8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[southcitymom]

It's obvious that Diane Schuler was one of those "hyper responsible, tightly wound" people as described in the documentary. Having her mother abandon the family with the next door neighbor who was also a friend of the family - as noted by one of her girlfriends in the interview - had to be absolutely devastating to Diane at the age of only 9. The fact that her brothers renewed relationships with their mother probably did not sit well with Diane, and she continued to hold that "unarticulated grudge" which she discussed with no one. Now, put it all in a pile, everything stated in the documentary, the psych opinions, the go-go-go personality of Diane, the fact that she was a "very private" person who "didn't talk about personal issues and feelings with anyone" [not even Daniel] and even the autopsy - which, with the exception of the gross physical injuries from the accident indicates she was in very good shape - her organs are not diseased and are described to be quite normal in appearance. So, what would make someone who always appears to be so "in control" suddenly become so "out of control"?

She was definitely not in her right mind. What causes a "break" like that? Well, the weight of all the responsibility she had coupled with the constant effort to stay on top and one step ahead and only show everyone how "together" she was could have caused a psychotic break and she just "lost it" and drank/smoked herself into oblivion thinking "I am SO DONE with this crap, to hell with everybody...eff it!" We'll never know, but it's possible.

Also, I keep coming back to the possibility of her suffering a migraine attack - there's no mention of her ever having migraines, but her lifestyle sure is fertile ground to grow one helluva migraine, and there's a first time for everything. Migraines can mimic strokes in some ways, here's an interesting link; there are lots more out there.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5553933_confusion-aura-stage-migraine-headache.html

It's possible the onset of migraine might have caused her to reach for the bottle/joint to ease the pain - not condoning the use of either for migraine, just hypothesizing.

I get migraines once in a while, and the first time I experienced one I literally thought I was having a stroke...I could not see out of one eye, it wasn't black, but I couldn't focus (I was reading a box of brownie mix and all of a sudden it felt like someone dumped cement on the back of my neck), I told my husband I thought I was having stroke and we went to the ER. Anyway, every time I listen to people describe what little interaction they had with Diane prior to the accident, it makes me think of the possibility of a migraine playing a part in this tragedy.

Okay, I'm done....for now. Thanks for the space to ramble!

I had migraines from age 9/10 to age 22. Have never had one since, but the first time I had one, the mailman found me in the middle of the road and I woke up in the hospital where everyone thought I had had a stroke. I did lots of word slurring, etc..the symptoms really do mimic stroke.

I too have considered the migraine angle. I do not think it is possible to make a determination about that post-mortem.

 

[tiredblondy]

I wonder if a TIA would have shown up on autopsy? Transient Ischemic Attack, often a precusor to a stroke. I'm a retired Speech Pathologist and those can cause severe headaches, impaired speech, blurred vision, stumbling,etc. My Dad had one when I was home once and by the time we got to the hospital he was fine but I knew the symptoms. The doctors diagnosed it as a TIA and warned us to watch him for a stroke. Nothing ever happened as a result and there was no evidence of it in his tests. I know what I saw and experienced and still remember him saying "Honwee, I'm awite. Im fwine! He didn't fool me I saw the fear in his eyes. He was aware his speech was labored but not of the articulation errors and had to lie down because he couldn''t walk. It happened so quickly and was over in about 30 min although it seemed like forever to me.

 

[MaryLiz]

I wonder if a TIA would have shown up on autopsy? Transient Ischemic Attack, often a precusor to a stroke. I'm a retired Speech Pathologist and those can cause severe headaches, impaired speech, blurred vision, stumbling,etc. My Dad had one when I was home once and by the time we got to the hospital he was fine but I knew the symptoms. The doctors diagnosed it as a TIA and warned us to watch him for a stroke. Nothing ever happened as a result and there was no evidence of it in his tests. I know what I saw and experienced and still remember him saying "Honwee, I'm awite. Im fwine! He didn't fool me I saw the fear in his eyes. He was aware his speech was labored but not of the articulation errors and had to lie down because he couldn''t walk. It happened so quickly and was over in about 30 min although it seemed like forever to me.

