17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[Wise Old Owl]

But isn't "sizing someone up" the same as judging?

Like I said - you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

We all do it. GZ sized up or judged TM. And his first impression was wrong.

But GZ acted on that wrong first impression and he continued to make bad choices. I believe he should be held accountable and have the appropriate consequences for those bad choices.


JMHO

 

[Elley Mae]

I wish we could get at least an idea of how long LE was at the scene that night. We know GZ was taken to the station 35 minutes after the shooting. And we know that TM's dad was home 10:45 - 11:00 and said there was no sign of anything by then.

So, how long where they there? Residents would know - I bet even some of them stood out there and watched them. It does take some time for the CSI techs to take all the pictures and bag and tag the evidence. But really what evidence? Only thing on that partial police report taken into evidence was the gun.

Years ago - when we had a neighbor commit suicide - man, they were there for a good 4 - 5 hours. And what evidence would they have had to collect there as well? She used a gun and just sat down in a chair. I do know it did take a while for the ME to show up.

That's another thing - we haven't heard when the ME got there or anything. But the time frame we've been given just doesn't sit right with me. How could they have done all they need to do in that short of time?

And,

And,

Where is Trayvon's phone?




JMHO

There is a post I was just talking to hubby about and it was about Trayvon's possessions which were skittles, iced tea, $22, iiirc there was no mention of phone.

So what happened to TM's phone?

 

[vlpate]

I see your point, but how did he know for sure they didn't live there? He didn't think Trayvon belonged there either, but he did.

Aren't people who live there allowed to invite outsiders to a pool party? I've been to parties inside gated communities before but I certainly didn't live there.

In one of the older calls that I transcribed for the Media thread, he admitted he didn't know if someone lived there or not, but that his wife thought he was connected to a burglary. We don't know what happened when police got there. The person could have been completely innocent and just taking a walk. Looking around at cars is not a crime - everyone does it as they walk along.

My point is, how much of this is the perception of the Zimmermans, and how much is reality? Without knowing the outcome of the 911 calls, we are only getting their side of the story without any balance.

A man matching his exact description was arrested. It's in the police reports provided by LE and linked here many times.

As for the pool - if the people at the pool didn't live in the gated community, and they were not accompanied by homeowners in the gated community, they had no business being there. Some communities limit the number of guests allowed in their amenities, I don't know if this was the case or not. If they were children under a certain age, they would not be allowed at the pool without an adult homeowner, regardless of whether they lived there or not.

 

[songline]

I understand what you're saying, JBean. But just because GZ didn't recognize them doesn't mean they weren't invited to a birthday party or some such event by someone who did live in the complex. Just the other side of the coin...

ETA: It appears to me that GZ didn't report things that were 'suspicious' so much as he reported things he didn't personally approve of. That's just my opinion, of course.

Maybe GZ was a bit of a PITA..or just really anal
I would much rather have that then find out a child was raped, killed because
the people have a mind your own business mentality,
GZ had a full life, this was just being a good citizen, and something went out of control.
Until we find out more from an investigation all else to me is a lynching. MOO

 

[suzihawk]

His clothes had nothing to do with why LE was called. The reason LE was called is on the 911 call.

We have no way to know if Zimmerman intercepted Martin. Martin took off running and had plenty of time to get to his house if that was his goal.

Zimmerman has, a decent job, a wife, a car, and at 28, had not been in trouble with the law for seven years. By all accounts, a responsible citizen contributing to society and his neighborhood.

Trayvon had been in trouble for breaking zero-tolerance rules at school several times , and had just been suspended as a result of them, that day. Why is it out of the realm of possibility that he might have looked suspicious, looking for trouble, outside of school?

The entire incident, from beginning to end, lasted SEVEN minutes.

This is seen as me taking GZ's side. The above is not me taking anyone's side, the above are just the facts.

I don't know that for sure. Do you?

What do you think TM's goal was for taking off running if not to go home or get away from GZ?

 

[bessie]

That is true, but He had a right to size him up.
I sure would have.

IN real Estate many come to buy - I do not service them all I SIZE THEM UP.
Every profession knows how to size up people.
IMHO GZ sized him up correctly as someone to watch...
What happened past that WE DO NOT KNOW.

Based on what criteria?

 

[highflyer]

Do we know for a fact that GZ was stalking TM? Do we even know for a fact that GZ was following TM at the time of their physical contact?

A fact? No. From listening to the tapes and hearing GZ on the move from his truck and where the shooting happened it is a reasonable assumption. Am looking forward to a trial so that all facts may come out.

