Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 #10 *Arrest*

[k4kathy]

Think 23 year old............

Tell us why???

 

[Joe Friday]

There was an article on the front page of the Union Leader today. According to them, Mom and WN have seperated and are not talking to each other at all. She is back to work though. The article also mentioned the body wrapped in a blanket. According to the article, people are nervous and are keeping a close watch on their kids.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110904/NEWS15/110909962

I didn't see much interaction between LN and WN from the get go other then at one of the vigil's that was held early on.

LN wasn't seen or reported to be with WN when he was seen going to the hospital after his driveway episode. LN wasn't seen or reported to be with WN when she was walked out of IIRC the command center by what was called a "human shield" using a blanket. LN wasn't seen or reported to be with WN at the house where he was photographed eating a sandwich. LN wasn't reported to be with WN when he and his sister checked into a motel and an hour later he checked into the hospital where is still receiving treatment today as far as we know.

I would say LN distanced or separated herself from WN a lot earlier than when it was reported in the Union Leader.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

It doesn't sound like they know for sure who the perp is. If they had their eyes on WN, would they still be looking at increasing the reward? :waitasec:

The fact that they are increasing the reward towards information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death leads me to believe they think she was murdered even if they don't have the evidence to prove it yet. It sounds like accidental or suicide is ruled out, imo.

Who is they?

If the AG, LE, FBI or any other agency that was involved in the investigation was going to increase the reward amount it would be a substantial amount and not an odd number of Six Hundred dollars and change.

IMO this was a contribution from either a private source, charity, fund raiser, ect, ect. So I wouldn't related the increase of this amount to the reward fund, as the authorities not knowing who the perp is.

JMO

 

[WizPro]

Think 23 year old............

WN KM
Unrelated male living in home with young females Yes Yes
Criminal background Yes Yes
Crime involving assault Yes No
Sexual crime Yes No
Several family members convicted of sexual crime Yes No
Quoted as "grieving" before death was known Yes No
Strange, falling down, behavior Yes No
Subsequent estrangement from family Yes No
Entered federal institution, possible haven from arrest Yes No

 

[Joe Friday]

The fact that they are increasing the reward towards information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death leads me to believe they think she was murdered even if they don't have the evidence to prove it yet. It sounds like accidental or suicide is ruled out, imo.

BBM

They (LE or the ME) cannot rule anything out until the TOX reports come back. For example a drug overdose would normally be ruled an accidental death. A drug overdose would not present itself as being the obvious COD to investigators who found her body or the ME during the autopsy and would also likely rule out murder in this case, unless there was evidence it was a poisoning. If this is a case of drug overdose or poisoning then the case comes down to who was with her at the time and who disposed of her body in a panic.

The only thing I think "they" can rule out is that the COD was maybe not obvious to the naked eye of investigators or the ME, such as bullet or stab wound(s), blunt force trauma, ligature or strangulation marks on her neck or drowning. But there have been cases where the ME have completely missed the obvious during the autopsy. One case that comes to mind is David Widlak who supposedly took his own life with a revolver shot to the back of the head. The ME who preformed the first autopsy completely missed the bullet wound to the back of his head and neck and the bullet that had reportedly lodged in his lung. It wasn't until a second private autopsy was preformed at the insistence of his widow that the bullet and bullet wound was found. You surely would have thought a bullet in his lung would have shown up in an X-ray had the body been X-ray'ed during the first autopsy. And you would surely think that an x-ray of the whole body would be protocol in every autopsy involving a suspicious death. But apparently not.

You can read more about David Widlak here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115006&highlight=David+Widlak


JMO

 

[~n/t~]

Who is they?

If the AG, LE, FBI or any other agency that was involved in the investigation was going to increase the reward amount it would be a substantial amount and not an odd number of Six Hundred dollars and change.

IMO this was a contribution from either a private source, charity, fund raiser, ect, ect. So I wouldn't related the increase of this amount to the reward fund, as the authorities not knowing who the perp is.

JMO

ummm ya, I mentioned that in an earlier post about the $656 or whatever it was possibly coming from public donations.

I still don't think authorities have a clue who the perp is.

 

[~n/t~]

BBM

They (LE or the ME) cannot rule anything out until the TOX reports come back. For example a drug overdose would normally be ruled an accidental death. A drug overdose would not present itself as being the obvious COD to investigators who found her body or the ME during the autopsy and would also likely rule out murder in this case, unless there was evidence it was a poisoning. If this is a case of drug overdose or poisoning then the case comes down to who was with her at the time and who disposed of her body in a panic.