TIA crossed my mind too. I had one in January 2007. I thought it was a bad migraine, but I also thought it was a stroke. I had more than the usual nausea and vomiting that will accompany migraines sometimes, along with weakness in my left arm and leg. When they did the CAT scan at the hospital, they thought it was a stroke and admitted me. But an MRI showed it wasn't a stroke. They then said it was a TIA. I didn't have any speech difficulties or stumbling with it, but had most of the rest of the symptoms. The headache I had with it was the worst of my life, even though I have migraines. It was definitely a scary experience!

 

[Saffron]

I wonder if a TIA would have shown up on autopsy? Transient Ischemic Attack, often a precusor to a stroke. I'm a retired Speech Pathologist and those can cause severe headaches, impaired speech, blurred vision, stumbling,etc. My Dad had one when I was home once and by the time we got to the hospital he was fine but I knew the symptoms. The doctors diagnosed it as a TIA and warned us to watch him for a stroke. Nothing ever happened as a result and there was no evidence of it in his tests. I know what I saw and experienced and still remember him saying "Honwee, I'm awite. Im fwine! He didn't fool me I saw the fear in his eyes. He was aware his speech was labored but not of the articulation errors and had to lie down because he couldn''t walk. It happened so quickly and was over in about 30 min although it seemed like forever to me.

Are these strokes alcohol related? I ask because, if this did happen to her, I guess it would have been during the alcohol consumption, because I doubt if she would have been able to get to the bottle during the stroke, or would have wanted to drink after it. I guess what I'm asking is if alcohol can trigger these types of strokes.

 

[sharkeyes]

I too have considered the migraine angle. I do not think it is possible to make a determination about that post-mortem.

I agree. Migraines do not leave a "footprint", so to speak.

I have thought about this a lot the past couple days, and while I would much rather mitigate her behavior with a migraine/TIA or some other obscure medical condition (which I cannot find one single medical condition that would create a false positive BAL other than acetone/ketones in urine from diabetes - which does not apply to blood alcohol level tests); my gut tells me she was on-a-ledge despondent or otherwise hopeless over something and decided to take herself out and take the kids with her - believing her kids would be better off because only she could parent them properly; and her nieces would not be exposed to their grandmother (her brother had reconciled with the mom,..maybe grandma was coming to the play that was mentioned?)

The conversation with her brother had to have consisted of more than [I don't feel good...], he claims he had no idea she was drunk (see first link), but he obviously knew things were bad enough to tell her to stay put.

Included are two more links that are interesting reads (though we've all probably read them already!)

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-08-05/news/17931077_1_taconic-state-parkway-diane-schuler-crash


http://pysih.com/2011/07/26/update-4-diane-schuler/

http://www.anythingtostopthepain.com/diane-schulers-emotional-honesty/

 

[Saffron]

I agree. Migraines do not leave a "footprint", so to speak.

I have thought about this a lot the past couple days, and while I would much rather mitigate her behavior with a migraine/TIA or some other obscure medical condition (which I cannot find one single medical condition that would create a false positive BAL other than acetone/ketones in urine from diabetes - which does not apply to blood alcohol level tests); my gut tells me she was on-a-ledge despondent or otherwise hopeless over something and decided to take herself out and take the kids with her - believing her kids would be better off because only she could parent them properly; and her nieces would not be exposed to their grandmother (her brother had reconciled with the mom,..maybe grandma was coming to the play that was mentioned?)

The conversation with her brother had to have consisted of more than [I don't feel good...], he claims he had no idea she was drunk (see first link), but he obviously knew things were bad enough to tell her to stay put.

Good points. And this is an interesting reminder about her brother's relationship with their mother. Now, I'm guessing here, because the newspaper articles and the documentary unfortunately don't elaborate on any of the personal details, but maybe Diane's mom was not accountable for the pain she caused her children, and when she finally came back into their lives the grown brothers simply forgave her, but Diane couldn't forgive her and didn't want to deal with her because of that lack of acknowledgement. And maybe she felt hatred toward her mother. I think it's possible that Diane may not have bonded with loved ones, including her husband. I can kind of picture certain men not minding this that much, maybe being content with a somewhat superficial relationship as long as they get along. Therefore, even without emotional bonding, Daniel could still considered the marriage perfect, and her perfect. (I've never been to a therapist, so I'm winging it here with terminology.) Anyway, if Diane had a deep-seated resentment, even hatred toward her mother, and wasn't emotionally bonded to her husband or children, and if she deeply resented her brother's acceptance of their mother, these variables could perhaps come together and cause her to not feel anything about his children being in the car that day. This is all speculation as to how she could have committed suicide knowing her own children and her brother's children would be killed with her.

