17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[GrandmaTo4]

And we do have a statement by the lead detective that he wanted charges brought. This needs to be looked at in detail, imo. :seeya:
I am anxious to hear the outcome of the investigation. Then maybe we will know more.
All of these newspeople and others commenting in the press need to take a step back, imo, and let the investigation run it's course.

bbm

Absolutely! There have been several very, very strange and not customary things that happened with the powers-to-be that sent Zimmerman home that night.

In my opinion something stinks much worse than simple police corruption!

all imho

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Thank you for this. Interesting this source is listing an assault within the complex just this past Saturday night.

So, if we are to trust this source, there hasn't been any crime in the complex since Oct?

IDK about that. Anyone have those reports of past 911 calls with dates? But I guess just because GZ called doesn't mean that a crime was committed - right?



JMHO

ETA: This was quoting Cityslick's link - I always forget to click that pesky box! :biggrin: AND I want to add - this source isn't even showing Trayvon's shooting on it - that was 2/26 - hhhmmmmm................why's that?

 

[Emeralgem]

This is why I don't think he was racially profiling TM. I think he profiled everyone if they looked suspicious enough.

To a degree I am somewhat inclined to believe you may be correct however IMHO and from the remarks he made when on the phone with dispatch in regards to...."These @$$ h----- always get away"..I can't help but think there was some racial profiling on his part regarding TM...JMHO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Awwww, I wasn't knocking you, I really hadn't even seen that you said hundreds of thousands. I was just mentioning that the lead investigator doesn't buy his story either.

I haven't signed it but think I will, so that makes plus one more, lol.

JMHO

Just an FYI regarding signing the petition. You can sign the petition and have the option to keep your name private. Just wanted to jump off your post and let everyone know in case anyone is concerned about privacy issues.

wm

 

[LambChop]

Hate to quote my own post but that really got the wheels turning.

We know that TM was on the phone with the gf. The gf says she heard both GZ and TM speak to each other (at least the first sentences).

And here is where this goes. With all of GZ's stories that he's told or LE's told or GZ's attny, family and friends have told - NOT A ONE has that particular detail in it. Not one.

Why would no one from GZ's camp ever say that TM's was on the phone - now maybe GZ didn't know (earbuds in the ears with hoodie up) but still - the initial confrontation - GZ's camp has never told a version with those details included. There is one story but the words exchanged are no where near what the gf's saying.

So again, I have to ask - why all the different versions?

The truth doesn't change.




JMHO

Most people who are critical of the gf's version may have overlooked an important fact. When she found out what happened she had to have told her family the story. When she was hospitalized she had to have told her doctor what happened and that would be documented long before she would "think" to reconstruct her story to fit in with TM being a victim. jmo

 

[leanaí]

Are you stating that GZ's attorney, family and friends are all lying because we've heard them give different versions of what GZ said happened???? jmo

I said lies by the media.

 

[Concerned Papa]

According to the New York Times graphics, Trayvon's back door was in the middle of the building at the end of the sidewalk.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

Hmmm...Welcome to WebSleuths. Interesting first post.

I was aware of this article, and frankly chose to believe the man that lived there for the purposes of the illustration I posted. I went into specific detail as to how I placed the location of the residence in this comment:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7743501&postcount=641"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12[/ame]


Whether the residence is where the NY Times says it is or Tracy Martin, lets see if it even matters in the context of the point I was illustrating:

Please notice that Google Earth says it's 107.11 feet further to the south from one back porch to the other. At a running rate of 9 mph, the additional distance would have taken 8.114 seconds to cover:

9 x 5,280 ft/m divided by 60 min/hr divided by 60 sec/min = 13.2 feet/second.

107.11 feet divided by 13.2 feet/second = 8.114 seconds

You will notice in my illustration I suggested that TM could have arrived at his back door at [7:12:01 pm]. Add this additional 8 seconds and the ensuing theoretical arrival time would become [7:12:09]. I don't really think that matters in the context of what I was saying.

I don't know where TM lived other than what the available information tells us. I'm not trying to solve this case or be anyone's hero. I'm like the rest of you, simply trying to understand how this tragedy happened. There exists a gap of 5 minutes between when Trayvon "took off running" at [7:11:41 pm] and when he was killed at [7:16:44].

I just came with what I felt was a reasonable theory to fill in the blanks, no more, no less.

 

[cityslick]

Thank you for this. Interesting this source is listing an assault within the complex just this past Saturday night.

So, if we are to trust this source, there hasn't been any crime in the complex since Oct?

IDK about that. Anyone have those reports of past 911 calls with dates? But I guess just because GZ called doesn't mean that a crime was committed - right?



