was Deb's brother there that night ?

[4Jacy]

If that's true, that's two different people, other than the parents, who lied to LE. PN and SB (surely she would have noticed PN still there for 4+ hours). I feel fairly confident that LE did not consider PN to be there all night in the early going in this case, due to their comments about him early on. That means to me the information given to them at that time (from interviews with parents/PN/SB) was that he was not there all night.

PN is not the only one to mention the drinking. What about Shane, the guy who visited the ladies for a period of time that night? He also said that although he didn't see them actually drinking, it was obvious that they had been?

BBM

I don't think he could have been there all night. SB and Shane would have told LE the truth about that I'm sure.

 

[hambirg]

BBM

I don't think he could have been there all night. SB and Shane would have told LE the truth about that I'm sure.

We don't know what SB and SB#2 have told LE. I'm not saying PN was necessarily there all night, just that we don't know what was told to LE.

 

[psychomarz]

I am more than aware of that. But no general practice Dr. should be taking that on. If somebody needs both of these, they need to be under a psych care.

Could DB have been put on one or the other (or a combination) for PPD?

I may get crap for this, but I'll go ahead and say it: I'll admit to drinking 2-3 glasses of wine several nights a week, even though I take anxiety medication (for an eating disorder relapse during my pregnancy, which I continue to take so that I can eat and exercise without freaking out). I have NEVER been plastered or blacked out-- even when I get a particularly good-tasting wine and end up drinking the whole damn bottle. At best, I get a cheerful tipsy goin on. And mind you, I'm 5'7" and a fit 160lbs (for those that don't know how alcohol works, the more fat you have on your body, the quicker it is absorbed-- so DB would get drunk faster than an average person, unless she had a big tolerance).

I couldn't believe DB when she said she passed out, and I still don't. If you drink even 2-3 times a week, you should know where your "limit" is.

Meaning she either INTENDED to drink herself into oblivion that night, or she does every night and saw nothing wrong with it

 

[highflyer]

BBM

I don't think he could have been there all night. SB and Shane would have told LE the truth about that I'm sure.

How could you possibly BE SURE SB and or Shane would of told the truth to LE? Do you personally know these people?

 

[4Jacy]

How could you possibly BE SURE SB and or Shane would of told the truth to LE? Do you personally know these people?

No, to both of your questions. However, I do not believe either of them were involved so why should they lie. So what if PN's car was there or not, it shouldn't matter to them. It matters to this case though and they are smart enough to know it, so I believe they told LE the truth.

On that note, I have been known to be wrong before....hoh:

 

[highflyer]

No, to both of your questions. However, I do not believe either of them were involved so why should they lie. So what if PN's car was there or not, it shouldn't matter to them. It matters to this case though and they are smart enough to know it, so I believe they told LE the truth.

On that note, I have been known to be wrong before....hoh:

But, we don't know that they were not involved, at least not that I am aware of. As convoluted as this mess is and without forensic information and LE doc dumps etc., it's wide open.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Could DB have been put on one or the other (or a combination) for PPD?

I may get crap for this, but I'll go ahead and say it: I'll admit to drinking 2-3 glasses of wine several nights a week, even though I take anxiety medication (for an eating disorder relapse during my pregnancy, which I continue to take so that I can eat and exercise without freaking out). I have NEVER been plastered or blacked out-- even when I get a particularly good-tasting wine and end up drinking the whole damn bottle. At best, I get a cheerful tipsy goin on. And mind you, I'm 5'7" and a fit 160lbs (for those that don't know how alcohol works, the more fat you have on your body, the quicker it is absorbed-- so DB would get drunk faster than an average person, unless she had a big tolerance).

I couldn't believe DB when she said she passed out, and I still don't. If you drink even 2-3 times a week, you should know where your "limit" is.

Meaning she either INTENDED to drink herself into oblivion that night, or she does every night and saw nothing wrong with it

Or, she used the drinking as an excuse for "not hearing anything" later that night.

 

[Whisperer]

And apparently he doesn't live on Waldron anymore. He gave the same Independence address listed for DB and Tony in their past records for a traffic ticket he received on 1/09/2012.

Makes me wonder if he ever lived there. Don't houses normally have a one year lease?

Yes. I checked out that property and it rents for approx. $950 per month.

No body cared to sleuth this, including P.I's. Pretty poor investigating. I was told it is normal there for a 20 yr old kid to rent a nice house in that area. RR said he wasn't interest in PN's address.

That house was furnished and large enough to take in two more adults and two children. Neither parent cared to live with their parents but chose to live with a 20 yr old during this crisis.

 

[Whisperer]

Can you prove that plastic was put there prior to the searches? You only saw the house after the searches. I'm sure your house wouldn't look immaculate after LE was done with it.

Following these cases, the owners clean up the place. They have word of when the media wants to tour and they gladly let them in because a nice paycheck comes with it.

Why only Lisa's room black garbage bagged? I think they were used to it being there or they would have removed it after LE left.

 

[Whisperer]

His vehicle is still at Walrond nearly every time I go past on Vivion Rd. You can see his house from Vivion. It was just there last week two days out of two days I went past. I would say he still lives on Walrond. He definately does not live on Lister as I only see his vehicle here only once in a great while.

Would you give us a description of the vehicle he drives?

 

[melissasmom]

Yes. I checked out that property and it rents for approx. $950 per month.

Of course no body cared to sleuth this, including P.I's. Pretty poor investigating. I was told it is normal there for a 20 yr old kid to rent a nice house in that area.

..I don't see it myself. Most teens don't want or can't afford the upkeep of a home. It was a nice property and had land that needed to be cared for. I find it odd that he rented that place on his own. I also find it odd that he had the room and the furnishings to accomodate two more adults and two children.

