there was a huge amount of chloroform in the trunk. FBI chemist said there was as much as would be expected in a cleaning product (not much). So, I sort of wonder if the chloroform found in the trunk was just from an industrial cleaner from the Anthony's wet vac. I just see no logical reason for KC to use chloroform AND duct tape. I don't see chloroform being used as an agent to keep Caylee asleep, because the effect is short-lived, as you mentioned.

ITA on the results being iffy, which is why it bothers me so much that that they made such an big deal of them, and the searches, at trial. IMO it just confuses the issue.

 

[Phoebeb]

I'm open to your thoughts of course, so let's eliminate the chloroform as a tool used in Caylee's demise. That leaves the duct tape and thrown into the pool, then into the bags and in the trunk. 3 to 5 days in the trunk and then the body put on Suburban Dr. So how can we account for the high level of chloroform in the trunk? Isn't it just possible she made the chloroform for the first time on the 16th and not knowing what she was doing as far as making it, she put her out first OR thought it was supposed to be injected?

I have been trying to recreate what happened in my mind too. It's mind-boggling. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents if you don't mind... That pool and back yard seem too open and exposed to the neighbors' windows (from all sides). I remember seeing a crime scene photo of the playhouse area. You can see the house that looks to be behind the next door neighbor on the right that would have a clear view of the back yard. So for that reason, I respectfully disagree that ICA would have let Caylee drown in the pool for a period of time. (Unless she wanted the neighbors to discover the "drowning" that may have been initiated by a chloroform knock-out) Eek!

In that crime scene photo, I noticed a large umbrella that was not open near the playhouse. This is not the shorter striped one around the little picnic table- it's much larger. Anyway, I always thought ICA could have opened that large umbrella (to prepare Caylee's body or maybe for a burial there) for privacy from the neighbors' windows. IMO

 

[Phoebeb]

ITA with you that KC didn't make the chloroform. There's still the possibility that she got it from somewhere/someone else, though. Where she would get it, I don't know. Perhaps someone else made it, just out of curiosity, and KC swiped some. I wonder about Ricardo sometimes, but that's all I'll say about him. The results about the chloroform being in the trunk are sort of "iffy" to me. Vass & the FBI chemist both performed headspace analysis (the air above the pieces of trunk liner, etc.). Vass said there was a huge amount of chloroform in the trunk. FBI chemist said there was as much as would be expected in a cleaning product (not much). So, I sort of wonder if the chloroform found in the trunk was just from an industrial cleaner from the Anthony's wet vac. I just see no logical reason for KC to use chloroform AND duct tape. I don't see chloroform being used as an agent to keep Caylee asleep, because the effect is short-lived, as you mentioned.

What about the 84 computer searches for chloroform? That's just so odd to me. Hard to dismiss the chloroform in my mind...

 

[GeekyGirl]

What about the 84 computer searches for chloroform? That's just so odd to me. Hard to dismiss the chloroform in my mind...

I don't know, maybe they're related, maybe they aren't. It could be confirmation bias. If such high levels of chloroform weren't found in the trunk, would anyone have made an issue about the searches? What do her search history patterns look like over a longer period of time? It's so hard to say. Now I'm curious, was the search information found before or after the trunk levels were tested?

 

[GracieLu]

A new theory that I have is maybe she got pissed off that Cindy wouldn't babysit and in a complete rage she chloroformed, then duct taped, THEN threw her in the swimming pool for like an hour, and that combination is what did it. Didn't the cadaver dogs hit on the family swimming pool? I mean I could be wrong on this but ICA did have a two hour time frame from 4 to 6EST that her phone didn't ping.

Im not sure about the swimming pool but other than that I think thats exactly what happened. The 'flury' of calls were an excuse of why zanny couldn't babysit afterall, CA not answering the calls indicates to me she was mad about something (prob stealing from grandma/grandpa), and then in a rage ICA chloroformed and duct taped Caylee (problem solved - SICK). She went back home the following day intending to bury Caylee (dogs hit near the playhouse).

I think RM myspace chloroform "joke" probably put the idea of chloroform into her mind (unintentionally of course, and prob why he acted weird on the stand. He prob feels somewhat responsible). She thinks "hmmmm, maybe I could steal from my friends/family using chloroform." Anyway in her rage, she decides to use it on Caylee...

 

[trying to make sense]

I think she made the chloroform to knock people out to steal from them. Like guys she picks up. I think she tried it on Amy when she stole the 400.00 from her..Casey used it on Caylee to knock her out to put the duct tape on her to kill her. She wanted to get rid of her big problem , Caylee. Caylee was always keeping her from being free to do what she wanted without Cindy having to be involved. Casey was still mad she did not get to go to Puerto Rico with her friends. Caylee was not going to stop her from catching the man of her dreams. Caylee was becoming alot more to handle and talking now, so she was a big big problem with all of Caseys lies.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I have no idea how anyone can think that this wasn't a premeditated, calculated murder. Who looks up 'neck breaking' on a search? Or any of the many other possible ways to kill someone.

I think Casey didn't kill Caylee for the reason that she wanted to party more, but that she was tired of Caylee receiving more attention than she was. And to spite her mother. Show her who's the boss. Sad, but true. The definition of a sociopath.

Yes, but who looks up "hand to hand combat" when thinking about murdering a two year old? I have to admit, I've never really thought those March computer searches had much if anything to do with Caylee's death.

ETA: I absolutely believe ICA killed Caylee, I just don't think the searches were part of it.