JMHO

ETA: This was quoting Cityslick's link - I always forget to click that pesky box! :biggrin: AND I want to add - this source isn't even showing Trayvon's shooting on it - that was 2/26 - hhhmmmmm................why's that?

Yea, I'm not sure how accurate it is. I googled crime map for Sanford and that's the link Sandford LE provides on a FAQ 'where can I find a crime map of the area'.

 

[iluvmua]

when the GJ gets this, will we hear all the facts including what the GF told police about happened?

I'm very interested in her phone call

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Morning papa. I get what you're saying about the time and distance - I just don't think Trayvon even got close to his back porch.

Here's a thought. Would it make a difference if say GZ went through the second cut-through between the buildings (close to your #6) and possibly Trayvon saw him come out there and turned around to walk back to the main sidewalk so he could get out to the street his house was on and walk down that street to his front door?

I could see him turning around and heading back to that first sidewalk. He didn't tell the gf that - but would he? Also I do think he would have said something to the gf about being that close to home.

IDK - it is odd how close he ended up from that turn with the time in question.




JMHO

 

[ladonna]

when the GJ gets this, will we hear all the facts including what the GF told police about happened?

I'm very interested in her phone call

The special prosecutor has said she may not require a GJ.

 

[Ironhorse]

BBM

Lets also hope that the entire "Stand your Ground" laws will be repealed. They're barbaric!

imho

The cliché "Wild West" makes for a catchy headline but the image musters up only a Hollywood vision and not reality. The wild west was hardly the lawless gun duel at noon on the streets, as people imagine it to be... 'Stand Your Ground' laws only reestablish what humanity was given by nature ages ago. A person shouldn't have to live in fear that they must surrender their property & freedom to thugs.

In this situation of the Zimmerman/Martin it's unclear as to how much or how little this applies. We don't know all the facts surrounding the encounter.

 

[thefragile7393]

The special prosecutor has said she may not require a GJ.

Right. Richard Hornsby explained that last night on the Websleuths radio show. She can go straight to charges or......something else. Are there transcripts available lol? My brain is fried right now.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

 

[LambChop]

It's only a witch hunt if it turns out that GZ is telling the complete truth and the story (as we are led to believe) does not make TM an innocent in this.

For example, I can say for certainty that the Duke lacrosse case was a witch hunt. Everyone had those boys convicted or a good majority did. It was covered by the media, especially locally, as such.

It's GZ accountings that don't make sense. TM's parents are asking people not look at it as a black and white thing but a right and wrong thing. When you consider how the FBI profiles criminals and their behavior, looking back at GZ's past and present behavior leaves a big question mark in people's minds. Not accepting the SYG law is not exactly a witch hunt. I've seen more wild speculation regarding TM's parents to discredit them when they had nothing to do with what happened and it has nothing to do with the crime.

Right now there are too many versions from GZ's side about what happened. We all know that initially a person involved in an incident gives their statement and the facts should support this statement and not all the facts support his statement, nor what his family has related afterwards.

Anyone has the right to question GZ's motives as a shooter for following a "suspect" when he knew he was not permitted to do so. What happened is what we are trying to figure out, it's not a witch hunt to question someone's motivation. The general public is not trying to lynch him, they just want a proper investigation done without political influence on either side. It appears GZ is losing ground fast. This is not the Duke case and the motivation can not be compared, IMO. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

Right. Richard Hornsby explained that last night on the Websleuths radio show. She can go straight to charges or......something else. Are there transcripts available lol? My brain is fried right now.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

Not sure about a transcript but this article was run last week in which she talks about the grand jury....

Trayvon Martin Case: Attorney Choice Sparks Division

"Our process in every case is that we utilize a grand jury for indictment in investigations if we need them," Corey responded. "We may or may not need them, and we'll know that in a couple of weeks."

In other interviews, she again suggested that she may not wait for a grand jury to act. With protesters across the country calling for Zimmerman's arrest, Corey's every comment is being analyzed.

Corey declared this week that she's done talking for now. But Floridians who have worked with Corey, or watched her career, still have plenty to say.

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/31/149685179/in-trayvon-martin-case-attorney-also-scrutinized



~jmo~

 

[cityslick]

It's GZ accountings that don't make sense. TM's parents are asking people not look at it as a black and white thing but a right and wrong thing. When you consider how the FBI profiles criminals and their behavior, looking back at GZ's past and present behavior leaves a big question mark in people's minds. Not accepting the SYG law is not exactly a witch hunt. I've seen more wild speculation regarding TM's parents to discredit them when they had nothing to do with what happened and it has nothing to do with the crime.

Right now there are too many versions from GZ's side about what happened. We all know that initially a person involved in an incident gives their statement and the facts should support this statement and not all the facts support his statement, nor what his family has related afterwards.

