Conrad Murray Trial - Day Ten
- Thread starter Talina
- Start date
BBM
I think it was just blurred. I could see a small white line and it looked like a blurred "6" to me, not "8".
MJ did not have heart disease. No abnormalities noticed with his heart. Arteries did not show atherosclerosis. Unusual for this age of person. Build up of fat or cholesterol on vessels in heart. Very healthy individual for his age.
Coroner: MJ did not have heart disease and was a healthy individual for his age.
Coroner: No drama or natural disease was determined to be cause of death
Pros: did you observe his esophagus
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you observe any white substance or white milky fluid in his esophagus or stomach
Coroner: no, nothing like that
Pros: did you also examine the stomach in detail to determine if you could find any pill tablets or capsules of any kind
Coroner: yes I did
Pros: what did you find
Coroner: 70 grams of dark fluid, but no pills or capsules
Pros: was reason for this to be to determine if oral pills could have been cause of death
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also check mouth and upper airway for any foreign material that could have been in mouth or upper airway
Coroner: yes
Pros: did yo find any
Coroner: no
Pros: in conducting your autopsy, you were not able to determine cause of death
Coroner: correct
Pros: did you request toxicology and see out other experts including anethesiologist
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also witness the transcript and read through transcript of interview with D.r Murray
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also see out medical records from Dr.Murray for his medical treatment on that day (6/25)
coroner: yes
Pros: were you able to receive it
Coroner: no
Coroner: No drama or natural disease was determined to be cause of death
Pros: did you observe his esophagus
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you observe any white substance or white milky fluid in his esophagus or stomach
Coroner: no, nothing like that
Pros: did you also examine the stomach in detail to determine if you could find any pill tablets or capsules of any kind
Coroner: yes I did
Pros: what did you find
Coroner: 70 grams of dark fluid, but no pills or capsules
Pros: was reason for this to be to determine if oral pills could have been cause of death
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also check mouth and upper airway for any foreign material that could have been in mouth or upper airway
Coroner: yes
Pros: did yo find any
Coroner: no
Pros: in conducting your autopsy, you were not able to determine cause of death
Coroner: correct
Pros: did you request toxicology and see out other experts including anethesiologist
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also witness the transcript and read through transcript of interview with D.r Murray
Coroner: yes
Pros: did you also see out medical records from Dr.Murray for his medical treatment on that day (6/25)
coroner: yes
Pros: were you able to receive it
Coroner: no
P: upon receipt of toxicology report were you able to determine manner of death
C: yes, manner was homicide
P: for what reason
c: well based on the level of propofol and other drugs in the system and propofol being administered by other person (person being someone other than decedent) there was not a medical indication. problem MJ was having was that he couldn't sleep, it is not appropriate to give this type of medication for this condition
p: did you also consider the setting
c: yes, it was outside a medical setting, it was not in a hospital, it was in a home, monitors that should be there were not, etc (naming them all)
C: yes, manner was homicide
P: for what reason
c: well based on the level of propofol and other drugs in the system and propofol being administered by other person (person being someone other than decedent) there was not a medical indication. problem MJ was having was that he couldn't sleep, it is not appropriate to give this type of medication for this condition
p: did you also consider the setting
c: yes, it was outside a medical setting, it was not in a hospital, it was in a home, monitors that should be there were not, etc (naming them all)
Manner of death, homicide. Several issues, circumstances, Murray statement to police, propofol administered by another person other than the decedent. Murray admitted administering propofol. Not an appropriate medical indication, problem with sleep is not appropriate. Got a phone call missed the rest. Anyone else?
Did I hear that part correctly. No precision measuring devices for how much propofol was administered. The doctor could have administered more than what he thought he had? This witness just put another nail in Murrays defense coffin, did he not?
p: now once you have finished your review of everything did you determine the cause of death
c: yes
P; what was cause of death
c: overdose of propofol and contributing factor bezodiazpeins(sp)
maing thing was propofol but smaller contributions from the smaller sedatives
p: would those smaller sedatives worked to have result in a quicker enchanced situation along with the propofol
c: yes (and expanding on that)
c: yes
P; what was cause of death
c: overdose of propofol and contributing factor bezodiazpeins(sp)
maing thing was propofol but smaller contributions from the smaller sedatives
p: would those smaller sedatives worked to have result in a quicker enchanced situation along with the propofol
c: yes (and expanding on that)
Yes, you heard correctly.
OT: hubby just said let me see a picture of that guy (coroner) so I showed him on my screen.
He says now would he just be a blast to sit through in a meeting.
I know this is bad but I am just waiting for defense to have a go at this guy. I wonder which defense lawyer will take a turn at making himself look like a big fat meanie?
