17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[gxm]

GZ was told by the police department spokeswoman at the NWP they were only to observe, not to follow and not to carry a gun. Everything except the gun is in that manual he received. I don't have a problem understanding what LE wanted GZ to do. GZ seems to be the one who wants to control the situation. Had the dispatcher known he had a gun he would have been ordered to wait for LE to arrive. That is not speculation this is LE's worst nightmare as is quite evident since GZ decided to take the matter into his own hands. jmo

Except he wasn't on NWP. He was going to the store. And he had a conceal permit. The problem with this case is there are no clear boundaries, legally no clear lines crossed. Everything that GZ did falls within the law. There are so many ifs, such as what if the dispatcher had ordered him to stay in his car. We can say he should have known better, or he should have done this, but in a court of law the defense will be able to read back the transcripts and there will be no order for GZ to stay in, or get back in, his car. GZ will be able to say he was trying to ascertain direction and where TM had fled to and there will not be any way to prove that he did not stop following TM (and was subsequently jumped as he headed back to his car). JMO, of course.

 

[Juliet10]

Took notes during Lawrence O'Donnell's show...found these things interesting...

Detective Serino told Lawrence O'Donnell that he is looking forward to the truth coming out, and feels good about the new investigators...cannot speak because of the department's rules. Recall Det. Serino is the original investigator who wanted homicide charges against Zimmerman.

Joe Oliver and Zimmerman only know each other socially...they worked together...Joe Oliver is not working currently, no one is paying him to go in the media though...

Oliver and Zimmerman spent time together at work, have been alone together pretty much only at work; other times were family gatherings. Never had discussions about Zimmerman's experiences with law enforcement, Joe Oliver was never told about the arrest in 2005, but learned about it later.

Lawrence O'Donnell say the cop Zimmerman assaulted says Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and started talking. He refused to leave or stop talking (?) Zimmerman pushed the officer after cursing him, and a short struggle ensued. Joe Oliver says George may have been drinking that night.

Joe Oliver knew Zimmerman since Zimmerman met his wife, Shellie. Shellie was likely aware of previous charges (and domestic violence), but Oliver was not.

He went through anger management (part of pre-trial diversion)--Zimmerman.

Zimmerman talked to Joe Oliver on Saturday, no lawyers present was not set up by lawyers. Conversation was necessary in order to publicly defend him. Joe Oliver says he had a turning point, but will not share what it was. Lawrence O'Donnel doesn't want to hear the "talking points" of Joe Oliver.

Joe Oliver says he has a "gut feeling" about what happened. It's instinctual, he's had it validated by info that has been leaked. If we weren't talking about George shooting Trayvon, we'd be talking about Trayvon shooting George..

George was not pursuing Trayvon with his gun drawn.


Joe Oliver says he hears goons and c*ons.


Zimmerman talked about his desire to be in law enforcement, Zimmerman was a criminal justice major, and he wanted to do police work and become a lawyer.


His relationship with George is not a "close friend" it is more of an older uncle, he's old enough to be Zimmerman's father...They've had general discussions. Never discussed neighborhood watch.


Law enforcement has not interviewed Joe Oliver, even though he had an "unprotected" conversation with Zimmerman.


Lawrence O'Donnell said Joe Oliver was saying wildly nutty things yesterday, and that Joe Oliver's role doesn't make sense.

I hope Zimmerman is never in any position of authority over people. The guy is a disaster.

sounds like a good show. i missed it.

 

[m00c0w]

Why are the contradictions of these two female witnesses that have injected themselves into the media spotlight constantly and consistently ignored?

They say he was on his knees, they say he was on his feet. They say they heard whining, not screaming, when everyone else involved heard screaming. They never heard the sounds of a struggle even though it was right outside their window. One of them saw someone in a white shirt, when no one else has said anything about a white shirt.

Their testimony makes absolutely no sense, and I'm not sure why this is not being questioned.

 

[Snick1946]

Two unrelated thoughts.

