17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[Sensei]

I want to know how long George Zimmerman has had that gun and the permit to carry.

It would be interesting to know if he has had them for years, or if he just got them two or three months ago. It would not stop me from thinking that there should be a crime labelled criminal stupidity, and that he should be arrested for it, but maybe it would relieve my mind that it wasn't a shiny new gun, and new permit to carry and he was all adrenalin pumped to let everyone know he had them and USE it.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Lock it up in his car before he left.

It is never wise to leave a loaded gun in a vehicle it was in a holster.Esp where there have been robberies,JMO

 

[vlpate]

Took notes during Lawrence O'Donnell's show...found these things interesting...

Detective Serino told Lawrence O'Donnell that he is looking forward to the truth coming out, and feels good about the new investigators...cannot speak because of the department's rules. Recall Det. Serino is the original investigator who wanted homicide charges against Zimmerman.

Joe Oliver and Zimmerman only know each other socially...they worked together...Joe Oliver is not working currently, no one is paying him to go in the media though...

Oliver and Zimmerman spent time together at work, have been alone together pretty much only at work; other times were family gatherings. Never had discussions about Zimmerman's experiences with law enforcement, Joe Oliver was never told about the arrest in 2005, but learned about it later.

Lawrence O'Donnell say the cop Zimmerman assaulted says Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and started talking. He refused to leave or stop talking (?) Zimmerman pushed the officer after cursing him, and a short struggle ensued. Joe Oliver says George may have been drinking that night.

Joe Oliver knew Zimmerman since Zimmerman met his wife, Shellie. Shellie was likely aware of previous charges (and domestic violence), but Oliver was not.

He went through anger management (part of pre-trial diversion)--Zimmerman.

Zimmerman talked to Joe Oliver on Saturday, no lawyers present was not set up by lawyers. Conversation was necessary in order to publicly defend him. Joe Oliver says he had a turning point, but will not share what it was. Lawrence O'Donnel doesn't want to hear the "talking points" of Joe Oliver.

Joe Oliver says he has a "gut feeling" about what happened. It's instinctual, he's had it validated by info that has been leaked. If we weren't talking about George shooting Trayvon, we'd be talking about Trayvon shooting George..

George was not pursuing Trayvon with his gun drawn.


Joe Oliver says he hears goons and c*ons.


Zimmerman talked about his desire to be in law enforcement, Zimmerman was a criminal justice major, and he wanted to do police work and become a lawyer.


His relationship with George is not a "close friend" it is more of an older uncle, he's old enough to be Zimmerman's father...They've had general discussions. Never discussed neighborhood watch.


Law enforcement has not interviewed Joe Oliver, even though he had an "unprotected" conversation with Zimmerman.


Lawrence O'Donnell said Joe Oliver was saying wildly nutty things yesterday, and that Joe Oliver's role doesn't make sense.

You saw Joe Oliver say this on the show? Do you have a video, transcript? I know things are easily misunderstood when these shows are moving so fast. Until I see it, I won't believe he said this. TIA

 

[bessie]

The police report states Zimmerman was wearing a "wet" red jacket.

"I asked the subject in the red jacket later identified as George Zimmerman...

I could observe that his back was wet and covered in grass..."

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

 

[gxm]

I didn't at first, but the more i Learn from reading about this case, the more I tend to believe that TM attacked Zimmerman. That statement, "He's coming to check me out" tells me that GZ was not following TM at that time, since TM was coming toward GZ. Also the fact that GZ suffered a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. He had wet grass on his back which supports the eye witness' account that GZ was on his back and TM on top of him. TM was not a little kid as portrayed by the media picture. He was around 6 feet tall and did not look skinny to me. He was an athlete which means he probably was in pretty good physical condition to go along with his size. This is all my opinion only and could change as more information comes out like what was the trajectory of the bullet. That would show the position of both parties when the bullet was fired. Autopsy will show whether TM had any other injuries besides the gun shot wound. Things like this are what is going to tell the truthful story.

Me too. I came to this case convinced that GZ was a crazed vigilante who intentionally instigated the confrontation. But with facts as they are, I no longer believe that. Neither do I place any blame on the victim, TM. I think it was a tragedy that fell together like dominoes. TM and GZ both misread each other. Sadly, GZ was armed.

Unless new facts come to light, such as bullet trajectory, I can't see that, legally, there's much of a case. And I fear that we will never know the truth.

 

[m00c0w]

You saw Joe Oliver say this on the show? Do you have a video, transcript? I know things are easily misunderstood when these shows are moving so fast. Until I see it, I won't believe he said this. TIA

He was probably trying to play both sides of the fence, to be honest. "When I hear it, I don't know what he said. I hear both c**ns and goons." - Not an actual quote. Just an example of what I mean. JMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

Two unrelated thoughts.

I wonder if anyone has considered running a voice analysis on the tape that had the screaming? That could conclusively nail that it was Trayvon that was pleading for help. Not likely he'd be doing that while beating the hell out of GZ??

I am getting the feeling that there is a lot more to GZ than many of us imagine. The PD is leaking stuff to assist his defense, his 'friend' is all over the TV saying he's given up working while defending this man he says is his friend then admits he doesn't known him all that well? Could GZ be some sort of protected informant? Something is real hinky with this whole Zimmerman thing.

Many people are politically invested in this case. The police have every incentive to do everything in their power to alter public perception of their unbelievably poor performance, and that obviously requires altering public perception of both the victim and the perp. In this quest they have a LOT of support from some very powerful voices on the right.