The only thing I think "they" can rule out is that the COD was maybe not obvious to the naked eye of investigators or the ME, such as bullet or stab wound(s), blunt force trauma, ligature or strangulation marks on her neck or drowning. But there have been cases where the ME have completely missed the obvious during the autopsy. One case that comes to mind is David Widlak who supposedly took his own life with a revolver shot to the back of the head. The ME who preformed the first autopsy completely missed the bullet wound to the back of his head and neck and the bullet that had reportedly lodged in his lung. It wasn't until a second private autopsy was preformed at the insistence of his widow that the bullet and bullet wound was found. You surely would have thought a bullet in his lung would have shown up in an X-ray had the body been X-ray'ed during the first autopsy. And you would surely think that an x-ray of the whole body would be protocol in every autopsy involving a suspicious death. But apparently not.

You can read more about David Widlak here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115006&highlight=David+Widlak


JMO

Did you read the article I was replying to? The article mentioned the reward and information leading to an arrest and prosecution?

Who would authorities arrest if it was a suicide or accident?

 

[The Farm]

I certainly never thought for a minute that is was a suicide or an accident but I wish they would get on with it already.

k4kathy I love your green cabbage!

 

[~n/t~]

BTW.....When I refer to "they", I mean authorities. Law Enforcement Agencies. I thought it was pretty clear but maybe not. :innocent:

 

[Joe Friday]

WN KM
Unrelated male living in home with young females Yes Yes
Criminal background Yes Yes
Crime involving assault Yes No
Sexual crime Yes No
Several family members convicted of sexual crime Yes No
Quoted as "grieving" before death was known Yes No
Strange, falling down, behavior Yes No
Subsequent estrangement from family Yes No
Entered federal institution, possible haven from arrest Yes No

Maybe you forgot "history of mental health issues".

Although we don't know for sure if KM had any mental health issues in the past.

Also in your table what Sexual Crime was WN implicated in or convicted of? I think he was implicated in a domestic abuse charge when he broke into an ex-girlfriend's home and threatened her, but the charge was eventually dropped because of his mental condition of not being fit to stand trial at the time and he was never tired or convicted of the crime.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

Did you read the article I was replying to? The article mentioned the reward and information leading to an arrest and prosecution?

Who would authorities arrest if it was a suicide or accident?

BBM

No I didn't read the article. I was referring to what I bolded in your post, which I quoted in my post. Which was: It sounds like accidental or suicide is ruled out, imo. The entire quote in which I replied to is pictured below.

You added the IMO (In My Opinion) to your statement so that is your opinion, not what was written in an article. It is your opinion that it sounds like accidental (death) or suicide is (has been) ruled out. My opinion is that accidental death or suicide cannot be ruled out until the TOX reports are back and I was merely pointing out why I think nothing can be ruled out until then. Such as perhaps she died of a drug overdose, which would be considered an accidental death.

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

The fact that they are increasing the reward towards information leading to the arrest and prosecution of anyone involved in her death leads me to believe they think she was murdered even if they don't have the evidence to prove it yet. It sounds like accidental or suicide is ruled out, imo.

 

[~n/t~]

BBM

No I didn't read the article. I was referring to what I bolded in your post, which I quoted in my post. Which was: It sounds like accidental or suicide is ruled out, imo. The entire quote in which I replied to is pictured below.

You added the IMO (In My Opinion) to your statement so that is your opinion, not what was written in an article. It is your opinion that it sounds like accidental (death) or suicide is (has been) ruled out. My opinion is that accidental death or suicide cannot be ruled out until the TOX reports are back and I was merely pointing out why I think nothing can be ruled out until then. Such as perhaps she died of a drug overdose, which would be considered an accidental death.

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

My point is if they (authorities) put a reward for information leading to an arrest / prosecution <paraphrasing>, in my opinion they ruled out suicide or accidental. Why would they (authorities) put up a reward if they felt it was suicide or accidental? They have a pretty good idea this was a homicide. They just have no clue as to the WHO WHAT WHERE WHEN WHY AND HOW.

You don't arrest and prosecute anyone for a suicide or accident.......KWIM? They specifically worded it in such a way that they believe it is homicide. They just don't have the evidence to prove it yet.


Hope this makes sense. If not, I tried. lol Read the article, it may make it clearer

 

[bstnh1]

WN KM
Unrelated male living in home with young females Yes Yes
Criminal background Yes Yes
Crime involving assault Yes No
Sexual crime Yes No
Several family members convicted of sexual crime Yes No
Quoted as "grieving" before death was known Yes No
Strange, falling down, behavior Yes No
Subsequent estrangement from family Yes No
Entered federal institution, possible haven from arrest Yes No

Ah, yes........but who is the one person we know for sure was awake and in the house around 11 pm? Who's the one person who has past associations with drug users/dealers? Who's vehicle did LE tow away very early in the game?

 

[cocomod]

I think that it is entirely possible that LE may "know" who was involved IF there are criminal aspects to this death. I think it is entirely possible that the reward money would be to solidify their case with information from the public or eye witness accounts vs an entirely circumstantial case. I think that it is possible that this is the reason that the reward money is a lower amount. This is all IMHO.

 

[cluciano63]

It could also mean the arrest/prosecution of the person who "put" Celina into the water. That in itself would be a crime, and if cause of death really can't be determined, it may well be the only one that they are able to prosecute.

