17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

[Karmady]

The CBS article took creative license with what I said about my stand your ground cases. I told him I have filed a Motion to Dismiss based upon the Stand Your Ground law in about 15 cases.

I then told him that of those 15, three went to a hearing and I won. I said I never had a full blown hearing on the other cases because they were dismissed for other reasons; such as the witnesses did not show, the state conceded, etc.

He responded, so you won them all then. I said, if you want to look at it that way, I guess I did.

I didn't realize you were a member here! If/when you have a moment, can you please explain here or on your blog exactly how SYG comes into play, if at all, past the preliminary hearing stage in terms of immunity v. defense, burden of proof and damages?

 

[Adrienne37]

Miami-Dade firefighter under investigation for Trayvon Martin Facebook rant

Private Facebook posting from a Miami-Dade firefighter blasting “urban youth” and “ignorant, pathetic” parents draws probe.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/...ighter-under-investigation.html#storylink=cpy

 

[rhornsby]

This really doesn't apply to this case because of SYG law in FL. The burden of proof in FL will be on the prosecution.

The Florida Supreme Court has clearly ruled that the Defendant has the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, an entitled to "criminal prosecution immunity" (and thus dismissal) under the Stand Your Ground law. Dennis v. State, 51 So. 3d 456 (Fla. 2010)

So at a Stand Your Ground hearing, the defense would have to put on evidence to establish a right to immunity (and thus dismissal) and it would then fall to the State to put on evidence refuting the defense's evidence. The judge would then decide if he/she had been convinced by a preponderance of evidence that an entitlement to immunity has been shown. If so, the case is dismissed, if not, the case goes to trial and the defendant can then raise the self defense argument with the jury.

If the case goes to trial, the State would have to disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt; if the State cannot disprove the issue of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt, the judge should dismiss the charge before it even gets to a jury. See Stieh v. State, (Fla. 2d DCA 2011).

 

[JeannaT]

The Florida Supreme Court has clearly ruled that the Defendant has the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, an entitled to "criminal prosecution immunity" (and thus dismissal) under the Stand Your Ground law. Dennis v. State, 51 So. 3d 456 (Fla. 2010)

So at a Stand Your Ground hearing, the defense would have to put on evidence to establish a right to immunity (and thus dismissal) and it would then fall to the State to put on evidence refuting the defense's evidence. The judge would then decide if he/she had been convinced by a preponderance of evidence that an entitlement to immunity has been shown. If so, the case is dismissed, if not, the case goes to trial and the defendant can then raise the self defense argument with the jury.

Thank you! So at the original hearing, only the defense has a right to be heard? Does the prosecution offer evidence to the contrary?

Thanks again - we appreciate your expertise.

 

[Emma Peel]

:seeya: rhornsby!

Nice to see you with us again

If you have a moment ...

I've been wondering, from a defense attny view, if you feel the various appearances and assertions by George Zimmerman's friends & brother, in support of GZ, with various national talking heads - was a positive thing, a negative thing, or do you feel their very public discussions would have no affect on the case?

 

[Adrienne37]

Trial in Martin Case, Filled With High Emotion, Would Draw a News Swarm

The Orlando Sentinel’s Twitter account for the Trayvon Martin case is up and running. So, too, is its topics page, with links to all the newspaper’s articles about Mr. Martin and the man who shot and killed him, George Zimmerman, as well as video clips of its reporters talking about the case on television. A Facebook page will go online on Monday. And a Web video series might be next.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/b...zimmerman-trial-could-start-a-news-swarm.html

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The Florida Supreme Court has clearly ruled that the Defendant has the burden of proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, an entitled to "criminal prosecution immunity" (and thus dismissal) under the Stand Your Ground law. Dennis v. State, 51 So. 3d 456 (Fla. 2010)

So at a Stand Your Ground hearing, the defense would have to put on evidence to establish a right to immunity (and thus dismissal) and it would then fall to the State to put on evidence refuting the defense's evidence. The judge would then decide if he/she had been convinced by a preponderance of evidence that an entitlement to immunity has been shown. If so, the case is dismissed, if not, the case goes to trial and the defendant can then raise the self defense argument with the jury.

Thank you for the great info! I really appreciate it and I'm sure many others here do as well.

Regarding the part BBM above: but the defendant does have to put on an affirmative defense, correct? The burden isn't simply on the prosecution to prove that it wasn't self-defense?

Thanks again. It's great to get information from a knowledgeable source.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Thank you! So at the original hearing, only the defense has a right to be heard? Does the prosecution offer evidence to the contrary?

Thanks again - we appreciate your expertise.

I'm not RH, but to me he clearly said that both sides present their cases at the hearing and the judge decides on immunity under SYG.