Maybe it's disrespectful for me to have even analyzed this hypothetical. But the more I think about it, the sudden heavy drinking just doesn't make sense for a woman driving a few miles back home in the morning with a car full of children, even if she was in a lot of dental pain. And if she wanted to get buzzed, it seems she would have just waited until later on that afternoon. The timing of it all just doesn't add up, secret drinker or not.

And none of this is to say that Diane didn't love her husband or children, or even that this was a suicide. I'm just throwing out the possibility that emotional bonding may have been difficult or non-existent for her, which may open up more possibilities as to what happened.

 

[Nova]

Saffron, I don't think there's anything disrespectful about your post. Or if there is, it's the same disrespect we all show by analyzing criminals and victims based almost entirely on media reports. Personally, I think we owe our subjects a little humility (i.e., keeping in mind that we don't really know them), but your post does exactly that.

That being said, I come from a family that was abandoned by one parent (in my case, our father) and the reactions of his four children ran the gamut from forgiveness to white-hot rage. But I don't see any evidence that it made us less bonded to our nieces and nephews; my niece and nephew will tell you I am by far the closest of their uncles. If anything, I think the abandonment (even though we now know where our father is) still serves to remind us to cherish the relatives we do have.

Of course, this doesn't prove Diane felt the same about her nieces. But I admit I am bothered by the conjecture that she felt her nieces' lives to have no value. There doesn't appear to be any evidence she felt that way before the morning of the accident.

If anything, one would think Diane's history might interfere with her ability to bond with other women, yet she seems to have maintained close relationships with female friends and relatives all her life. True, her childhood friends say in the doc that she eventually drifted away from them, but doesn't that happen to most of us in adulthood? Obviously, her sisters-in-law thought they were well bonded with Diane; was she fooling them both, as well as her brothers and husband?

 

[robinparten]

I have been following this sad case since it happened, and have been monitoring this forum, and I watched the documentary. My belief now is that it is extremely likely that Diane had a sudden onset of a debilitating headache/toothache/physical ailment, and she tried to medicate with alcohol/marijuana. I think that scenario is more likely than Diane suddenly going off the deep end, or deciding to commit suicide, or that she was secretly drinking/smoking, and it spiraled out of control. She may have been a closet drinker/smoker (we'll probably never know), but all indications from family and friends are that she had never before done anything irresponsible around the children, and I just don't see any precipitating emotional triggers that would have made her radically change her behavior that day. The fact is that her life was setup pretty much the way she seemed to want it - she was in control, she was the head of the family, she liked it like that, she wanted to be the one in charge. What I CAN see happening is this - she is driving back, she was supposed to have the kids back by 1:00. She talked to her brother that morning and said it would be closer to 1:30 before they arrived. She talked to her sister-in-law at 12:08 and Jackie said it was a coherent conversation. I believe Diane even told her SIL that she wanted a ticket to the play that her niece was in that afternoon, and that her own daughter (Erin) would sit in her lap (so she would not need to purchase two tickets). So up until 12:08 Diane seemed to be acting normally, although at that point I believe some eyewitnesses reported that she was driving aggressively, but I think that can be explained by the fact that she was running late. So I believe that sometime between 12:08 and the accident, Diane had a sudden onset of some sort of physical ailment, and her mindset was probably something along the lines of "OMG, I feel horrible but I have got to get these kids home, my niece is in a play, she has to get back, I have to push through the pain, maybe a slug of vodka will ease the pain and allow me to get through this." Diane always delivered, it simply wasn't in her make-up for her to pull over and call 911, or call her brother or husband, and say "come get me, I can't drive." Of course, that was her fatal mistake, because the alcohol/weed simply incapacitated her further. My husband watched the documentary with me and he said back when he was in drivers ed class, he remembers the teacher saying that wrong-way drivers are most often in the fast lane because they don't realize they are going the wrong way and they think they are in the slow lane. Several years ago I had an extremely painful miscarriage at home, and immediately after it I actually did exactly what I think Diane did - I had a couple of shots of alcohol, and even tried to smoke some pot that my husband used to occasionally smoke, just to relieve the pain, it was that bad. I would have done anything to relieve the pain. The difference was that I was at home.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but that's my hypothesis...........

