17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

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Obviously.

All of that carrying a gun and observing stuff is essentially legal. It becomes illegal when you ignore police instructions, creep and stalk after an unarmed juvenile, and then gun them down.

I find it amazing how the same people who give the shooter every benefit of the doubt, ever possible invented excuse, do not extend even a fraction of the same courtesy to the dead kid. Why?

The kid's crime was being black, wearing his hood up (in the rain, apparently), and possibly... POSSIBLY.. defending himself from a much larger man who he had every reason to believe was dangerous. And it turns out he was correct, GZ was not just dangerous, he was a killer.

No, he did not ignore police instructions. The dispatchers are civilians. More careless misinformation stated as fact. There are witnesses and a police report that supports GZs account of events and he did sustain injuries. GZ was defending himself imo and was pushed to do something horrible yet necessary when TM escalated the situation.
 
Well police show up and Zimmerman is still in his jacket, and his jacket is wet on its back, which clearly suggests Zimmerman was in his jacket all alone.

Except that someone saw him in a white t-shirt without a jacket. He was alive, Trayvon was not, GZ easily could've put on a jacket that he'd taken off to fight. jmo.
 
Except that someone saw him in a white t-shirt without a jacket. He was alive, Trayvon was not, GZ easily could've put on a jacket that he'd taken off to fight. jmo.
There's witness testimony that puts Zimmerman pinned underneath Martin, in a red jacket.
 
Except that someone saw him in a white t-shirt without a jacket. He was alive, Trayvon was not, GZ easily could've put on a jacket that he'd taken off to fight. jmo.

Nobody saw him in a white t-shirt without a jacket.
 
It was a report from the school, but the family said they never knew about the jewelry and screwdriver specifically. They confirmed everything else.

Do you have a link to that report? I haven't read it yet & have no idea where to look, thanks. :)
 
I want to know how long George Zimmerman has had that gun and the permit to carry.

It would be interesting to know if he has had them for years, or if he just got them two or three months ago. It would not stop me from thinking that there should be a crime labelled criminal stupidity, and that he should be arrested for it, but maybe it would relieve my mind that it wasn't a shiny new gun, and new permit to carry and he was all adrenalin pumped to let everyone know he had them and USE it.

As Gung-ho as he was about becoming a cop, suspect he was also obsessed with guns. And I would assume he had it for a bit and regularly went to a shooting range. He even loaded an extra bullet in chamber since he still had a full ammo clip after that one shot. JMO
 
I haven't heard Mary C. say anything about a white t-shirt. I don't believe she described what Zimmerman was wearing.
 
As Gung-ho as he was about becoming a cop, suspect he was also obsessed with guns. And I would assume he had it for a bit and regularly went to a shooting range. He even loaded an extra bullet in chamber since he still had a full ammo clip after that one shot. JMO
BBM

This doesn't mean anything and is a common practice.
 
I snipped this to only include the relevant point...

No one has ever implied anything about "taking anyone's word". The are still responsible for conducting a thorough investigation, and arresting anyone they have probable cause to suspect of an unlawful use of force. The only thing this has changed is that the police have the burden of proof of producing probable cause to believe that the shooting was unlawful, where before a person could simply be arrested even if it was the most clear-cut case of self defense in the world.

It is my belief that there is absolutely no reason to treat a victim of a violent crime like a common criminal. They did not ask for that to be thrust upon them, and to suggest they spend even one night in jail because they had to defend themselves is too much. No, murder should not be taken leniently, and this law does not advocate it to be taken in such a way. This law protects victims of violent crime.

You mention that the defense of habitation is the only place this law should apply, in your opinion. Why is that? Someone's house is probably the best place to commit a murder if you're going to. You have control of every single variable around. There are no witnesses if you don't want there to be. Laws can be abused, but the point is that you don't victimize the victim any more than necessary. All of the physical evidence is still present, an investigation is still conducted. The only difference is that the person that had to defend their life is not put in handcuffs and forced to do a perp walk and spend time behind bars because they were the prey.