 

[voxrock2000]

Has there ever been mention of Celina's sister, who shared the room with her, of her account of that night? Did Celina ever make it to her room? The only thing i have heard about her is that they moved out of the house after a while because she was afraid.... Like it would take that to make me move my family out of the house one of my children was taken from in the middle of the night and killed? I would have grabbed my family and run, yet they stayed there for weeks... strange.

 

[Joe Friday]

Has there ever been mention of Celina's sister, who shared the room with her, of her account of that night? Did Celina ever make it to her room? The only thing i have heard about her is that they moved out of the house after a while because she was afraid.... Like it would take that to make me move my family out of the house one of my children was taken from in the middle of the night and killed? I would have grabbed my family and run, yet they stayed there for weeks... strange.

Celina's sister was staying at a friends house for a sleep over that night so I doubt she would know if Celina made it to her room that night.

JMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

Sadly, so far at least, we don't even have solid circumstancial evidence. The behavior of the most 'popular' suspect, the step-dad, could as easily be explained as the passionate grief of a father and the terrified over reaction of a paranoid schizophrenic. Nor does he have any motive that we are aware of.

Along the same lines, there is nothing suggesting that the 23 year old was involved either. He seemed to genuinely like Celina, and in the pictures we have seen she really liked him as well. If he was a molester, he was a PATIENT one. He lived with her, LIVED with her, for a year and likely knew her well for far longer. In order to suspect him of a sexual murder we have to make quite a few assumptions without evidence.

We have to believe that he wanted to sexually assualt her in the first place; and that he suddenly decided he was tired of waiting; and that Celina rejected his advances AND threatened to tell (or that she had been the target of long term abuse and decided to put a stop to it -- something that their pictures and facebook accounts do not seem to support); and finally that he is one of the small minority of child preditors interested in physically injuring or killing his victim.

In other words it doesn't fit very well. The violent monster "grooms" when he has to (for example, online) in order to gain access, and then only as long as is needed. He doesn't want to be their boyfriend. In any case, the 23 year old ex-con seems to be the most normal person in the family, and certainly mom does not suspect him.

And speaking of mom, her behavior was so odd it makes the guy with the clinical and chronic mental illness seem positively normal. I have never seen or heard of anyone acting the way that she has, and not one thing or one instance, but many, and from apparently minute one. Which is NOT to say that I believe she is guilty of anything.

I suspect in this case that it was none of the above, and that is was either someone that was a frequent party-guest (as reported by one source) or the child-sex-criminal brother of the step-dad (I believe I have that relationship correct).

In any case, I think we are all just making guesses until the police release some actual information. And I don't believe they have any intention of doing that until someone sues to force the release -- and as Celina was not rich or blonde I don't think that is likely to happen. I believe the AG's office would be more than thrilled if the public would forget all about Celina.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[JeannieC]

In any case, I think we are all just making guesses until the police release some actual information. And I don't believe they have any intention of doing that until someone sues to force the release -- and as Celina was not rich or blonde I don't think that is likely to happen. I believe the AG's office would be more than thrilled if the public would forget all about Celina.

Just my opinion of course.

IMO Excellent post. I'm just confused with the statement I have bolded. Can you be more specific? Thanks

 

[Chris_Texas]

IMO Excellent post. I'm just confused with the statement I have bolded. Can you be more specific? Thanks

Sorry.

In my opinion the police and AG's office do not have the evidence to make an arrest, let alone prosecute, and I think it is unlikely that the toxicology results will help. They certainly know a LOT more than they are saying of course: they know how she was found, what she was wearing if anything, probably they know if she was sexually active and they might know whether or not she was raped, they might even have a very good idea what killed her.

They will also know as much as it is possible to know about how well the family really got along, who was a frequent guest and when and how often, they will know and have talked to everyone who knew her or the family, and the entire calender of the last weeks of her life.

And all of that, and much more, might not be enough to say that it was The Butler, in the pantry, with the candlestick -- and they need to know that, with evidence of some sort, before they can move ahead.

In other words, I believe this case is going nowhere, and when it's going nowhere the police would just as soon everyone -- and particularly the media -- forget about it. If they can possibly get away with it they will sweep it under the rug. So long as the media puts them on the spot they will mutter platitudes about their many cool leads, and stay vigilant, and these things take time, and no, no more questions thanks.

If they can get away with it they will not release the autopsy or tox tests. They wont say how the body was found or any of the things they know -- even if releasing the information might potentially break open a dead-end case. In order to get this information I suspect that someone in the media will have to take them to court and get a judge to order the information released.

Sadly, Celina does not fit the blonde-haired blue-eyed rich kid the media loves to fawn over. If she was THIS girl...

<modsnipped as not related to case and no link was posted which could be a copyright violation>

...the NY Times the LA Times and the BBC would have reporters at the Assistant AG's pressers, and their lawyers would already be working on forcing the AG's office to tell what they know.