Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

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I agree that the cases involving pretty, white, upper middle class girls get a lot of attention, and that often their families are better able to use the media. I also think that sometimes there's public interest when a child goes missing, before he's found. It's almost as though for the average viewer, once the child has been located, the "case is closed."

I also think the media's reinforcing cycle plays into which children get highlighted. If viewers respond to the story of a child, then there will be more coverage. But if a "bigger" story occurs, the missing child can get pushed out of the public's view because the child's story just isn't getting as many views/hits.
 
(SNIP)
... and finally that he is one of the small minority of child preditors interested in physically injuring or killing his victim....
(SNIP)
BBM
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this. What is a child predator interested in if not physically injuring or killing his victim? If a relationship with a child is purely benevolent, then why is the word predator used?
 
I think it is the other half of the "pretty girls go free" thing.

Look at the attention Natalie Holloway recieved; the weeks of non-stop media frenzy. The news played this one missing teen as a national tragedy.

Now look at this Amanda Knox case in Italy -- people who know NOTHING at all about the case are convinced that she is totally innocent for no other reason than that she is pretty. I think a good number of them don't actually care if she is guilty or not, she's hot and aught to go free. The US State Department actually got involved in her case, it was a diplomatic crisis that a pretty girl was in prison.

And let's not forget Casey Anthony. <Mod Snip>it isn't because of her duct-taping or lying skills. They love her fame and her frame.

And while Elizabeth Smart's parents no-doubt worked hard to keep her in the news, I would be willing to bet good money they didn't have to do a whole lot more than keep flashing her picture and giving interviews.

And I am not saying I am better than this myself -- as despicable as this may be (and I admit that it is) I care more about a missing girl than I do about a missing boy. I want justice for all of them, including that little guy (what was his name again?) who went missing in Iowa or Idaho or somewhere like that, but for Celina I want justice right f'ing NOW.

Anyway, I will shut up. Hopefully we hear something soon. I am expecting a new presser any day now, with half the media as the last one, in which the AAG will assure us that they really have some awesome stuff they are following up on, and no, rush job the toxicology tests usually take ten to twenty weeks, but they are still working hard, very hard...

Has one person in Selena's family stepped forward and tried to get media coverage. Have they granted interviews or hidden from the press. When the press was all around they hid. I can understand it, the shock, pain, and all the other emotions but someone needed to speak out for Selena.

Selena's body was found, the family wasn't talking, no one in town was talking, LE wasn't talking. Where were they suppose to get a story?

All the other pretty, white, blonde girls had family who did everything they could to keep the story in the news.

Phylica Barnes. Her mother and father have done everything to keep her story in the news and still are.

It takes family involvement with the press to get the coverage.
 
Parents only have so much control of how much national media coverage their child's case gets. They can give regular press conferences, offer to appear on any shows to plead for information, but in the end, it will be the media that decides how much attention their child's case gets, and for how long.

Kyron Horman was getting lots of national media attention when he first went missing, but that attention dwindled to almost nothing just a few months later. I'm positive that Kaine and Desiree are still willing to speak to whatever media outlet will listen, yet I doubt the TV appearance offers are flying in anymore. Desiree and Kaine have both done things in the local community to keep Kyron's face on everyone's mind, but it's only been the local media who has reported on this.
 
BBM
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this. What is a child predator interested in if not physically injuring or killing his victim? If a relationship with a child is purely benevolent, then why is the word predator used?

I don't know what the OP was thinking but there are things that certain people may be interested in that are definitely not purely benevolent but harm the child emotionally rather than physically injures them. I might use the words child predator about those people as well.
 
I don't know what the OP was thinking but there are things that certain people may be interested in that are definitely not purely benevolent but harm the child emotionally rather than physically injures them. I might use the words child predator about those people as well.

Oh, do you mean child *advertiser censored*? Hard to believe that that would never have a physical component...
 
Has one person in Selena's family stepped forward and tried to get media coverage. Have they granted interviews or hidden from the press. When the press was all around they hid. I can understand it, the shock, pain, and all the other emotions but someone needed to speak out for Selena.

Selena's body was found, the family wasn't talking, no one in town was talking, LE wasn't talking. Where were they suppose to get a story?

All the other pretty, white, blonde girls had family who did everything they could to keep the story in the news.

Phylica Barnes. Her mother and father have done everything to keep her story in the news and still are.

It takes family involvement with the press to get the coverage.

