17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

[rhornsby]

If one of George's friends gets on TV and says well George told me this and George told me that, could the SA make them take the stand and then question them about what George told them from what they said on TV?

Yes, they could.

 

[rhornsby]

What I still cannot understand is could SYG also apply to Trayvon? I've been recently called an idiot for suggesting this. Trayvon knew he was being followed if the girlfriend's statements are being quoted appropriately and she is being honest - and I think if people are saying George is truthful, she is entitled to the same.

Was he aware of being followed by the truck initially, then on foot? If so, how would he know that George was "alledgedly" returning to his truck to drive away? If Trayvon had believed he lost him and then saw him going to the truck, why wouldn't he believe George was simply going to cruise around "hunting" him more?

When did Trayvon know George had a gun? Supposed you approached someone to see why they were following you and you saw the gun or bulge of a gun? After being followed for some period of time, feeling uncomfortable about it and then being face to face, if George had even reached in his pocket for his keys, can't Trayvon be in fear for his life at that point when George thought at one point UNARMED Trayvon WAS armed because he had his hands in his pockets &/or hoodie.

And yes, George SHOULD have called out at any point in this whole mess - "Excuse me young man, I am neighborhood watch, do you live here?" Should never have followed him. A judge or jury may find he did nothing illegal, but through his own bravado or stupidity, or a combination of the two, he KILLED a person.

And I would like to throw in, that I have SO MUCH admiration and respect for his (Trayvon) mother. I wish I could give her a huge hug.

If Trayvon was still alive, both he and Zimmerman could have claimed self defense if both were charged with a crime.

While not technically a subjective defense, self defense can be raised by both parties to an altercation because the question is whether they "reasonably believed their for force" was necessary to protect them self.

 

[rhornsby]

Mr. Hornsby - In reading some of the articles about Zimmerman's use of SYG, I understood them to say that Zimmerman would almost be forced to take the stand to give his version. Is that correct?

Technically, I suppose Mark O'Mara could introduce his police interviews. But practically, Zimmerman would have to testify.

 

[Adrienne37]

Yes, they could.

LOL, so Taaffe and Jr. could both be called to testify to the things they have thrown out there in the media. That's something to look forward to.

 

[Adrienne37]

Thank you Mr. Hornsby so much for stopping by and taking the time to explain all the complicated aspects of this case.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Oliver had a great speaking voice for sure and actually seemed to be quite knowledgeable about the entire situation but it's too bad it was proven that he really knew nothing at all about Zimmerman.


~jmo~

Not to mention his assertion that GZ's disputed word was "goon" and that "goon" is actually a term of endearment. :waitasec:

 

[RANCH]

I just want to say thank you Richard for the excellent article in your blog which has helped me and others understand Florida law as it pertains to this case. I hope you will continue to take time out of your busy life to help people like myself understand how the law works in cases like this.

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/

 

[octobermoon]

LOL, so Taaffe and Jr. could both be called to testify to the things they have thrown out there in the media. That's something to look forward to.

:what: no! goodness I am not even on GZ's band wagon, but I do want him to have a fair trial. Those two need to hush. IMO JMO MOO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

LOL, so Taaffe and Jr. could both be called to testify to the things they have thrown out there in the media. That's something to look forward to.

Jr. has been pretty good about not coming out and saying "George said", but Francis Taaffe has used "George told me and George said" a lot.

 

[Emma Peel]

rhornsby -

1) As defense attny, how important will a record of George's injuries sustained in the altercation to his SYG or self-defense assertions? Does it matter how serious the injuries are? What documentation of his injuries would you be hoping for?

2) Re: The girlfriend witness on the phone - how significant will her recollection of what she heard from Trayvon be? Will the fact that she was not an eyewitness make her testimony less powerful than one of the neighbors who witnessed the scuffle in person?

3) If it's successfully shown that GZ, through his following Trayvon, provoked an aggressive reaction out of Trayvon - does that make any difference in his claim of self-defense?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Always nice to know those things an actual defense attny would see as key to the case. vs. things that are just not that important...

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

:what: no! goodness I am not even on GZ's band wagon, but I do want him to have a fair trial. Those two need to hush. IMO JMO MOO

BBM--I think we all want a fair trial but in FT's own words he said GZ gave him talking points. Maybe someone is trying to reach the jury pool from jail?

