17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[iluvmua]

Ok, So If TM first hit GZ then under the SYG law if he felt his life was in danger or anything he would be able to shoot him?

I'm confused

 

[octobermoon]

:seeya: octobermoon :blowkiss:

Tulessa,
I can't even imagine how much your heart feels. God bless. No words.

 

[TonyGatto]

IF IF IF Trayvons phone did hold any evidence at all.
DO you think the police would not have arrested?
I don’t. I pray NOT!

I think that it looked like it was a scuffle and they were too darn lazy.

According to the family attorney, police had no interest in even looking at the phone.

 

[Elley Mae]

Now I will go and find tape of GZ and see if I can see gun powder residue.

If you can and have the time watch the ultimate fighters in the cage for 1 minute and see the struggle and just how long 1 minute really is.

 

[gxm]

And I think it is totally appropriate for him to be charged with manslaughter and have to prove that it was self defense,and not a case of negligent manslaughter.

But it really bothers me that people are painting this as a brutal racist cold blooded killer. That is totally unwarranted and only furthers the racial divide, imo.

I agree. GZ should be charged. My fear is that there is no evidence to convict him with and that's the reason he wasn't charged. My fear is also that the final outcome will not satisfy anyone. My fear is that we'll have a lot of angry people and no revisions to the SYG gun laws that are allowing people (perhaps, but not necessarily GZ) to claim self defense when it was not warranted.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[w1df10wr]

We do know the phone made its way into the lawyer Crump's hands. It was the family and their attorneys that unlocked it and figured out and diagrammed the last calls. There is no evidence that the police did anything in way of checking the phone. Apparantly they just gave it to the family. Had they tried to get the contents of the phone -- which you would think they would do in a homicide investigation -- they would have at least figured out who TM was talking to in the minutes before he was killed.

RBBM - Is there a link for that, please? Because the last article I read said the family didn't get the phone back and got TM's call log, from the carrier online.

Thank you!

 

[songline]

I think they were fighting over the gun and it became a case of
IT IS YOU OR ME And I am not going. :twocents:

 

[gxm]

Are people really calling this a brutal racist cold blooded killing? I mean anyone of note? Of course there are wackos on either side -- but who is calling him a cold-blooded killer? And GZ does not have to be a racist to be a racial profiler. What the family is saying is they want justice, they want an investigation, an arrest -- let a jury decide.

And where are they going to find this jury? Do you really believe that GZ can get a fair trail, presumed innocent until proven otherwise? He has already been tried and found guilty of a racial hate crime by a significant portion of Americans (and around the globe).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[JBean]

IMO, the connection comes when people decide it is not worthwhile to get involved.They see something suspicious but it's not their problem. Maybe it is nothing....maybe it's just minor vandalism...maybe it's the prelude to a rape. How do we know?
IMO it comes into play in this discussion because sometimes over-zealous watchfulness is the price we pay for neighborhood VOLUNTEERS trying to keep the area safe. I'm not condoning or even discusing the shooting here...just the criticisms of GZ's "watchfulness." If I were living alone in that neighborhood and there had been breakins...I might consider him someone TOO involved, but I would have slept better for it.

People get fed up with crime.In addition to being afraid, they are tired of losing things they worked hard for. Do they value the neighbor who just decides to be blind to everything...do they hate the over zealous Watcher? I think many would be grateful to such a volunteer even if they thought he was a bit over the top.

Unfortunately the only information we can confirm are GZ's own words on the 911 call-he saw a kid walking around and looking around and that something was not right with him.
What we don't know is if what he saw is what any of us may see. What did he use as the basis of his judgment? What is the yardstick for suspicious behavior that he uses?Judging him (which we must also do in this case) or using his own previous police calls as our yardstick it may be reasonable to see the picture being painted of a man that MAY see innocent things as a potential problems, when they really are not. he is watching for things, IMO, that may or may not be there in an effort to keep order in the community. While I applaud his basic intention of keeping things safe in his community-this is a case in point where sometimes that very intervention and swinging the pendulum to the other extreme of reporting everything can have devastating consequences when not handled by the proper authorities.

the irony is that it is his own watchfulness and almost paranoid behavior (IMO)ultimately caused order to be disturbed in a major way. I would rather that 5 houses were robbed than one Trayvon Martin were killed.

It may be his duty to report what he deems to be suspicious behavior but it is not his duty to try and stop it. he should have called, reported and gotten in his car and gone home.