The blame can't be placed on the familiy of a missing child when their case doesn't get anywhere near the coverage that a Holloway or Ramsey or Anthony gets. There are children who have been missing for months and years whose families are front and center, trying to keep interest up so that their child isn't forgotten. Yet those cases don't get the same kind of attention, not even close to it.

The media latches onto cases that have elements that they think will intrique the public (tabloid-level stuff, usually), the public signs on, and then those cases get all the attention. The others get lost in the shuffle to the point that you'd think that only a few of these cases matter. I hate that.

And I don't even find those cases that become media circuses to be the most interesting anyway. I'm probably in the minority on that. But I think there are missing children whose disappearances are far more captivating than the biggies that I mentioned above. I know it's just a matter of personal preference, but still... I wonder how many people really would find those cases interesting if they're just been the run-of-the mill ones? Or are they fascinated with them because of the media? Not sure if I'm being clear here, but it seems like the media's pretty much telling the public which cases they should be interested in.
 
The blame can't be placed on the familiy of a missing child when their case doesn't get anywhere near the coverage that a Holloway or Ramsey or Anthony gets. There are children who have been missing for months and years whose families are front and center, trying to keep interest up so that their child isn't forgotten. Yet those cases don't get the same kind of attention, not even close to it.

The media latches onto cases that have elements that they think will intrique the public (tabloid-level stuff, usually), the public signs on, and then those cases get all the attention. The others get lost in the shuffle to the point that you'd think that only a few of these cases matter. I hate that.

And I don't even find those cases that become media circuses to be the most interesting anyway. I'm probably in the minority on that. But I think there are missing children whose disappearances are far more captivating than the biggies that I mentioned above. I know it's just a matter of personal preference, but still... I wonder how many people really would find those cases interesting if they're just been the run-of-the mill ones? Or are they fascinated with them because of the media? Not sure if I'm being clear here, but it seems like the media's pretty much telling the public which cases they should be interested in.

BBM. I could agree with the bolded statement; sometimes I get sick of the news telling me what's important and ignoring some of things I feel need coverage, especially NG.

On the other hand, I feel the families DO have a need to keep their loved ones in the news - if they don't who will? The families need to push and keep on pushing and, even then, they don't always get justice.

I don't believe it's just pretty little white girls who get the attention - Phylicia Barnes got quite a bit of attention until her family quit pushing, as far as I can ascertain. Holly Bobo is fading out, and she's a pretty blonde. When families clam up, coverage stops, IMHO.
 
Parents only have so much control of how much national media coverage their child's case gets. They can give regular press conferences, offer to appear on any shows to plead for information, but in the end, it will be the media that decides how much attention their child's case gets, and for how long.

Kyron Horman was getting lots of national media attention when he first went missing, but that attention dwindled to almost nothing just a few months later. I'm positive that Kaine and Desiree are still willing to speak to whatever media outlet will listen, yet I doubt the TV appearance offers are flying in anymore. Desiree and Kaine have both done things in the local community to keep Kyron's face on everyone's mind, but it's only been the local media who has reported on this.

Sadly, that is true in most cases.
 
BBM
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by this. What is a child predator interested in if not physically injuring or killing his victim? If a relationship with a child is purely benevolent, then why is the word predator used?

This is a sensitive topic, about as politically incorrect as you can get these days. I am perhaps as hesitant to wade into these waters as Atticus Finch was to defend a black man. None the less, I will do so with the assumption that the majority of readers here have the maturity to understant that correcting misconceptions about criminal behavior is NOT the same thing as endorsing or defending that behavior. Further, I am NOT an expert by any means. I have read a fair amount about it (my wife was sexually abused by her step-father and I kind of oped it would help me understand her a bit better).

Anyway, that was a LONG preface so I will move along...

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children, typically 13 and under, though there numerous sub-classifications in popular culture and perhaps the medical community that cover the entire range of sub-legal age brackets.

The majority of pedophiles (of all flavors) are NOT excited by the idea of violence against children (or anyone else). Of the small percentage of pedophiles who act upon their urges, even here we find that very few act in a way intended to physically injure the child -- with the stipulation that ANY sexual contact with a child is both emotionally and physically damaging to that child. However, and this is a key point, this class of sexual predator, this "normal" pedophile did not TRY to hurt the child. It was not his or her motivation.