 

[songline]

But isn't "sizing someone up" the same as judging?

Like I said - you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

We all do it. GZ sized up or judged TM. And his first impression was wrong.

But GZ acted on that wrong first impression and he continued to make bad choices. I believe he should be held accountable and have the appropriate consequences for those bad choices.


JMHO

Watch man must size people up or they would never suspect anyone.
they would allow anything and everything and only call when it is much too late.

What are they supposed to watch for?
someone already running with a loot?
somene already grabbing a kid into a car?
I think that would be late.
They are there to prevent that from happening.
WHAT

 

[Wise Old Owl]

There is a post I was just talking to hubby about and it was about Trayvon's possessions which were skittles, iced tea, $22, iiirc there was no mention of phone.

So what happened to TM's phone?

And that right now is the $100,000. question. We have seen absolutely no confirmation of who or when or how Trayvon's was found, taken, returned, etc.

The physical location of Trayvon's phone is a complete mystery.

I've been wondering today that maybe during the course of the scuffle that maybe a button was pushed here or a picture taken there? IDK - maybe even the recording button was pushed and that's why the phone has been strangely un-talked about. IDK


JMHO

 

[w1df10wr]

His clothes had nothing to do with why LE was called. The reason LE was called is on the 911 call.

We have no way to know if Zimmerman intercepted Martin. Martin took off running and had plenty of time to get to his house if that was his goal.

Zimmerman has, a decent job, a wife, a car, and at 28, had not been in trouble with the law for seven years. By all accounts, a responsible citizen contributing to society and his neighborhood.

Trayvon had been in trouble for breaking zero-tolerance rules at school several times , and had just been suspended as a result of them, that day. Why is it out of the realm of possibility that he might have looked suspicious, looking for trouble, outside of school?

The entire incident, from beginning to end, lasted SEVEN minutes.

This is seen as me taking GZ's side. The above is not me taking anyone's side, the above are just the facts.

RBBM - I don't understand why it keeps being posted that TM "ran". GZ saying it on the 911 tape, doesn't make it the truth. It was dark out, perhaps TM walked faster and GZ took it as running?

 

[Elley Mae]

And that right now is the $100,000. question. We have seen absolutely no confirmation of who or when or how Trayvon's was found, taken, returned, etc.

The physical location of Trayvon's phone is a complete mystery.

I've been wondering today that maybe during the course of the scuffle that maybe a button was pushed here or a picture taken there? IDK - maybe even the recording button was pushed and that's why the phone has been strangely un-talked about. IDK


JMHO

When I saw that TM was originally listed as a John Doe I thought why wouldn't they have found out who he was from his phone.

 

[Emeralgem]

Trayvon Martin - Revisited

ON NOW... CNN

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Watch man must size people up or they would never suspect anyone.
they would allow anything and everything and only call when it is much too late.

What are they supposed to watch for?
someone already running with a loot?
somene already grabbing a kid into a car?
I think that would be late.
They are there to prevent that from happening.
WHAT

Well, if I was a NW person and I saw someone I thought was "suspicious" - I would continue to watch. Now if that person walked up into someone's yard or tried a vehicle's door handle or something that would lead me to believe he was going to commit a crime - then yea. But someone just walking? Nah, I would continue to watch and see what he was going to do.

The "someone snatching a kid in a car" - well that's the kinda thing you immediately call in - IMMEDIATELY. But as for property crime - nope, I would continue to watch.

If GZ had done that - we wouldn't be here today and Trayvon would be at home watching basketball.




JMHO

 

[songline]

Based on what criteria?

People tell you thing with every move they make.
After reading up on TM - I walked away thinking NO squeaky clean. NO HOW!
After reading up on GZ - I walked away thinking Overzealous.

When people go on an interview they are to make good impressions.
That is right we do get impression right away.

None of it means that it had to go the way it did.
BUT GZ had a right to watch him, and size him up.

we did not ordain the way it is happening after the fact.
Maybe the legal system needs an over hall but that is not happening

 

[songline]

Well, if I was a NW person and I saw someone I thought was "suspicious" - I would continue to watch. Now if that person walked up into someone's yard or tried a vehicle's door handle or something that would lead me to believe he was going to commit a crime - then yea. But someone just walking? Nah, I would continue to watch and see what he was going to do.

The "someone snatching a kid in a car" - well that's the kinda thing you immediately call in - IMMEDIATELY. But as for property crime - nope, I would continue to watch.

If GZ had done that - we wouldn't be here today and Trayvon would be at home watching basketball.