 

[mikeysmommom]

And with that gun permit comes GREAT responsibility.


I am not saying he did not act responsibly....YET. My intent is simply to make that point. It should not be dismissed lightly.



I'm interested in the "rest of the story". Then and only then, can I make a fair judgment regarding his claim of self-defense.

Actually, I am still very open minded about this. There is so much spin, smoke and mirrors, it takes a while to weed out the few FACTS we know to date.

I agree We do need more info and soon IMO.Plus media is giving me a huge headache so much mis information.

 

[T4Tide]

To the testimony of both GZ and TM, 60 degrees, to those of us who live in warmer climates, can be very cool, especially when rainy/sunless. It was a gorgeous 87 degrees here today, and when I stepped outside after dark and it was 65, I felt chilly. I would need a long sleeve or jacket to stay out there long.

 

[RANCH]

And with that gun permit comes GREAT responsibility.


I am not saying he did not act responsibly....YET. My intent is simply to make that point. It should not be dismissed lightly.



I'm interested in the "rest of the story". Then and only then, can I make a fair judgment regarding his claim of self-defense.

Actually, I am still very open minded about this. There is so much spin, smoke and mirrors, it takes a while to weed out the few FACTS we know to date.

If you haven't read RHornbys blog on this case you should. It helped me understand the law much better.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

 

[Sensei]

He was probably trying to play both sides of the fence, to be honest. "When I hear it, I don't know what he said. I hear both c**ns and goons." - Not an actual quote. Just an example of what I mean. JMO

Well I don't consider either of those a term of endearment. It may be legal for him to say it (either one, although one is far more highly offensive than the other) but it certainly does say something to his mindset, when he gets out of his truck to pursue TM. and doesn't do him any favors IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[francie]

Why do you feel they took no crime scene photos, and didn't look for tissue on the sidewalk? I'd like to see some evidence of this. The article that's stated they've collected his clothing has been posted here multiple times. They didn't conduct a blood test because you have to have probable cause to compel someone to undergo an invasive medical procedure. They also took him to the police station and conducted a videotaped interview.

How did police not have probable cause? He shot an unarmed teenager! I don't believe they investigated as they were supposed to because it was a dead black teenager and a white adult shooter; SPD had probs with race issues so I am drawing that conclusion. jmo

If they took evidence that night I think they'd release it to make themselves not look so incompetent rather than leak GZ's statement... to me facts from investigation are more reliable than the shooter's unsubstantiated statement, jmo.

 

[gxm]

One caller thought the guy standing up was black. I think rather than coming up with all these conspiracy theories the most obvious is that it was dark and witness was mistaken.

IMO, much of this tragedy stems from the fact that it was dark and rainy and visibility was quite likely poor.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Well, that's only if you believe the police, who collected no evidence at the scene. I just don't believe them, especially with their history of race probs. jmo.

911 callers also said this not just police.

 

[vlpate]

Dontcha think he had a shirt on UNDER the jacket?


And why is it everybody makes a huge deal about TM wearing a hoodie on a warm FL summer night, but not one word has been said about Zimmerman wearing the infamous red jacket?


Maybe it wasn't as warm as everybody is trying to make it out to be? Maybe they BOTH felt a chill in the air?

BEM: I've seen no remarks but defensive ones about the hoodie. Zimmerman said he was wearing a hoodie, jeans or sweat pants, and white tennis shoes.

I've seen NO ONE here say it was the fault of the hoodie, just that it wasn't :waitasec:

Of course, who can keep up?

 

[Emeralgem]

You saw Joe Oliver say this on the show? Do you have a video, transcript? I know things are easily misunderstood when these shows are moving so fast. Until I see it, I won't believe he said this. TIA

I heard him say it on NG tonight... NG aired tonight at 8:00 pm and then again at 10:00 pm EST..

 

[m00c0w]

How did police not have probable cause? He shot an unarmed teenager! I don't believe they investigated as they were supposed to because it was a dead black teenager and a white adult shooter; SPD had probs with race issues so I am drawing that conclusion. jmo

If they took evidence that night I think they'd release it to make themselves not look so incompetent rather than leak GZ's statement... to me facts from investigation are more reliable than the shooter's unsubstantiated statement, jmo.

How often do police release evidence in active investigations, especially before a grand jury is even convened?

 

[francie]

Sounds like after the shot,TM in white shirt who was on top fell over like 911 witness said.GM might have straddled him maybe he tried to see if he had pulse?maybe in shock checking neck for a pulse. realized he was gone then was standing pacing like in shock then yelled call cops JMO as the 911 calls seemed to play out when I heard them.

How did Trayvon remove his hoodie, get shot & die then put the hoodie back on, when Zimmerman was seen sitting on his back?? :waitasec:

 

[SuziQ]

I flat out do not care that Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ if that is what happened.

My question is if some random person illegally tries to detain you or assault you and you get the best of them or try to, do they have the right to shoot you and claim self defense?

If the current law allows this, wow, I fear for child and DV victims everywhere.

 

[gxm]

Well I don't consider either of those a term of endearment. It may be legal for him to say it (either one, although one is far more highly offensive than the other) but it certainly does say something to his mindset, when he gets out of his truck to pursue TM. and doesn't do him any favors IMO JMHO and stuff

I agree. But from what I understand it's very garbled. Many people think it sounds like he says "f'ing phones" as if he is exasperated with his phone. If this case goes to trial, you just know they'll be one expert who says one thing and another that says something else. ("I am not a chemist" will be replaced by "I am not an audiologist.")