p: did you notice anything unusual about the rubber stopper in the 100g propofol bottle
c: yes
p: what did you notice
c: the center of the rubber stopper has more or less a linear opening in it. no needle punctures, just this linear opening
p: did you draw any conclusions as to what would have made that opening, but not since medical school
def: objection
judge: sustained until foundation is established dr knows
p: marking exhibits showing stopper
p: can you see to what you are referring to the linear cut
c: yes
p: what is this
c: in about the center of the stopper there is an opening from side to side
p: basically a cut or an opening going from where you point the circle demarcation it is within that circle
c: yes
(my note: it is clear on the photo there is a cut in the rubber)
p: now are you familiar with what a syringe needle marking would leave on this
c: yes
p: did you observe any syringe needle markings
c: no
p: are you familiar with what could have made this linear opening
defense objected,, judge overruled
c: i personally have used devices that could make this kind of opening,but not since medical school
p: what medical device
c: the medical device is called a spike, you would push a spike into the rubber stopper and then the propofol will flow out into the end
break for lunch break
c: yes
p: what did you notice
c: the center of the rubber stopper has more or less a linear opening in it. no needle punctures, just this linear opening
p: did you draw any conclusions as to what would have made that opening, but not since medical school
def: objection
judge: sustained until foundation is established dr knows
p: marking exhibits showing stopper
p: can you see to what you are referring to the linear cut
c: yes
p: what is this
c: in about the center of the stopper there is an opening from side to side
p: basically a cut or an opening going from where you point the circle demarcation it is within that circle
c: yes
(my note: it is clear on the photo there is a cut in the rubber)
p: now are you familiar with what a syringe needle marking would leave on this
c: yes
p: did you observe any syringe needle markings
c: no
p: are you familiar with what could have made this linear opening
defense objected,, judge overruled
c: i personally have used devices that could make this kind of opening,but not since medical school
p: what medical device
c: the medical device is called a spike, you would push a spike into the rubber stopper and then the propofol will flow out into the end
break for lunch break
Soulmagent
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What time is it now in California?
I have been in an out all day ,but when I heard Smith say he never noted the propofol bottle in the IV bag I was surprized.
I have been in an out all day ,but when I heard Smith say he never noted the propofol bottle in the IV bag I was surprized.
borndem
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Now comes the Forensic M.E. - A real Party Guy, this one. But at least everyone s/be able to follow him in what can be a complex area of testimony.
Nothing obvious to indicate cause of death.
MJ's general health - healthier that the avg. person his age
Found enlarged prostate --> difficult to uninate; vitiligo; polyp in colon; mild diffuse swelling in nervous system; scarring in lungs; some arthritis; dental - implants & root canals; noticed "irregular pigmentation" at the top of his scalp (from previous accident of his hair catching on fire; 5'9', 136lbs - within normal range; thinner than normal; showed photo
no heart disease, no abnormalities; cor. arteries - no atheroschlerosis which is unusual for someone of his age not to have a little(build-up of fat & cholesterol); no natural disease found that would indicate death; esophagus normal, no milky fluid there or in the stomach; stomach did show 70 grams of dark fluid, no pills or capsules; mouth & airway trachea - no foreign materials found;
Could not find COD on this day - consulted others & read CM's transcript.
Could not obtain a listing of treatment from CM; consulted anesthesiologist;
Found Homicide as Manner of Death & than
Risk outweighs benefit of using propofol for insomnia; no ekg monitor or dosing device, no equip. for resuscitation if pt. should stop breathing; no equip. for improving circulation; found no evidence of self-administration of propofol; in order for MJ to do this himself in 2 minutes - he was under the influence of propofol - takes a while for leg-injected propofol to work & this scenario doesn't make as much sense as does someone else doing it -- too much has to happen in too short a time; propofol dose would be estimated & too much could be given & doc not realize it.
Cause of Death: Acute Propofol poisoning & benzodiazpene effect: midazolam & lorazepam are benzo's which exacerbate respiration problems & could cause cardiovascular problems which could cause the heart to stop.
Also pointed out the stopper of the propofol vial was not made by a needle but could be a cut -- showed it and it was nearly side to side in the rubber area. (excuse scrawling, please)
Nothing obvious to indicate cause of death.
MJ's general health - healthier that the avg. person his age
Found enlarged prostate --> difficult to uninate; vitiligo; polyp in colon; mild diffuse swelling in nervous system; scarring in lungs; some arthritis; dental - implants & root canals; noticed "irregular pigmentation" at the top of his scalp (from previous accident of his hair catching on fire; 5'9', 136lbs - within normal range; thinner than normal; showed photo
no heart disease, no abnormalities; cor. arteries - no atheroschlerosis which is unusual for someone of his age not to have a little(build-up of fat & cholesterol); no natural disease found that would indicate death; esophagus normal, no milky fluid there or in the stomach; stomach did show 70 grams of dark fluid, no pills or capsules; mouth & airway trachea - no foreign materials found;
Could not find COD on this day - consulted others & read CM's transcript.
Could not obtain a listing of treatment from CM; consulted anesthesiologist;
Found Homicide as Manner of Death & than
Risk outweighs benefit of using propofol for insomnia; no ekg monitor or dosing device, no equip. for resuscitation if pt. should stop breathing; no equip. for improving circulation; found no evidence of self-administration of propofol; in order for MJ to do this himself in 2 minutes - he was under the influence of propofol - takes a while for leg-injected propofol to work & this scenario doesn't make as much sense as does someone else doing it -- too much has to happen in too short a time; propofol dose would be estimated & too much could be given & doc not realize it.
Cause of Death: Acute Propofol poisoning & benzodiazpene effect: midazolam & lorazepam are benzo's which exacerbate respiration problems & could cause cardiovascular problems which could cause the heart to stop.
Also pointed out the stopper of the propofol vial was not made by a needle but could be a cut -- showed it and it was nearly side to side in the rubber area. (excuse scrawling, please)
We need a nurse to explain if this is what was talked about on earlier threads. Spiked as in put into the saline bag and spiked onto the iv tubing to flow directly into MJs leg? So the entire 100 ml bottle just went into his blood stream?