"Pedophiles are not generally violent, unless you are using the term sexual violence against children in a moral, rather than a literal, way. Its perpetrators very rarely use force or cause physical injury in a youngster... Bringing themselves down to the maturity level of children rather than trying to drag the child up toward an adult level, many men who engage in sex with children tend toward kissing, mutual masturbation, or "hands-off" encounters such as voyeurism and exhibitionism." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126179&page=3

Essentially... in their own insane way they like the kid, and in the exact same way that a normal adult likes whoever he is attracted to. And just as the normal guy does not even contemplate violently raping his date, this class of pedophile is repulsed by the idea of violently raping a child.

But...

But there are some men (and to a less extent women) who are rapists. And while we label ANY sexual contact between an adult and child as at least statuatory rape, there is a world of difference between statuatory rape and violent rape, both in terms of motivation and outcomes.

Rape is not directly about sex. It is about violence and power. The rapist is excited by the terror, turned on by the tears. And while some have a preferred target type, many do not. They will rape anyone, regardless of age (grandma or toddler, they don't care) and even regardless of sex. Yes, men rape other men too, far more often then one might think. Rape is a VERY underreported crime (almost 60% of ALL rapes go unreported) of those reported about 9% are male victims. It is safe to assume that the actual number is higher.

But this case, assuming an actual crime took place at all, and assuming that it was sexual in nature, it was likely a murder. Or, in any case, that was the suggestion I was responding to.

"After the latter half of the 1980's, the percentage of all murders with known circumstances in which investigators identified rape or another sex offense as the principal circumstance of the murder has declined from about 2% of murders to less than 1%." http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.html

In other words, even violent rapists rarely murder their victims. Again, even violent rapists who are trying to brutalise and torture, rarely kill their victims.

Which brings me back around to the post you quoted.

You basically asked what motivates a child predator if not physically injuring or killing his victim. The problem here is termonolgy -- every Pedophile (every sex criminal actually) is labelled by the media and popular culture as a predator, it's a scary word, it suggests stalking and hunting and killing. In this case the word, scary as it may be, is not necessarily an accurate predictor of what the perpetrator wants to do.

The questions we should ask, before accusing or even suggesting that Celina's "brother" raped and killed her is this: is there any evidence to suggest that he was attracted to young girls? Is there any evidence that he was violent? Is there any evidence that he is or was a rapist?

If the answer to the above questions is no, then any scenario which casually assumes these things is not only unlikely, but completely unfair to a guy who deserves the presumption of innocence and is, so far as the evidence shows so far, a victim.
 
BBM. I could agree with the bolded statement; sometimes I get sick of the news telling me what's important and ignoring some of things I feel need coverage, especially NG.

On the other hand, I feel the families DO have a need to keep their loved ones in the news - if they don't who will? The families need to push and keep on pushing and, even then, they don't always get justice.

I don't believe it's just pretty little white girls who get the attention - Phylicia Barnes got quite a bit of attention until her family quit pushing, as far as I can ascertain. Holly Bobo is fading out, and she's a pretty blonde. When families clam up, coverage stops, IMHO.

I agree. I don't blame families for the lack of attention; as someone pointed out above, Kyron's case is an example. I think that the families' efforts are definitely a factor in keeping attention on a case, however. IMO it is almost like the parents would have to be able to give up every other responsibility they have and devote themselves to nothing but aggressively promoting awareness of the child's case, and quite frankly not many people can afford to do that. They have to live somewhere, they have to eat, maybe they even have to take care of other children - so they can't just walk away from their jobs.
 
I agree. I don't blame families for the lack of attention; as someone pointed out above, Kyron's case is an example. I think that the families' efforts are definitely a factor in keeping attention on a case, however. IMO it is almost like the parents would have to be able to give up every other responsibility they have and devote themselves to nothing but aggressively promoting awareness of the child's case, and quite frankly not many people can afford to do that. They have to live somewhere, they have to eat, maybe they even have to take care of other children - so they can't just walk away from their jobs.

You could well be correct, and in any case I hate to criticize parents. I have simply noticed (and it could be confirmational bias on my part) that a certain "type" of victim is a whole lot more likely to get attention than others. For example, I cannot recall the last time a minority victim even made the national news.

Not saying it never happens, but I am drawing a blank. :waitasec:
 
This is a sensitive topic, about as politically incorrect as you can get these days. I am perhaps as hesitant to wade into these waters as Atticus Finch was to defend a black man. None the less, I will do so with the assumption that the majority of readers here have the maturity to understant that correcting misconceptions about criminal behavior is NOT the same thing as endorsing or defending that behavior. Further, I am NOT an expert by any means. I have read a fair amount about it (my wife was sexually abused by her step-father and I kind of oped it would help me understand her a bit better).



