trial thread: 3/21/2012

[matou]

Why did TLM admit to anything at all? She could have kept denying she had anything to do with the abduction and kept playing dumb. She didn't and admitted she was the one in the video abducting Tori. JMO

 

[swedie]

‏ @AM980_Court

• McClintic wrote her mom would be "straight up done in" as soon as she was let out of the detention centre.

Yep seems like she's all talk and not much action. And to use an officer's laptop. :floorlaugh: I know this is really not a funny case but it's apparent this poor child was suffering and was crying out for help. Another child failed by the system. Put her in detention, let her do her time with no or little counselling, let her out back into the loving arms of her momma. Actually maybe this was part of her counselling/homework; to write out her feelings.:what: :waitasec:There is therapy like that. I believe it's called something like "the unsent letter" IIRC from many moons ago. :moo:

 

[~n/t~]

Thanks so much to everyone who posted - I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to help, way over loaded at work lately. Just on page 3 here, but I did read the tweets by LFP for the day - seemed very few of them - and I'm wondering how the Crown did not ask how she got the items out of the trunk or when they were taken from the trunk. If that was asked and answered can anyone let me know?

Some of the unnecessary comments she made in her original interview they are watching, make me believe she was telling the truth then and Rafferty actually wielded the hammer. In either case I can't see a valid explanation. If she blamed him originally and he was guilty, why take the blame for him now? If she blamed him originally and he wasn't guilty, why change her story now? None of it makes sense. In the long run, I truly trust that they were both involved, both planned it, both committed this horror to sweet Tori and both need to suffer for it.
They should be allowed out of jail when Tori gets to walk down the aisle on her wedding day!

I think it's part of the interview but not sure. I'm waiting for the transcripts. When her nose blowing got louder than her voice, I gave up.

 

[~n/t~]

Why did TLM admit to anything at all? She could have kept denying she had anything to do with the abduction and kept playing dumb. She didn't and admitted she was the one in the video abducting Tori. JMO

She knew her goose was cooked. Tara and others recognized her and called in tips. It was just a matter of time. Or MR dumped her. One or the other.

 

[~n/t~]

And if she was really that much into belonging to a big time gang she wouldn't have been living in the big town of Woodstock, kwim. :floorlaugh: She was a street smart girl and would've hiked her gang banging hiney outta Woodstock and headed for TO or better yet South Central LA. I hope there are no Bloods housed in the Kitchener detention centre. She might want to watch her hiney.:what: :moo:

Woodstock = where everybody knows your name....errr coat.

 

[dilbert]

Woodstock isn't as small as some would lead others to believe, the population is at least 35,000, so it's more like, "Woodstock, where all the Oxy users know each others names".

 

[roseofsharon]

In the interview, every time TLM was asked a question that she wasn't quite sure of how to answer, she took a long pause, to formulate her response. She made very little eye contact with the detective.

Then, this little meek and mild whiny voice asked ... "Can I have a smoke"?

She is only big and bad up against a defenseless, innocent little child.

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[crazyladi]

I cant get past 4:46 on the video

 

[K.Scarpetta]

She knew her goose was cooked. Tara and others recognized her and called in tips. It was just a matter of time. Or MR dumped her. One or the other.

I vote for MR dumping her or getting another girlfriend.
She got angry and confessed and blamed MR, mildly vindictive?
But I still can not get the "good things are coming my way" statement made by MR hours before Tori was abducted.
I can see her trying to spin this to build up her reputation in jail - she knew she was caught, so she is trying to make it work for her. She figures she should take the rap and the infamy that goes with it.
Bottom line
People like TLM are not like you and I.
Neither is more evil than the other MR can just hide it better, perhaps a more politically correct version of TLM.
JMO

 

[dilbert]

I vote for MR dumping her or getting another girlfriend.
She got angry and confessed and blamed MR, mildly vindictive?
But I still can not get the "good things are coming my way" statement made by MR hours before Tori was abducted.
I can see her trying to spin this to build up her reputation in jail - she knew she was caught, so she is trying to make it work for her. She figures she should take the rap and the infamy that goes with it.
Bottom line
People like TLM are not like you and I.
Neither is more evil than the other MR can just hide it better, perhaps a more politically correct version of TLM.
JMO

re: bold

Maybe he was referring to the Percocets he was going to buy later that night.