JMHO

MY point is once that kid is in a car it is too late,
A watchmen is to watch and call.
A watchmen should hopefully not wait till it s too late.

What really happened in those 2 minutes is what we do not know.

 

[JBean]

Maybe GZ was a bit of a PITA..or just really anal
I would much rather have that then find out a child was raped, killed because
the people have a mind your own business mentality,
GZ had a full life, this was just being a good citizen, and something went out of control.
Until we find out more from an investigation all else to me is a lynching. MOO

Now comparing Zimmerman's tendency to go overboard with 911 calls and people failing to call to report child rape or murder is not a fair comparison.

Some of his reports are of the mind your own business nature. But people minding their own business when it comes to child rape and murder is a completely different animal that does not really come into play in this discussion.

 

[suzihawk]

Watch man must size people up or they would never suspect anyone.
they would allow anything and everything and only call when it is much too late.

What are they supposed to watch for?
someone already running with a loot?
somene already grabbing a kid into a car?
I think that would be late.
They are there to prevent that from happening.
WHAT

No. They are there as eyes and ears to report suspicious behavior to the correct authorities to take action . I repeat, SUSPICIOUS behavior. Not behavior he doesn't happen to approve of. MOO

 

[Tulessa]

But isn't "sizing someone up" the same as judging?

Like I said - you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

We all do it. GZ sized up or judged TM. And his first impression was wrong.

But GZ acted on that wrong first impression and he continued to make bad choices. I believe he should be held accountable and have the appropriate consequences for those bad choices.


JMHO

Great post!!!:woohoo:

 

[iluvmua]

His clothes had nothing to do with why LE was called. The reason LE was called is on the 911 call.

We have no way to know if Zimmerman intercepted Martin. Martin took off running and had plenty of time to get to his house if that was his goal.

Zimmerman has, a decent job, a wife, a car, and at 28, had not been in trouble with the law for seven years. By all accounts, a responsible citizen contributing to society and his neighborhood.

Trayvon had been in trouble for breaking zero-tolerance rules at school several times , and had just been suspended as a result of them, that day. Why is it out of the realm of possibility that he might have looked suspicious, looking for trouble, outside of school?

The entire incident, from beginning to end, lasted SEVEN minutes.

This is seen as me taking GZ's side. The above is not me taking anyone's side, the above are just the facts.

How far away was he from his house and if he was running how long would it take him to get to his house?

 

[vlpate]

I wish we could get at least an idea of how long LE was at the scene that night. We know GZ was taken to the station 35 minutes after the shooting. And we know that TM's dad was home 10:45 - 11:00 and said there was no sign of anything by then.

Including his son. He said he called Trayvon's phone a couple of times and went to bed. Didn't the other boy tell his dad Trayvon just went to the store and was supposed to be back? Was the other boy scared when he didn't return? Wouldn't one think the boy would call Tracy or his mom, Tracy's girlfriend, and tell them Trayvon had not returned? Am I to believe the other boy (not sure how old he is), did not hear anything? Sirens? Nothing? When Tracy got home, and Trayvon had been gone four hours - why didn't he go looking for his child? Maybe run up to the 7-11 and ask if they'd seen him?

If my child said they were going to the store and would be right back, and I couldn't reach her on the phone, even at 27 years old, I would be in panic mode. I know I'd call the cousin if I thought he was with him. I can't completely buy all that's been told to us about that night, after Trayvon was killed, because the story Tracy first told, has changed. This should not be construed, in any way, that I blame the father for Trayvon's death, because that would be ludicrous. This is to say I don't think Tracy is being straightforward about where Trayvon was supposed to be that evening.

So, how long where they there? Residents would know - I bet even some of them stood out there and watched them. It does take some time for the CSI techs to take all the pictures and bag and tag the evidence. But really what evidence? Only thing on that partial police report taken into evidence was the gun.

That's just it, there was no other evidence. It stands to reason pictures were taken, but I wouldn't expect those to be on the initial police report. They are partial anyway, so who knows what else was on them.

Years ago - when we had a neighbor commit suicide - man, they were there for a good 4 - 5 hours. And what evidence would they have had to collect there as well? She used a gun and just sat down in a chair. I do know it did take a while for the ME to show up.

They may not have believed it was suicide? They probably took fingerprints, blood spatter evidence, etc. JMO In the case of GZ & Trayvon, it was clear who shot whom.

That's another thing - we haven't heard when the ME got there or anything. But the time frame we've been given just doesn't sit right with me. How could they have done all they need to do in that short of time?

And,

And,

Where is Trayvon's phone?

JMHO

Does LE not have it?