Anyway, that was a LONG preface so I will move along...

A pedophile is someone sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children, typically 13 and under, though there numerous sub-classifications in popular culture and perhaps the medical community that cover the entire range of sub-legal age brackets.

The majority of pedophiles (of all flavors) are NOT excited by the idea of violence against children (or anyone else). Of the small percentage of pedophiles who act upon their urges, even here we find that very few act in a way intended to physically injure the child -- with the stipulation that ANY sexual contact with a child is both emotionally and physically damaging to that child. However, and this is a key point, this class of sexual predator, this "normal" pedophile did not TRY to hurt the child. It was not his or her motivation.

"Pedophiles are not generally violent, unless you are using the term sexual violence against children in a moral, rather than a literal, way. Its perpetrators very rarely use force or cause physical injury in a youngster... Bringing themselves down to the maturity level of children rather than trying to drag the child up toward an adult level, many men who engage in sex with children tend toward kissing, mutual masturbation, or "hands-off" encounters such as voyeurism and exhibitionism." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=126179&page=3

Essentially... in their own insane way they like the kid, and in the exact same way that a normal adult likes whoever he is attracted to. And just as the normal guy does not even contemplate violently raping his date, this class of pedophile is repulsed by the idea of violently raping a child.

But...

But there are some men (and to a less extent women) who are rapists. And while we label ANY sexual contact between an adult and child as at least statuatory rape, there is a world of difference between statuatory rape and violent rape, both in terms of motivation and outcomes.

Rape is not directly about sex. It is about violence and power. The rapist is excited by the terror, turned on by the tears. And while some have a preferred target type, many do not. They will rape anyone, regardless of age (grandma or toddler, they don't care) and even regardless of sex. Yes, men rape other men too, far more often then one might think. Rape is a VERY underreported crime (almost 60% of ALL rapes go unreported) of those reported about 9% are male victims. It is safe to assume that the actual number is higher.

But this case, assuming an actual crime took place at all, and assuming that it was sexual in nature, it was likely a murder. Or, in any case, that was the suggestion I was responding to.

"After the latter half of the 1980's, the percentage of all murders with known circumstances in which investigators identified rape or another sex offense as the principal circumstance of the murder has declined from about 2% of murders to less than 1%." http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/sexoff/sexoff.html

In other words, even violent rapists rarely murder their victims. Again, even violent rapists who are trying to brutalise and torture, rarely kill their victims.

Which brings me back around to the post you quoted.

You basically asked what motivates a child predator if not physically injuring or killing his victim. The problem here is termonolgy -- every Pedophile (every sex criminal actually) is labelled by the media and popular culture as a predator, it's a scary word, it suggests stalking and hunting and killing. In this case the word, scary as it may be, is not necessarily an accurate predictor of what the perpetrator wants to do.

The questions we should ask, before accusing or even suggesting that Celina's "brother" raped and killed her is this: is there any evidence to suggest that he was attracted to young girls? Is there any evidence that he was violent? Is there any evidence that he is or was a rapist? If the answer to the above questions is no, then any scenario which casually assumes these things is not only unlikely, but completely unfair to a guy who deserves the presumption of innocence and is, so far as the evidence shows so far, a victim.

BBM
Excuse me. How can you compare yourself to the (fictional, but finely and idealistically depicted as a moral paragon) likes of Atticus Finch? He was defending an innocent victim of a racist situation.

majority of readers here have the maturity

Yes, I am mature.

Sexual violence against children in a moral rather than literal way
?

You lost me here.

Normal pedophile
, you say? Oh, sure, that sounds okay.

And I haven't said anything whatsoever about Celina's 'brother'.

As for as what constitutes a predator? He/she preys on children. Doesn't matter whether he/she thinks he's doing the right thing,
 
The blame can't be placed on the familiy of a missing child when their case doesn't get anywhere near the coverage that a Holloway or Ramsey or Anthony gets. There are children who have been missing for months and years whose families are front and center, trying to keep interest up so that their child isn't forgotten. Yet those cases don't get the same kind of attention, not even close to it.

The media latches onto cases that have elements that they think will intrique the public (tabloid-level stuff, usually), the public signs on, and then those cases get all the attention. The others get lost in the shuffle to the point that you'd think that only a few of these cases matter. I hate that.