 

[annalia]

I don't know that for sure. Do you?

What do you think TM's goal was for taking off running if not to go home or get away from GZ?

And where is it even coming from that Trayvon ran all the way home??

Even his girlfriend said that isn't what happened.

She said that Trayvon said he would walk fast after he saw GZ behind him again. She also said that at one point Trayon thought he had lost him, logic would dictate that he felt that he may be safe and decided to walk again.

I've never seen it said anywhere that Trayon ran the entire time all the way back home.

JMHO

 

[songline]

According to the family attorney, police had no interest in even looking at the phone.

Interesting...
This police is really no police at all.

 

[iluvmua]

Are people really calling this a brutal racist cold blooded killing? I mean anyone of note? Of course there are wackos on either side -- but who is calling him a cold-blooded killer? And GZ does not have to be a racist to be a racial profiler. What the family is saying is they want justice, they want an investigation, an arrest -- let a jury decide.

Then why did they say this:

Ben Crump, an attorney for Martin's parents, told the panel that the family was convinced Martin was targeted for special attention because of his race, arguing that tougher laws against profiling might have averted the shooting.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...mily-alleges-racial-profiling-before-congress

I don't think they want an investigation at all, I think they want GZ to be arrested immediately without an investigation.

 

[annalia]

And where are they going to find this jury? Do you really believe that GZ can get a fair trail, presumed innocent until proven otherwise? He has already been tried and found guilty of a racial hate crime by a significant portion of Americans (and around the globe).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

Casey Anthony

OJ Simpson

 

[Concerned Papa]

How far away was he from his house and if he was running how long would it take him to get to his house?

Hang on, you're about 5 minutes away from having that answer.

 

[LambChop]

Great post!!!:woohoo:

It the trial for your brother's death tomorrow???

 

[iluvmua]

According to the family attorney, police had no interest in even looking at the phone.

So does the Martin Family now have it?

 

[jjenny]

Unfortunately the only information we can confirm are GZ's own words on the 911 call-he saw a kid walking around and looking around and that something was not right with him.
What we don't know is if what he saw is what any of us may see. What did he use as the basis of his judgment? What is the yardstick for suspicious behavior that he uses?Judging him (which we must also do in this case) or using his own previous police calls as our yardstick it may be reasonable to see the picture being painted of a man that MAY see innocent things as a potential problems, when they really are not. he is watching for things, IMO, that may or may not be there in an effort to keep order in the community. While I applaud his basic intention of keeping things safe in his community-this is a case in point where sometimes that very intervention and swinging the pendulum to the other extreme of reporting everything can have devastating consequences when not handled by the proper authorities.

the irony is that it is his own watchfulness and almost paranoid behavior (IMO)ultimately caused order to be disturbed in a major way. I would rather that 5 houses were robbed than one Trayvon Martin were killed.

It may be his duty to report what he deems to be suspicious behavior but it is not his duty to try and stop it. he should have called, reported and gotten in his car and gone home.

It is not his job but people complain all the time that bystanders don't interfere when they see something. Of course Zimmerman was wrong and Trayvon was not involved in any crimes. But if a bystander was not wrong people wouldn't complain if that bystander got involved.

 

[octobermoon]

Right, that is not in dispute. But what made him pull the trigger at that moment? LE was on the way and he know that. And he was standing beside a dozen windows where people were home just feet away. So why after all of that noise and chaos and screaming and witnesses yelling at them from their apartments----WHY would he pull that trigger?

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that they were both fighting over control of the gun.

UMMM Trayvon didn't have a gun and George did? George was going for the gun and shot Trayvon dead?


I love you bunches Katydid, but a boy was shot dead by a man who had every means of escape. GZ did NOT need to follow this boy. He didn't. :truce:

 

[JBean]

I think they were fighting over the gun and it became a case of
IT IS YOU OR ME And I am not going. :twocents:

But songline we have to rewind farther than that. How and why was this situation created?
A private citizen arming himself and driving the neighborhood looking for criminal activity is most likely not going to have a good ending. Trayvon good or Trayvon bad makes no difference. THIS situation was created by George Zimmerman and that's the problem I have.

 

[gxm]

Casey Anthony

OJ Simpson

Exactly. I am worried that GZ will be hastily railroaded. And that, due to lack of substantial evidence, will be found NG.

Mob rule = justice for no one.

JMO, OMO, and :moo: