NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[dcgrumpy]

I'm curious if there really was a drifter why does every story about him site the NYPost as the source? That seems strange to me. Especially since it's the Post we're talking about.

 

[the quiet girl]

I dont know why I never tried google earth, I used to love it when it was new.
So I just tried however it shows the last date of the image to be 9/20/2010, still good to compare and I tried to have the images play back in a time loop from the date when Shannan disappeared. It was just blurry.
Anyone else have a go at a better image?
Wish SeaSlug had some.
so this is a point of view looking into the marsh land btw

those were in progression going further out and photobucket only saves the image so big
and

 

[Pinkhammer]

This article says it is Shannan Gilbert:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...und-oak-beach-i-missing-2010-article-1.990801

Wonder how they can be so sure without autopsy?

Has there been a confession?

 

[Seaslug44]

I took some measurements from various spots around the wetlands.

First, this is a measurement from the edge of the road to where it appears they found the body today.

Just for the record, I searched through dozens of photos taken back in March and April of this area from all different angles and I could not see any signs of skeletal remains. It is very likely that the remains were impressed within the mud and then covered with vegetation or they simply were not at this location in March or April (let you decide how the remains could have moved there). This would explain why the FBI chopper's footage did not photograph the remains either.

As we all know, LE is pretty certain that the remains belong to SG. So I got to thinking, if SG was able think more rationally that evening than most people are giving her credit for, what would a rational person do to try to 1) Make headway towards home and 2) still stay out of sight from the people she was running from. Someone here posted a blurb about when we were young and how we played outdoors. That thought reminded me of playing manhunt or flashlight tag with the scouts when I was a kid. One very popular tactic to avoid detection but also to keep one's bearings was to simply follow a road but stay just within the brush 100 or 200 feet. It would not have taken SG much logical thinking to know that she had to follow the highway towards those giant bridges (that at this point were practically casting a shadow down on her with the sunrise directly behind the bridges) So here is a measurement of SG taking the trail up behind the tool sheds/tennis courts and following the road at a safe distance (but still within view).

I do realize that this scenario does not explain how her belongings ended up further South. But then again, we already have been told that it could have been wildlife that moved them away from her body.

The other scenario that got me thinking was what if SG thought she was running out of the neighborhood but made that crucial wrong right turn onto Anchor Way. If she kept on running, eventually she would have ran out of pavement to run on. If she indeed saw cars moving on Ocean Parkway, this is the measurement of her journey if she went across the wetlands from the end of the road;

Once again, that scenario doesn't account for her belongings.

Speaking of her belongings (pants, purse, lip gloss, shoes & cell phone), here is a measurement from where they were found last week to where the body was found today;

Here is a measurement from CPH's house that would put her within the vicinity of that area where her belongings were found;

Finally, it has been speculated (even by myself) that a tip of some sorts came in this week to alert the investigators as to exactly where to look for her body. But now that I think about it, finding SG's remains was actually very simple once her belongings were located. All the investigators had to do was draw a straight line from the point where SG was last seen to the point where her belongings were found and then simply continue at that same compass course heading. One thing I forgot about Ocean Parkway- lamp posts are far and few between. If SG was out there in those wetlands and it was still dark when she entered them, that lone light on the road less than a half mile away could have been what SG fixated upon to keep her bearings and heading towards the highway.

If you draw a straight line from where she was last seen through where her belongings were found and continue to head in that exact same direction it would have brought the detectives to where they were searching this morning. Here is that scenario illustrated. The area circled is where her belongings were found;

The body that was found today was found exactly where the detectives expected to find SG's body based upon simple geometry. It seems like an open and shut case when viewed in this manner. Then again, what if SG's body was placed there and then someone who resides within Oak Beach who is very familiar with how to navigate the wetlands picked her body clean of all items that could be used to identify her and then on their way back to their residence within Oak Beach, they scattered her belongings in the exact center of the wetlands were it surely would have been almost impossible for any outsider to discover them.

Just saying... maybe it's not so much an open and shut case is it?

 

[Seaslug44]

By the way, there are 5,280 feet in a mile.

So the distance from where she was last seen to where the remains were found today is .38 of a mile (just over 1/3 of a mile) straight through the wetlands.

The distance from today's remains to SG's belongings is .28 (just over a quarter of a mile).

To put this into perspective, her belongings were four NFL football fields (end zone to end zone) away from where the remains were found and the remains were over five and a half football fields away from where she was last observed running.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Agreed. When the ME report comes out and a COD is given, there are gonna be a lot of folks who still won't believe it if it turns out to be accidental. People have invested toooooo much time in connecting SG to a SK or a single individual (CPH) to ever be able to go back and listen to the voice of reason. I hope for SG's family that it is accidental. I would hate to bear the thought that my kid was murdered and discarded like trash. Let her keep her dignity and stop drawing at straws for conspiracies sake.

Horse hash. I've never been invested in SG's death being either intentional or the work of our guy, Nug. My issues with this particular accidental death scenario are legitimate.

1. We have a woman who ran from a house screaming that someone was trying to kill her.

2. We have reports that on the 911 tape, SG could be heard being forced into a vehicle.

3. We have her personal belongings ditched 1/4 of a mile from where her remains were found. Why the hell did she remove her jeans to run through this thicket?! Why the hell ditch her cell phone...her only lifeline to help?!

4. And finally, through this impossible tangle of brush, she makes it all the freaking way through to the edge of this thicket to OP, and THEN dies?!

I simply find all these things combined pretty damned hard to swallow.

JMO

 

[Seaslug44]

Just uploaded some photos of the area where the remains were found. Not much to see. If there are remains there then I am sure they were under the vegetation. You can view some of the photos here;

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156696&page=2

Or I also uploaded to photobucket here;

http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/Seaslug444/Oak%20Beach%20Wetlands/

Only thing that really caught my eye was this photo that really helps it sink in how tough it is to find anyone (dead or alive). It's a photo of two patrol vehicles doing their turn at guarding the entrance to Ocean Parkway during last Spring's searches/investigations. They were so close to these remains and didn't have a clue.

 

[Seaslug44]

Very interesting photo that tells us so much.

This is a photo to the trail leading towards where the remains were found. Look in the background. Notice that the home is about 1000 feet away. The homes there are perched up on stilts to protect them from damage from extreme high tides and to also give them views of the bay. Anyone in that home with a pair of binoculars could have easily zoomed-in on the remains.

 

[rosemary]

That area was ABSOLUTELY searched during the full-scale search back in May!!! I drove down there after the search and I saw all of the papers and markers on the shoulder. The area where the body was found was searched by the police cadets as well as Officer John Malia and his dog Blue!!!

The bramble is not as thick as Dormer says!! It is actually a very thin area of bramble in that area! Especially in early May. That bramble may slow you down, but it is not IMPOSSIBLE to get through!

The searchers were in that area but were not able to locate her body due to the thickness of the brambles. if it was possible to go through it, albeit slowly, the police would not have gone to all that trouble of cutting down the brambles and draining that area of the marsh. if the police couldn't even go through the area and locate her body without having to use equipment to cut down the brambles, how would it have been possible for a serial killer to have done so unless he's superman?

Asked why the remains eluded previous searchers, he said, "That area was not searched as thoroughly as we searched it [this time] with the machines that we had in there, cutting down the brambles and the brush."

Investigators had to cut away the brush in the dense-growth area and remove water from a nearby marsh to locate the remains. Dormer described the area as a "very, very tough, desolate, tangled mess" and said "there is no way Shannan Gilbert could have made it through that mess to get to the parkway."

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/cops-remains-likely-those-of-shannan-gilbert-1.3385742

 

[Sillybilly]

... Finally, it has been speculated (even by myself) that a tip of some sorts came in this week to alert the investigators as to exactly where to look for her body. But now that I think about it, finding SG's remains was actually very simple once her belongings were located. All the investigators had to do was draw a straight line from the point where SG was last seen to the point where her belongings were found and then simply continue at that same compass course heading. One thing I forgot about Ocean Parkway- lamp posts are far and few between. If SG was out there in those wetlands and it was still dark when she entered them, that lone light on the road less than a half mile away could have been what SG fixated upon to keep her bearings and heading towards the highway ...

<rsbm & bbm>

Seaslug ... I'd like to remind you that it was not speculation on our part or anyone else's part that a tip came in, it was investigators who said that information was received.

If Shannan was that irrational and running as erratically we are led to believe, what are the chances she would run in a totally straight line through all that muck and brambles. Almost too precise, isn't it?

On another note, I believe LE has said that Shannan may have been going toward the street light on OP ... I note there are other street lamps that would have been much closer than the one where the remains have been found. Dunno .. maybe they aren't visible from within the marsh.

 

[Sillybilly]

The searchers were in that area but were not able to locate her body due to the thickness of the brambles. if it was possible to go through it, albeit slowly, the police would not have gone to all that trouble of cutting down the brambles and draining that area of the marsh. if the police couldn't even go through the area and locate her body without having to use equipment to cut down the brambles, how would it have been possible for a serial killer to have done so unless he's superman?