MOO

 

[scapa]

I agree that the parading of TLM's letters and conduct in lockup feels OTT. I wonder whether her propensity for violence will be used by the defence to set her up her as the chief (and maybe only) aggressor straight down the line (quotation from Double Indemnity deliberate). Kinda like this:

* MR meets her, feels sorry for her
* They spend some time together, do drugs, drive around
* He listens to her rantings, decides she's not for him
* Then she calls him, they go for a drive, she asks him to stop in front of a school, it's a kid she knows, they may as well give her a lift
* Before he knows it, they're out of town, she asks to stop at the ATM and then HD, where she picks up a few things from home
* He doesn't get it, but she's raging, off her head, and suddenly she's attacking TS and he can't stop her
* The cleanup is her idea; he's in a state of shock
* He visits her to try to convince her to confess
* Blah blah blah

NOTE: I don't believe for a second that this is what happened, but positioning TLM as an unpredictable violent criminal with a yen to torture and kill and MR as her witless stooge seems like a reasonable -- hopefully doomed -- defence option. He didn't take her seriously -- until it was too late! as the tagline.

s

 

[K.Scarpetta]

re: bold

Maybe he was referring to the Percocets he was going to buy later that night.

MOO

Dilbert, you could be correct- valid point, he could be talking about anything.
I personally find it to coincidental, but I am also more of a pessimist.
I have yet to forget that phrase since the day I read it.........
JMO

 

[KMouse]

<snipped>
NOTE: I don't believe for a second that this is what happened, but positioning TLM as an unpredictable violent criminal with a yen to torture and kill and MR as her witless stooge seems like a reasonable -- hopefully doomed -- defence option. He didn't take her seriously -- until it was too late! as the tagline.

s

What next? MR comes into court with a coloring book and crayons?

 

[antiquegirl]

I vote for MR dumping her or getting another girlfriend.
She got angry and confessed and blamed MR, mildly vindictive?
But I still can not get the "good things are coming my way" statement made by MR hours before Tori was abducted.
I can see her trying to spin this to build up her reputation in jail - she knew she was caught, so she is trying to make it work for her. She figures she should take the rap and the infamy that goes with it.
Bottom line
People like TLM are not like you and I.
Neither is more evil than the other MR can just hide it better, perhaps a more politically correct version of TLM.
JMO

(BBM)

About that FB comment: I have to wonder if he wasn't referring to that drug buy of Percocets in Guelph. These Tweets make me think that he set that up just before he made that post.

Avery Moore&#8207;@AveryFreeFMNews
McC says #Rafferty showed up at her house looking for Oxy. Went to get drugs. Dropped her off at job centre. Said he was leaving town.

.James Armstrong&#8207;@jamesarmstrong7
After buying drugs #rafferty dropped her off at unemployment centre. Said he was going out of town and would see McClintic the next day

I think he had plans then to go to Guelph to see BA. Instead, according to TLM:

Adrian Morrow&#8207;@AdrianMorrow
When she arrived home, McClintic says, Rafferty was sitting in her driveway and inivted her to go to Guelph.

So, what happened between 2:19 p.m. and when TLM got home and found him in her driveway? When did he (if it was he) decide to take her along instead of seeing her the next day? And how does Tori fit into the picture?

I really hope that these statements are explored further later in the trial. Something is pretty fishy here.

JMO

 

[Salem]

Why did TLM admit to anything at all? She could have kept denying she had anything to do with the abduction and kept playing dumb. She didn't and admitted she was the one in the video abducting Tori. JMO

I think this is an interesting point.

TLM confessed and blamed the death on MR. She did an ASofF saying MR used the hammer. Based on this confession, she received a life sentence, which in Canada, appears to be 25 years with the possibility of parole fairly early on.

In the US - when you make a plea deal, you are supposed to be honest and if it is found out later that you were not honest, the prosecutor can motion the Court to take corrective action in the sentencing, by prolonging it where necessary. I don't think this is done often, but it is possible.