 

[Nova]

Well said, Robin. I for one tend to agree with you.

I have a question which is probably a dumb one: where did Diane's brother and nieces live? I heard the 35 minutes drive figure, but if that's referring to a drive from Westchester County (where the campground was) to Babylon, L.I. (where Dan and Diane lived), then 35 minutes would be optimal time with no traffic jams. One has to go through New York City (at least the Bronx and Queens) to get from upstate NY to Long Island by car.

With people returning to the city after a summer weekend, I seriously doubt the driving conditions were optimal that day. A crowded expressway may have added to whatever pressure Diane was feeling.

 

[robinparten]

Well said, Robin. I for one tend to agree with you.

I have a question which is probably a dumb one: where did Diane's brother and nieces live? I heard the 35 minutes drive figure, but if that's referring to a drive from Westchester County (where the campground was) to Babylon, L.I. (where Dan and Diane lived), then 35 minutes would be optimal time with no traffic jams. One has to go through New York City (at least the Bronx and Queens) to get from upstate NY to Long Island by car.

With people returning to the city after a summer weekend, I seriously doubt the driving conditions were optimal that day. A crowded expressway may have added to whatever pressure Diane was feeling.

Good question, I am not sure where they live, but I do know in the documentary Daniel said he got Diane up around 7, telling her they needed to pack up and get on the road to beat traffic. So they anticipated traffic being heavy. From the timeline in the documentary, it seemed like Diane and the kids were at the McDonalds for about an hour before heading to the gas station where she tried to buy advil. The video of her at McDonalds and the gas station did not show any obvious signs of intoxication, so she had not yet consumed to the point where it showed, and maybe not at all. Like I said, her conversation with her SIL at 12:08 was "coherent" so again, if she had started consuming, it wasn't obvious. But by 12:30 or so, when she stopped at the rest station, other drivers saw her get out of the car and she appeared to be vomiting. So in that 20-30 time period, it seems something went vastly wrong and things started unraveling in a hurry.

 

[mymeow]

Warren and Jackie live in Floral Park. It's on the border of Queens.
(BTW Jackie is expecting a little girl.)

 

[sharkeyes]

...were at the McDonalds for about an hour before heading to the gas station where she tried to buy advil. The video of her at McDonalds and the gas station did not show any obvious signs of intoxication, so she had not yet consumed to the point where it showed, and maybe not at all. Like I said, her conversation with her SIL at 12:08 was "coherent" so again, if she had started consuming, it wasn't obvious. But by 12:30 or so, when she stopped at the rest station, other drivers saw her get out of the car and she appeared to be vomiting. So in that 20-30 time period, it seems something went vastly wrong and things started unraveling in a hurry.

Rignt on!

Makes me wonder if the conversation with her SIL consisted of something more than discussion regarding tickets for the play, because it is immediately after that conversation that things start going bad; something just isn't right...I don't care if she was the perfect picture of wife, mother, employee, and friend who could keep all the balls in the air and not miss a beat - she was still human, we all have a breaking point.

Interesting posts on this site: http://gothamist.com/2009/08/12/diane_schulers_brother_allies_himse.php

 

[robinparten]

Rignt on!

Makes me wonder if the conversation with her SIL consisted of something more than discussion regarding tickets for the play, because it is immediately after that conversation that things start going bad; something just isn't right...I don't care if she was the perfect picture of wife, mother, employee, and friend who could keep all the balls in the air and not miss a beat - she was still human, we all have a breaking point.

Interesting posts on this site: http://gothamist.com/2009/08/12/diane_schulers_brother_allies_himse.php

I tend to believe the conversation between Diane and Jackie was fairly normal, I would think Jackie would have reported or commented on anything she felt in hindsight could have contributed to what happened. Jackie still seems as mystified as any of us, though she accepts the toxicology.