<rsbm & bbm>

Could you please explain how you conclude that Shannan was able to get to that specific location, but a serial killer was not able to do so ?

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Sorry for jumping in the middle here, but have you guys discussed whether the SK contacted LE and that is what led to the discovery of SG's belongings and probably her remains? I have been swamped with RL issues, but tried to catch up over Thanksgiving. It was interesting to me that it was during the Thanksgiving break LE announced that they thought the bodies they had found were linked to a single serial killer. Why would they suddenly say this after having made statements that two, or possibly even three SK's were involved? And then, on 12/1/2011, it was announced that the search for SG would be reopened "based on new information received yesterday" (i.e. Wednesday, 11/30/2011). So.... LE got information that SG was probably dead, and a clue to where her remains could be found. Here we are 2 weeks latter, with her purse, jeans, lipstick (???!!!!), and possible remains. Sure sounds like the SK is tired of their incompetence and has decided to contact them and brag - or taunt.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/0...resume-search-for-missing-prostitute-shannan/

"[FONT=&quot]A police spokesman said investigators will reopen their search for 24-year-old Shannan Gilbert based on new information received Wednesday. He did not indicate when the search would begin.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] A Suffolk County police spokeswoman told Newsday that the department's detective division received new information indicating the "possibility" that Gilbert may be dead. The tip also indicated that her remains may be dumped along the highway, according to the newspaper."[/FONT]

Around that time, there was a torso found in a suitcase in Yonkers. The head, hands and feel were nowhere to be found. Does that sound familiar like the Manorville victims or is it just me? I think the sk left a message in that suitcase. The suitcase was discarded off the side of the road in that whoever put it there desired for it to be discovered. As you can see, there hasn't been any more mention of this case in the media but that doesn't mean that the sk has not struck again. By the way, the torso was of a man and I bet he was a male prostitute.

 

[Sillybilly]

Seaslug, in your post at http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...575</STRONG>&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13238594293241

you mention about the remains being found at the end of what appears to be an established trail. Can't locate your pics of where the personal effects were located, but am I correct that they also were found near the end of the trail that comes in off Anchor Way?

 

[Sillybilly]

From Sistah's post above:

"A police spokesman said investigators will reopen their search for 24-year-old Shannan Gilbert based on new information received Wednesday. He did not indicate when the search would begin. A Suffolk County police spokeswoman told Newsday that the department's detective division received new information indicating the "possibility" that Gilbert may be dead. The tip also indicated that her remains may be dumped along the highway, according to the newspaper."<rsbm & bbm>

The remains were in fact located very close to the highway, as per the tipster's information. WHO knows this stuff when a girl has been missing for 20 months and supposedly nobody knows what happened?

 

[stillwatersc]

<rsbm & bbm>
If Shannan was that irrational and running as erratically we are led to believe, what are the chances she would run in a totally straight line through all that muck and brambles. Almost too precise, isn't it?

A straight line can always be drawn from point A to point B - that doesn't mean that is the exact line she would have followed to get from A to B.

 

[stillwatersc]

After looking at SeaSlug's pictures (THANKS!) I don't think it is possible SG removed her jeans because of hyperthemia & was able to still travel that far a distance. From reading, a hyperthermia victim removes their clothes in the last stages. I question if the jeans found were the ones SG was wearing that night - or spares left in the vehicle. Also the phone could have been a personal one & not the same one SG was calling from. LE should be able to determine about the phone.

 

[stillwatersc]

<rsbm & bbm>

Could you please explain how you conclude that Shannan was able to get to that specific location, but a serial killer was not able to do so ?

I think the point is that a killer would have to be carrying or transporting SG's body somehow. She was rather tall - it would have taken a strong athlete unless there is some way to get very close to that location in a vehicle. The other remains were so close to the highway, they could have practically been rolled off a tailgate. The location of these remains would seemingly rule out a killer who was not a strong man - unless there is a trail that would have been driveable.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...und-her-case-led-police-to-long-island-bodies

Photo of police using metal detectors in the search.

 

[Reannan]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...und-her-case-led-police-to-long-island-bodies

Photo of police using metal detectors in the search.

I think it is the metal jaw that SG had which has allowed LE to be pretty sure the remains they just found are those of Shannon.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I think so too reannan. This is sooo sad. IF it is Shannan, she almost made it to the Pkwy.

I am still on the fence about how she ended up there til more info comes out. I may be wrong but it appears that SG was found on the direct opposite side of the Pkwy from where the first 4 bodies were found. Can someone set me straight on this?