It needed to be investigated...

I stand by my conclusion that most young people WANT to live around other young people, most likely in an apartment environment. I say there is more to this rental than we know.

I am not sure why you find a young person owning a home so odd, unless all the young people you know are sheltered/immature/wanting to live with mommy and daddy until they are 30. I know or know of several young adults who have bought a home as opposed to renting. My sister bought her first house at 20. My brother-in-law bought his own home at 19. I can see if a young person (without inherited wealth)went out a bought a half million dollar house, you might wonder where they go the money, but it is just a modest house in a family-type neighborhood. Not odd at all. Maybe he doesnt want to throw away his money on rent. His mother passed away when he was very young (10 years old?). Possibly he had to mature faster than other kids normally would, so he is not your average young guy.

As for the furniture, well who knows what kind of furniture he even has? If you have a house, you don't want all the rooms sitting empty. He could have furnished it with stuff from yard sales, Goodwill, etc. Nothing wrong with having guest rooms for family/friends.

 

[Whisperer]

There doesn't seem to be good investigating reporting any more

 

[Whisperer]

I am not sure why you find a young person owning a home so odd, unless all the young people you know are sheltered/immature/wanting to live with mommy and daddy until they are 30. I know or know of several young adults who have bought a home as opposed to renting. My sister bought her first house at 20. My brother-in-law bought his own home at 19. I can see if a young person (without inherited wealth)went out a bought a half million dollar house, you might wonder where they go the money, but it is just a modest house in a family-type neighborhood. Not odd at all. Maybe he doesnt want to throw away his money on rent. His mother passed away when he was very young (10 years old?). Possibly he had to mature faster than other kids normally would, so he is not your average young guy.

As for the furniture, well who knows what kind of furniture he even has? If you have a house, you don't want all the rooms sitting empty. He could have furnished it with stuff from yard sales, Goodwill, etc. Nothing wrong with having guest rooms for family/friends.

Well, even if a home is a mere $200,000, that requries $40,000 down. I don't care to get into a discussion about the joys of teens and young adults who are way ahead in the midwest, more mature, can afford and choose to buy a house on their own. I say that would be the exception and not the rule.

I guess we have Phil Netz as the exception...

 

[melissasmom]

There doesn't seem to be good investigating reporting any more

THAT I agree with. In this internet/instant gratification era, no one wants to take the time to do anything properly. It is about get the info NOW as opposed to getting the info CORRECT.

 

[melissasmom]

]Good for you[/B], glad to know there are plenty of teens and young adults who have LARGE amounts of money for a down payment. Glad to hear that single teens and 20 yr old want to take care of property and/or pay for gardening. Pay water, sewer bills also.

In places where I have lived, it has required a HUGE amount of money to buy a home. That house on Walrond was more expensive than the Lister house.

Rudeness is not necessary, but I put my big girl pants on today, so I can deal with it.
you do not always have to have a HUGE down payment to buy a home. There are FHA loans, HUD, etc., etc. etc.
YES, some young people DO have the maturity to think that home ownership is a good thing, not a burden. Many teens/young adults may be thinking more about having a good time/being with friends, but MANY are more mature than that.

 

[Whisperer]

I am not sure why you find a young person owning a home so odd, unless all the young people you know are sheltered/immature/wanting to live with mommy and daddy until they are 30. I know or know of several young adults who have bought a home as opposed to renting. My sister bought her first house at 20. My brother-in-law bought his own home at 19. I can see if a young person (without inherited wealth)went out a bought a half million dollar house, you might wonder where they go the money, but it is just a modest house in a family-type neighborhood. Not odd at all. Maybe he doesnt want to throw away his money on rent. His mother passed away when he was very young (10 years old?). Possibly he had to mature faster than other kids normally would, so he is not your average young guy.

As for the furniture, well who knows what kind of furniture he even has? If you have a house, you don't want all the rooms sitting empty. He could have furnished it with stuff from yard sales, Goodwill, etc. Nothing wrong with having guest rooms for family/friends.

never said anything was wrong with supplying guest rooms in your home. But this is a young single 20 yr old guy...

 

[Whisperer]

Rudeness is not necessary, but I put my big girl pants on today, so I can deal with it.
you do not always have to have a HUGE down payment to buy a home. There are FHA loans, HUD, etc., etc. etc.
YES, some young people DO have the maturity to think that home ownership is a good thing, not a burden. Many teens/young adults may be thinking more about having a good time/being with friends, but MANY are more mature than that.

:what:

 

[melissasmom]

Well, even if a home is a mere $200,000, that requries $40,000 down. I don't care to get into a discussion about the joys of teens and young adults who are way ahead in the midwest, more mature, can afford and choose to buy a house on their own. I say that would be the exception and not the rule.

I guess we have Phil Netz as the exception...

This figure is going based off your standard 20% down payment home purchase. If you get a loan through FHA or a VA program, or many of the first time home buyer programs available. Can be as little as 3% down.

Not really understanding why this is a debate. Young people can and do buy homes. Maybe just the area you live in or the people you know make it seem strange to you.

 

[4Jacy]

But, we don't know that they were not involved, at least not that I am aware of. As convoluted as this mess is and without forensic information and LE doc dumps etc., it's wide open.

Totally agree that they could have been involved. However, I feel that LE would have figured that out by now. SB and Shane do not have the bond that DB/JI have, nor, I don't think the motive, so to me that speaks volumns.

 

[highflyer]

Totally agree that they could have been involved. However, I feel that LE would have figured that out by now. SB and Shane do not have the bond that DB/JI have, nor, I don't think the motive, so to me that speaks volumns.

Don't know anything about Shane but SB is without family. Not that SB had anything to do with Lisa's disappearance but it would make it easier to conceal someone.