Does Canada have the same law? If TLM was thinking she was going to get parole in 10-15 years (or whatever) can the Crown now go to the court and ask that she not be eligible for the full 25 years because she lied and said she didn't kill Tori and now she says she did?

I also wonder if there was any contact between the 2 of them between TLM's 1st confession and the trial?

I tend to believe the 1st confession where she blames MR, but that is based mostly on the words and her demeanor she used when she recanted her story. Honestly, I'm on the fence over this one because I just don't understand why she is now contradicting what she said in the beginning.

Salem

 

[dilbert]

I think this is an interesting point.

TLM confessed and blamed the death on MR. She did an ASofF saying MR used the hammer. Based on this confession, she received a life sentence, which in Canada, appears to be 25 years with the possibility of parole fairly early on.

In the US - when you make a plea deal, you are supposed to be honest and if it is found out later that you were not honest, the prosecutor can motion the Court to take corrective action in the sentencing, by prolonging it where necessary. I don't think this is done often, but it is possible.

Does Canada have the same law? If TLM was thinking she was going to get parole in 10-15 years (or whatever) can the Crown now go to the court and ask that she not be eligible for the full 25 years because she lied and said she didn't kill Tori and now she says she did?

I also wonder if there was any contact between the 2 of them between TLM's 1st confession and the trial?

I tend to believe the 1st confession where she blames MR, but that is based mostly on the words and her demeanor she used when she recanted her story. Honestly, I'm on the fence over this one because I just don't understand why she is now contradicting what she said in the beginning.

Salem

We don't know that TLM said MR used the hammer at the plea hearing, that has never been released because of the partial publication ban that is still in place.

 

[~n/t~]

What next? MR comes into court with a coloring book and crayons?

That comment and your avatar just had me LOL!! Thanks needed it!

 

[swedie]

re: bold

Maybe he was referring to the Percocets he was going to buy later that night.

MOO

Oh had he made plans that morning to pick up Oxys? I thought he didn't call BA until the afternoon after they abducted Tori. That was the reason why MR put the battery back into his phone; to call BA to see if he could get Oxys. :waitasec:

 

[~n/t~]

I agree that the parading of TLM's letters and conduct in lockup feels OTT. I wonder whether her propensity for violence will be used by the defence to set her up her as the chief (and maybe only) aggressor straight down the line (quotation from Double Indemnity deliberate). Kinda like this:

* MR meets her, feels sorry for her
* They spend some time together, do drugs, drive around
* He listens to her rantings, decides she's not for him
* Then she calls him, they go for a drive, she asks him to stop in front of a school, it's a kid she knows, they may as well give her a lift
* Before he knows it, they're out of town, she asks to stop at the ATM and then HD, where she picks up a few things from home
* He doesn't get it, but she's raging, off her head, and suddenly she's attacking TS and he can't stop her
* The cleanup is her idea; he's in a state of shock
* He visits her to try to convince her to confess
* Blah blah blah

NOTE: I don't believe for a second that this is what happened, but positioning TLM as an unpredictable violent criminal with a yen to torture and kill and MR as her witless stooge seems like a reasonable -- hopefully doomed -- defence option. He didn't take her seriously -- until it was too late! as the tagline.

s

Good defense but I learned from following trials that when there is something horribly wrong and a child is in danger, normal people call 911. They don't stand around and watch and/or participate in the crime.

Didn't we hear testimony that he turned off his blackberry or something like that? Maybe that was in OS. Whatever the case may be, he had a cellphone. He could've easily dialled 911 and saved Tori's life but he didn't which to me implies that he was there, he participated and he enjoyed every evil disgusting second with his murderous accomplice. :moo:

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't believe that TLM didn't know TS and that she didn't know TS was TM's daughter.

IMO TS was targeted and I think TLM and CM were so angry at TM regarding the dog breeding talks falling through, and perhaps other things possibly, that she wanted to make TM squirm.

The truth is yet to be heard, if ever, but TLM possibly set MR up for segments of this crime, as payback to him for cheating.

Just speculation on my part and always MOO.