 

[Nova]

Warren and Jackie live in Floral Park. It's on the border of Queens.
(BTW Jackie is expecting a little girl.)

Thank you. Then based on my experience of traffic on Long Island (which includes Queens and Floral Park) I think 35 minutes was really pushing it.

Is it possible Diane was a control freak/closet alcoholic and simply lost it over something as trivial as realizing she wasn't going to make it to the play rehearsal? (Note: I've also seen the play rehearsal called a dance rehearsal. Whatever.)

 

[Nova]

I tend to believe the conversation between Diane and Jackie was fairly normal, I would think Jackie would have reported or commented on anything she felt in hindsight could have contributed to what happened. Jackie still seems as mystified as any of us, though she accepts the toxicology.

She does seem mystified, but she's also a straight-shooter in the documentary. I agree we would have heard if she knew anything.

(ETA: Oops. I got Jackie confused with Jay. Jackie and her husband decided not to be interviewed for the doc. So I'm back to wondering if Diane snapped under the pressure of getting her niece to the rehearsal. Sounds too trivial, I know, and I'm not saying Diane snapped and committed homicide/suicide. I'm wondering if she drank too much that morning to cope with her schedule.)

 

[Saffron]

Thank you. Then based on my experience of traffic on Long Island (which includes Queens and Floral Park) I think 35 minutes was really pushing it.

Is it possible Diane was a control freak/closet alcoholic and simply lost it over something as trivial as realizing she wasn't going to make it to the play rehearsal? (Note: I've also seen the play rehearsal called a dance rehearsal. Whatever.)

It's possible. And it might explain the aggressive driving, honking and tailgating. But then, wouldn't someone this controlling and, in turn, image conscious, worry more about one of the nieces telling her parents about Aunt Diane getting out the vodka bottle or smoking pot on the drive home? Surely these things can't be done all that secretly in broad daylight.

 

[Nova]

It's possible. And it might explain the aggressive driving, honking and tailgating. But then, wouldn't someone this controlling and, in turn, image conscious, worry more about one of the nieces telling her parents about Aunt Diane getting out the vodka bottle or smoking pot on the drive home? Surely these things can't be done all that secretly in broad daylight.

I assume Aunt Diane managed to conceal her drug intake somehow. Vodka could be mixed with orange juice surreptitiously; maybe that was the reason for the multiple stops. I know passers-by thought Diane was vomiting, but if LE found her vomit at the places she stopped, none of the articles say so.

The smoking seems harder to conceal. But I know from personal experience that kids these days are like Hitler Youth when it comes to adults smoking. They are indoctrinated against smoking in school. (Of course, the target is tobacco, but I'm assuming Diane's nieces wouldn't know the difference between pot and tobacco.) (ETA do we know she inhaled the pot? Could she have baked it into brownies or something that could be eaten while she drove?)

So I believe that whenever and wherever she smoked, Diane did so without being seen by the children. Otherwise, the 8-year-old would have said something to her parents during that call, and the parents would have said something to LE and we would all know about it by now.

IIRC, Diane spent 4 hours on the road (including stops) before the accident. Maybe there were additional stops that nobody reported to LE.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Was any paraphenalia found inside of the vehicle or Diane's purse or any weed for that matter?I suppose she could have stopped and ran into a bathroom and fired up an already rolled joint.

 

[southcitymom]

Was any paraphenalia found inside of the vehicle or Diane's purse or any weed for that matter?I suppose she could have stopped and ran into a bathroom and fired up an already rolled joint.

BBM

I had these same questions. If she had a little stash, where was it? Even if she smoked a joint in a bathroom, I feel sure she would have kept the roach and tucked it in her pocket or purse.

I agree with Nova that no smoking went on in front of the kids. But I can tell you from personal experience that it's not difficult to sneak off and smoke a little pot away from disapproving eyes.

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

I watched the documentary and am now working my way through the hundreds of posts and any articles I can find about this horrible case. I am really confused about something:

How long did it normally take Diane Schuler to make the trip from the campground to the Hance home? She had apparently made the trip before
and was comfortable with the route, so with those trips she established an "expected" travel time. I know there are variables like stopping for gas & food, but what was "normal" travel time for Diane Schuler?