And I don't even find those cases that become media circuses to be the most interesting anyway. I'm probably in the minority on that. But I think there are missing children whose disappearances are far more captivating than the biggies that I mentioned above. I know it's just a matter of personal preference, but still... I wonder how many people really would find those cases interesting if they're just been the run-of-the mill ones? Or are they fascinated with them because of the media? Not sure if I'm being clear here, but it seems like the media's pretty much telling the public which cases they should be interested in.

I totally agree. Every missing child, every abused child, every neglected chld should be seen and we should hear about them. Instead we hear weeks and months of the same story, different day, same child. ALL OF THEM MATTER!
 
Nowadays, it's not that difficult for a case to get national attention. You have 24/7 cable news channels, shows like JVM and NG that normally focus on true crime, national news websites that post dozens of headlines, etc. I would bet that a good majority of cases posted on WS received at least one instance of national attention.

However, for the vast majority of cases that make national headlines, their time in the spotlight is brief. Obviously, every case has to fade out of the news eventually, but most cases are never talked about again after they leave the news (unless there's a huge development), while others can make their way back into the spotlight, relatively easily.
 
The blame can't be placed on the familiy of a missing child when their case doesn't get anywhere near the coverage that a Holloway or Ramsey or Anthony gets. There are children who have been missing for months and years whose families are front and center, trying to keep interest up so that their child isn't forgotten. Yet those cases don't get the same kind of attention, not even close to it.

The media latches onto cases that have elements that they think will intrique the public (tabloid-level stuff, usually), the public signs on, and then those cases get all the attention. The others get lost in the shuffle to the point that you'd think that only a few of these cases matter. I hate that.

And I don't even find those cases that become media circuses to be the most interesting anyway. I'm probably in the minority on that. But I think there are missing children whose disappearances are far more captivating than the biggies that I mentioned above. I know it's just a matter of personal preference, but still... I wonder how many people really would find those cases interesting if they're just been the run-of-the mill ones? Or are they fascinated with them because of the media? Not sure if I'm being clear here, but it seems like the media's pretty much telling the public which cases they should be interested in.

You're talking about blame, I'm talking about reasons. If no one will talk to the press they can't get a story. That was my point.

Without any indication that they can get a story the press they will move on. When the case begins to grow cold unless the family gets out and pushes to keep it in the media it won't get coverage.

The media does promote their own stories because they are lazy. Every station, every news story is the same. None of them differ for the most part.
 
I totally agree. Every missing child, every abused child, every neglected chld should be seen and we should hear about them. Instead we hear weeks and months of the same story, different day, same child. ALL OF THEM MATTER!

There are about 2100 children reported missing every day - and that doesn't include abused and neglected. If each case was given only 30 seconds on the national news, it would take over 17 hours. And that's just the new cases each day. So you can see why that is simply not practical. The few cases that do get attention seem to be those with intriguing characteristics that news outlets figure will capture the attention of the public. If it does, they cover it until new information dries up. If too many cases are highlighted on the news, people eventually accept the situation as "normal" or boring and lose interest. You can see this with US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. At first everyone was glued to their TVs when the story covering the daily number of US troops killed was covered. Now it's such a routine news event that it's covered only briefly, if at all, and it generates practically no interest. I live in southern New Hampshire and regularly watch the news stations in Boston Mass. Every day there's at least one or two shootings or murders down there. It's such a routine event that I could care less - unless there's something about it that's really shocking. I believe news stories and the interest in them is directly related to how unusual the event is.
 
There are about 2100 children reported missing every day - and that doesn't include abused and neglected. If each case was given only 30 seconds on the national news, it would take over 17 hours. And that's just the new cases each day. So you can see why that is simply not practical. The few cases that do get attention seem to be those with intriguing characteristics that news outlets figure will capture the attention of the public. If it does, they cover it until new information dries up. If too many cases are highlighted on the news, people eventually accept the situation as "normal" or boring and lose interest. You can see this with US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. At first everyone was glued to their TVs when the story covering the daily number of US troops killed was covered. Now it's such a routine news event that it's covered only briefly, if at all, and it generates practically no interest. I live in southern New Hampshire and regularly watch the news stations in Boston Mass. Every day there's at least one or two shootings or murders down there. It's such a routine event that I could care less - unless there's something about it that's really shocking. I believe news stories and the interest in them is directly related to how unusual the event is.

OK. I'll shut up!
 
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