I wonder if anyone has considered running a voice analysis on the tape that had the screaming? That could conclusively nail that it was Trayvon that was pleading for help. Not likely he'd be doing that while beating the hell out of GZ??

I am getting the feeling that there is a lot more to GZ than many of us imagine. The PD is leaking stuff to assist his defense, his 'friend' is all over the TV saying he's given up working while defending this man he says is his friend then admits he doesn't known him all that well? Could GZ be some sort of protected informant? Something is real hinky with this whole Zimmerman thing.

 

[beach]

Again, he wasn't. Look in the police report. He had on a red jacket.

Dontcha think he had a shirt on UNDER the jacket?


And why is it everybody makes a huge deal about TM wearing a hoodie on a warm FL summer night, but not one word has been said about Zimmerman wearing the infamous red jacket?


Maybe it wasn't as warm as everybody is trying to make it out to be? Maybe they BOTH felt a chill in the air?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thankx for the notes HiHater!

Question:

(I know this might have already been answered, I just can't remember)
Does Oliver live in the complex too? I know he's friends with GZ - but did he live in the community as well - or just friends from work?

Seems from your notes about what Oliver said tonight, the next story is going to be Trayvon went for the gun and they fought over it. Man, really? If it went off in the middle of a struggle - then gunshot residue, fingerprints on the gun, etc. etc. so much forensics to either prove or disprove this scenerio.


JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

Two unrelated thoughts.

I wonder if anyone has considered running a voice analysis on the tape that had the screaming? That could conclusively nail that it was Trayvon that was pleading for help. Not likely he'd be doing that while beating the hell out of GZ??

I am getting the feeling that there is a lot more to GZ than many of us imagine. The PD is leaking stuff to assist his defense, his 'friend' is all over the TV saying he's given up working while defending this man he says is his friend then admits he doesn't known him all that well? Could GZ be some sort of protected informant? Something is real hinky with this whole Zimmerman thing.

There are a lot of things here that don't add up.

 

[mikeysmommom]

NWP is just that, a watch. They are not suppose to patrol. They do not perform the duties of a security system. Neighbor watch is a program not a position. They are never suppose to presume they are acting as a police officer. Read the manual. There is nothing in there that says you are anything but a private citizen asked to report suspicious behavior, that's it. All the residents were told the same thing. No one is more responsible than the other. Other than one person may be assigned to touch base with someone from LE about having an information meeting that was where his "duty" stopped. jmo

It makes no difference if he was part of NWP.IMO
He still had a right to keep his gun on him when going out of his house as a private citizen with permit to carry and conceal.What was he suppose to do go back and drop off his gun?

 

[Nore]

Hi, I am trying to catch up. I had a couple busy days with my pc. in the shop.
I have a hard time getting past the fact that Police told Z. not to pursue Trayvon. The victim was not armed and running from. I hope I have this all straight. Why was Z. straddling Trayvon after a shooting? Glad to be back...:what:

 

[francie]

Again, he wasn't. Look in the police report. He had on a red jacket.

Well, that's only if you believe the police, who collected no evidence at the scene. I just don't believe them, especially with their history of race probs. jmo.

 

[mikeysmommom]

There are a lot of things here that don't add up.

Horrible reporting is making a mess of anything that comes out IMO.

 

[jjenny]

Dontcha think he had a shirt on UNDER the jacket?


And why is it everybody makes a huge deal about TM wearing a hoodie on a warm FL summer night, but not one word has been said about Zimmerman wearing the infamous red jacket?


Maybe it wasn't as warm as everybody is trying to make it out to be? Maybe they BOTH felt a chill in the air?