Anyone has the right to question GZ's motives as a shooter for following a "suspect" when he knew he was not permitted to do so. What happened is what we are trying to figure out, it's not a witch hunt to question someone's motivation. The general public is not trying to lynch him, they just want a proper investigation done without political influence on either side. It appears GZ is losing ground fast. This is not the Duke case and the motivation can not be compared, IMO. jmo

BBM

I'm not sure if that's what you got out of my post. I never acknowledged that this was in fact a witch hunt nor did I compare it to Duke, just used Duke as an example of what I think constitutes a witch hunt.

 

[LambChop]

Morning papa. I get what you're saying about the time and distance - I just don't think Trayvon even got close to his back porch.

Here's a thought. Would it make a difference if say GZ went through the second cut-through between the buildings (close to your #6) and possibly Trayvon saw him come out there and turned around to walk back to the main sidewalk so he could get out to the street his house was on and walk down that street to his front door?

I could see him turning around and heading back to that first sidewalk. He didn't tell the gf that - but would he? Also I do think he would have said something to the gf about being that close to home.

IDK - it is odd how close he ended up from that turn with the time in question.




JMHO

That sounds like a possibility that GZ walked down the cut thru path onto the next street (didn't see TM headed for the back gate) so cut thru the break in the homes to double back to his car and then found TM. So the encounter could have started further down and ended up near the cut thru path back towards GZ's car.

I would not have put it past GZ grabbing TM, maybe when the phone disconnected, and trying to march him back to his car to meet LE. I certainly hope they have a professional accident reconstruction expert try and recreate the crime. Even giving GZ the benefit of the doubt there are too many things that are not adding up with his story. jmo

I listened to that tape again with Mr. Martin's girlfriend and she was talking about him being close to home and almost to his back porch. It is clear she was referring to him almost being home.

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Hate to quote my own post but that really got the wheels turning.

We know that TM was on the phone with the gf. The gf says she heard both GZ and TM speak to each other (at least the first sentences).

And here is where this goes. With all of GZ's stories that he's told or LE's told or GZ's attny, family and friends have told - NOT A ONE has that particular detail in it. Not one.

Why would no one from GZ's camp ever say that TM's was on the phone - now maybe GZ didn't know (earbuds in the ears with hoodie up) but still - the initial confrontation - GZ's camp has never told a version with those details included. There is one story but the words exchanged are no where near what the gf's saying.

So again, I have to ask - why all the different versions?

The truth doesn't change.




JMHO

bbm

The father did mention it in his interview. He said it was a LIE! Isn't that speecial?

imo

 

[SuziQ]

George Zimmerman: Self-appointed watchman or racist killer?
By David Ovalle The Miami Herald

A portrait of George Zimmerman paints the picture of a man obsessed with law enforcement, the very career that eluded him.

By David Ovalle
dovalle@MiamiHerald.com
SANFORD, Fla -- George Michael Zimmerman, the man at the center of the racially charged killing of an unarmed black teen, is a former altar boy, insurance salesman and college student.

And another label has also stuck in the public’s perception: frustrated cop wannabe.

Over the years, his scores of calls to police showed he pursued shoplifters and errant drivers with zeal, reporting pit bulls, potholes, children playing in the street, open garage doors and “suspicious” youths — usually black males — loitering in the street.

He peppered his calls with jargon familiar to police. In one case, he chased a reckless driver while calling 911 — the driver later told police he was terrified that Zimmerman was going to attack him. In another case, Zimmerman tailed a supermarket shoplifter until a police officer successfully arrested the thief.

On the night of Feb. 26, he tailed Trayvon Martin through the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the gated community where Zimmerman lived with his wife, describing his every move to a dispatcher who told him he didn’t need to follow the young man. A scuffle ensued and Zimmerman shot Trayvon dead. Zimmerman claims self-defense.

Dr. Laurence Miller, a Palm Beach County clinical psychologist who works with local police agencies, said he believes Zimmerman likely was acting out the “whole TV cop role in his head” when he confronted Trayvon.

“A lot of people like the power and control that law enforcement officers have but with that comes a tremendous amount of responsibility,” Miller said, pointing out that a police officer is the only profession that can use “coercive physical force” or lethal force to subdue a suspected criminal.

“People act like cowboys and like the power, but not the responsibility.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...#storylink=cpy

Red by me.
This is exactly the impression I get from the quotes taken from GZ's accounts of what Trayvon said. Straight from Starsky and Hutch IMO.

 

[raeann]

Crime map of the complex from Oct - now.

http://www.crimemapping.com/map.aspx?aid=5dc41631-9542-443d-83e6-64ac5549aba7

hmmm what happened to the 9 burglaries by young black men the Zimmerman family and friends constantly state as fact???