 

[rhornsby]

Thank you! So at the original hearing, only the defense has a right to be heard? Does the prosecution offer evidence to the contrary?

Thanks again - we appreciate your expertise.

The Immunity hearing on the Stand Your Ground issue has not been heard yet, and will not be scheduled for months.

Initial Hearings and Preliminary Hearings are perfunctory hearings in Florida because we have the right to depositions, thus nothing ever happens at them.

Do not read anything into the fact Mark O'Mara did not make any arguments at the IA hearing.

 

[rhornsby]

:seeya: rhornsby!

Nice to see you with us again

If you have a moment ...

I've been wondering, from a defense attny view, if you feel the various appearances and assertions by George Zimmerman's friends & brother, in support of GZ, with various national talking heads - was a positive thing, a negative thing, or do you feel their very public discussions would have no affect on the case?

I though his friend, Joe Oliver I believe, did a good job. His brother needs to clean up his <modsnip> look if he wants to be a family representative and advocate for his brother.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The Immunity hearing on the Stand Your Ground issue has not been heard yet, and will not be scheduled for months.

Initial Hearings and Preliminary Hearings are perfunctory hearings in Florida because we have the right to depositions, thus nothing ever happens at them.

Do not read anything into the fact Mark O'Mara did not make any arguments at the IA hearing.

Objection! The witness is not answering the question!

(Sorry, couldn't resist.):floorlaugh:

I believe Jeanna's question boils down to, does the prosecution get to present its case at the immunity hearing, or only the defense?

 

[octobermoon]

RH
Thank you for taking the time answer questions.
Much appreciated.

 

[Emma Peel]

I though his friend, Joe Oliver I believe, did a good job. His brother needs to clean up his guido look if he wants to be a family representative and advocate for his brother.

So no issues with the advocacy that happened with Joe Oliver or his brother.

How about Frank Taapee, the neighborhood crime watch friend?
(Nancy Grace/CNN)

 

[Lovejac]

IDK, I'm shaking my head, not only at their story, but at SPD for buying it!

I'd be willing to bet Barney Fife would've seen through this bs.

Ole Barney Fife would have "nipped it in the bud!"

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

 

[rhornsby]

Objection! The witness is not answering the question!

(Sorry, couldn't resist.):floorlaugh:

I believe Jeanna's question boils down to, does the prosecution get to present its case at the immunity hearing, or only the defense?

I did answer the question, the state has to put on evidence to try and refute the defendant's self defense argument. How much evidence they put on is their decision.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I did answer the question, the state has to put on evidence to try and refute the defendant's self defense argument. How much evidence they put on is their decision.

Thank you, that is what I thought you said originally.

 

[Adrienne37]

Oliver had a great speaking voice for sure and actually seemed to be quite knowledgeable about the entire situation but it's too bad it was proven that he really knew nothing at all about Zimmerman.


~jmo~

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I did answer the question, the state has to put on evidence to try and refute the defendant's self defense argument. How much evidence they put on is their decision.

If one of George's friends gets on TV and says well George told me this and George told me that, could the SA make them take the stand and then question them about what George told them from what they said on TV?

 

[Adrienne37]

Mr. Hornsby - In reading some of the articles about Zimmerman's use of SYG, I understood them to say that Zimmerman would almost be forced to take the stand to give his version. Is that correct?

 

[Malapoo]

What I still cannot understand is could SYG also apply to Trayvon? I've been recently called an idiot for suggesting this. Trayvon knew he was being followed if the girlfriend's statements are being quoted appropriately and she is being honest - and I think if people are saying George is truthful, she is entitled to the same.

Was he aware of being followed by the truck initially, then on foot? If so, how would he know that George was "alledgedly" returning to his truck to drive away? If Trayvon had believed he lost him and then saw him going to the truck, why wouldn't he believe George was simply going to cruise around "hunting" him more?

When did Trayvon know George had a gun? Supposed you approached someone to see why they were following you and you saw the gun or bulge of a gun? After being followed for some period of time, feeling uncomfortable about it and then being face to face, if George had even reached in his pocket for his keys, can't Trayvon be in fear for his life at that point when George thought at one point UNARMED Trayvon WAS armed because he had his hands in his pockets &/or hoodie.

And yes, George SHOULD have called out at any point in this whole mess - "Excuse me young man, I am neighborhood watch, do you live here?" Should never have followed him. A judge or jury may find he did nothing illegal, but through his own bravado or stupidity, or a combination of the two, he KILLED a person.

And I would like to throw in, that I have SO MUCH admiration and respect for his (Trayvon) mother. I wish I could give her a huge hug.