What difference does it make what he had on under the jacket? This was a very short fight. Police showed up shortly after the shot. Zimmerman still had his red jacket on at that time.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

As to the question regarding why Trayvon was wearing a hoodie on 02/26/2012 is completely and totally irrelevant to what took place. First off, it was 61 degrees, it was rainy. Secondly, Trayvon is from Miami where it is significantly warmer than Sanford is. Perhaps he felt chilled. Again it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what happened. Last and certainly not least, it's of no relevance period unless you are Geraldo Rivera. Kids now days where Hoodies. It's not a crime and it doesn't give anyone the right to shoot and kill an unarmed child.


http://www.wunderground.com/history...ty=Sanford&req_state=FL&req_statename=Florida

~jmo~

Right and Zimmerman had a jacket on and he was just driving to the store.. It was chilly.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It makes no difference if he was part of NWP.IMO
He still had a right to keep his gun on him when going out of his house as a private citizen with permit to carry and conceal.What was he suppose to do go back and drop off his gun?

Lock it up in his car before he left.

 

[RANCH]

NWP is just that, a watch. They are not suppose to patrol. They do not perform the duties of a security system. Neighbor watch is a program not a position. They are never suppose to presume they are acting as a police officer. Read the manual. There is nothing in there that says you are anything but a private citizen asked to report suspicious behavior, that's it. All the residents were told the same thing. No one is more responsible than the other. Other than one person may be assigned to touch base with someone from LE about having an information meeting that was where his "duty" stopped. jmo

So when GZ got into his truck to go on an errand that night, it had noting to do with the NWP right?

He was acting under the laws that his CCW permit allowed when he took his gun with him.

And if he saw what he thought was a suspicious person, he could call that in to the police right?

And it was lawful for him to try and keep an eye on this person while the police where on the way right?

 

[New1]

I didn't at first, but the more i Learn from reading about this case, the more I tend to believe that TM attacked Zimmerman. That statement, "He's coming to check me out" tells me that GZ was not following TM at that time, since TM was coming toward GZ. Also the fact that GZ suffered a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. He had wet grass on his back which supports the eye witness' account that GZ was on his back and TM on top of him. TM was not a little kid as portrayed by the media picture. He was around 6 feet tall and did not look skinny to me. He was an athlete which means he probably was in pretty good physical condition to go along with his size. This is all my opinion only and could change as more information comes out like what was the trajectory of the bullet. That would show the position of both parties when the bullet was fired. Autopsy will show whether TM had any other injuries besides the gun shot wound. Things like this are what is going to tell the truthful story.

 

[m00c0w]

What difference does it make what he had on under the jacket? This was a very short fight. Police showed up pretty much almost immediately after the shot. Zimmerman still had his red jacket on at that time.

Unless the police made him have a red jacket so that he would be easily identifiable when they plant a witness that states the man in the red jacket was getting beat up by the kid.

I really want to see other reports of what everyone is wearing. Are there any other mentions in the 911 calls aside from the one with Zimmerman in the white shirt?

 

[jjenny]

Unless the police made him have a red jacket so that he would be easily identifiable when they plant a witness that states the man in the red jacket was getting beat up by the kid.

I really want to see other reports of what everyone is wearing. Are there any other mentions in the 911 call aside from the one with Zimmerman in the white shirt?

One caller thought the guy standing up was black. I think rather than coming up with all these conspiracy theories the most obvious is that it was dark and witness was mistaken.

 

[m00c0w]

One caller thought the guy standing up was black. I think rather than coming up with all these conspiracy theories the most obvious is that it was dark and witness was mistaken.

I'm just not sure why these two females have an entirely different account from everyone else that was involved.

 

[beach]

It makes no difference if he was part of NWP.IMO
He still had a right to keep his gun on him when going out of his house as a private citizen with permit to carry and conceal.What was he suppose to do go back and drop off his gun?

And with that gun permit comes GREAT responsibility.


I am not saying he did not act responsibly....YET. My intent is simply to make that point. It should not be dismissed lightly.



I'm interested in the "rest of the story". Then and only then, can I make a fair judgment regarding his claim of self-defense.

Actually, I am still very open minded about this. There is so much spin, smoke and mirrors, it takes a while to weed out the few FACTS we know to date.