Police can choose what they investigate and what they don't, and this law has no impact on when a department or investigating officers want to conduct a shoddy investigation for whatever reason. It's occurred before the law, and it will occur after. That is not the fault of the law, that is the fault of corrupt humans.

BBM

The law also protects murderers too. If your the victim of a crime and manage to kill your attacker before they kill you then a night in jail is worth the rest of your life.

How many innocent people's deaths are worth one victims night in jail and perp walk?

My answer, none.

I stand by my previous comment that we aren't capable of policing ourselves and that the SPD couldn't even figure out how to use a cell phone recovered at the scene to get evidence, and they're trained cops. The average American isn't as smart as most of the people on this board. I'd much rather leave it up to trained professionals. If GZ had been arrested and then held until they could identify the victim the cops would have had a lot more to go on than just his word. I know you didn't say anything about taking his word but that's what the cops did in this situation isn't it?

Think of it this way. Can you drive down your street at a reasonable speed to ensure everyone's safety without being told? I think most people on this board could. However, not everyone can and so I'm forced to watch my speed in situations where 80mph would be safe and keep it to 55. Laws aren't made with the smartest in mind. They're made with the dimmest in mind. Should anyone need to be told not to molest a child? Yet there are laws about it because people do. The stand your ground law is too dangerous for the lowest common denominator to wield.

People who were thrown out of the PA are now allowed to make decisions about life and death on their own. JMO
 
Lets look at the fatal event and go backwards. I've been giving lots of thoughts to Trayvon's GF's account. I don't think her statement will be allowed at trial. I think it will be hearsay or severely limited. We know Trayvon ran and there is no evidence he ran due to criminal activity. So we go backwards. The last I can determine is that according to GZ's words to 911 "they always get away" and "effing g****or c**** and he leaves his vehicle. We do not know and probably will never know what happened between then and the fatal shot. So how is it going to be determined who was the true aggresor and the true victim that initiated the final incident?


Simple! The aggressive one is the one who got out of his truck while packing a gun and goes to look for the black kid walking...How..just how could TM be the aggressive one? He was doing what he'd been doing the entire time..walking while black..GZ is the one who changed the scene from a driver observing someone to a man shooting someone. ^i^
 
The gun did not cycle after being fired which could point to a struggle and with Tray fighting for his life.

There may be another explanation why the gun was found with the chamber empty and the magazine full.

GZ may always loaded a round into the chamber of his gun and kept the magazine full. When he fired the fatal shot the gun could have worked as designed, cycled and loaded a round from the magazine.

GZ knowing that LE was coming decided to make his gun safe and ejected the magazine, pulled the slide back slowly and removed the live round from the chamber. He then took that live round and put it into the magazine. Now we have a full magazine again. And an empty chamber.

Ballistic tests will show if that round of ammunition was cycled thru the gun from marks that the ejector would leave on the case. JMO
 
There's witness testimony that puts Zimmerman pinned underneath Martin, in a red jacket.

And there's also witness testimony that puts GZ in white t-shirt laying on Trayvon wearing hoodie. jmo.
 
BEM: I've seen no remarks but defensive ones about the hoodie. Zimmerman said he was wearing a hoodie, jeans or sweat pants, and white tennis shoes.

I've seen NO ONE here say it was the fault of the hoodie, just that it wasn't :waitasec:

Of course, who can keep up?

It was a combination of black, young and hoodie. In that order of weight factor.
Besides we are not budding Geraldo's :floorlaugh:
 
I'd be very interested to read the affidavit filed by the lead homicide investigator who wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

According to "sources", the affidavit recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but state attorney Norman Wolfinger overruled the charges because "there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction."

The state attorney's office refused comment.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3KJSdWibbh

He was interviewed after that night, something may have changed?:
"In at least three police interrogations and a videotaped interview, Zimmerman told police he was on his way back to his truck when he was approached from behind by Trayvon, Lee said. Zimmerman said Trayvon attacked him. In fear for his life, Zimmerman said, he reached for the Kel Tek 9mm semi-automatic handgun he kept in a holster on his waist and fired."

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/21/3505774/commission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy
 
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