 

[RANCH]

Richard H.
What are your thoughts on George Zimmerman's chances for a dismissal at an immunity hearing? Can you say at this point or do you need more evidence before giving an opinion?

 

[Adrienne37]

Not to mention his assertion that GZ's disputed word was "goon" and that "goon" is actually a term of endearment. :waitasec:

Oh yea, LOL, I forgot about that.

 

[HiHater]

Maybe someone can answer this...I'm watching Investigation Discovery, and this piqued my interest.

If the bullet exited Trayvon's body, does that mean he was standing up? In other words, if he were laying on his back, would the bullet exit or not?

 

[badme102]

Maybe someone can answer this...I'm watching Investigation Discovery, and this piqued my interest.

If the bullet exited Trayvon's body, does that mean he was standing up? In other words, if he were laying on his back, would the bullet exit or not?

I don't know about TM's case, but I followed a case that was pretty local to me about 10 years ago. The man was shot in his bed while sleeping. (in the back). There were 2 bullets fired. The first one stayed in his body, and the 2nd one traveled straight through his body, through the bed, and was found lodged in the hardwood floor under the bed.

I haven't thought about that case in a long time, until you asked this question.

I guess it all depends on trajectory, the angle and position of both parties, etc...but I found that quite odd to say the least.

 

[jaded cat]

He misunderstood what was happening, I don't think he did anything "wrong".

I was intrigued about the time Trayvon got caught in school with the jewelry, the teacher noticed Trayvon was "acting suspiciously" and investigated, and found the jewelry and screwdriver in his possession.

I'm bringing this up because I wonder what the teacher saw? What GZ saw? Both seem to characterize Trayvon's movements the same way.

If the case was that Trayvon was merely running in GZ's direction - as a pure coincidence to get out of the rain for example - and GZ mistakenly shot and killed him, that would be horrific and would make GZ feel remorse.

He was being punched in the head. I really don't know how much remorse I'd feel for shooting some guy who was on top of me pounding my head. I'd feel sad for his family, for sure. My mindset is it's likely one of us isn't going to live through this incident, and it's going to be you.

There is absolutely no comparison to an event that happened at school and the same young man walking home from the convenience store. You can spin anyway your heart desires but the comparison is false and makes your claim look ridiculous.

Unless TM had his hood up, was talking on his phone and was looking around in class, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that makes GZ suspicions not appear faulty.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Wow.

I just watched this interview with Joe Oliver, that I have never seen before:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence...eorge-zimmerman-pal-joe-oliver-epic-grilling/

(not sure if this site qualifies as MSM, but the clips I'm referring to are definitely from MSM)

and I have to say, with all due respect to Mr. Hornsby, if he thinks Joe Oliver was "good"...

:what:

First of all he won't even answer the question of whether he first knew GZ socially or from work...

then he contradicts himself on whether or not he knew GZ took anger management classes...

and more.

IMO JMO and all.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

...Could SYG also apply to Trayvon? I've been recently called an idiot for suggesting this. Trayvon knew he was being followed if the girlfriend's statements are being quoted appropriately and she is being honest.

This is precisely what I see and keep saying. IMO, if Trayvon hit GZ, then TM simply invoked his SYG right. He was just gunless and failed.

Given the circumstances, TM had more of a reason to use SYG than GZ did. He felt in danger, based on what he allegedly told his girlfriend.

GZ never told 911 that he felt endangered or terrorized or fearful. Just the opposite: he began premeditating not to let the "*advertiser censored**hole get away."

My impression is that it's the State's job to stand up for the victim. Hopefully, AC & Prosecution Team will be effecting in showing that, if a fight ensued -- again: IF -- that is was simply TM using his SYG right. Which GZ forced him into needing.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Wow.

I just watched this interview with Joe Oliver, that I have never seen before:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence...eorge-zimmerman-pal-joe-oliver-epic-grilling/

(not sure if this site qualifies as MSM, but the clips I'm referring to are definitely from MSM)

and I have to say, with all due respect to Mr. Hornsby, if he thinks Joe Oliver was "good"...

:what:

First of all he won't even answer the question of whether he first knew GZ socially or from work...

then he contradicts himself on whether or not he knew GZ took anger management classes...

and more.

IMO JMO and all.

Sorry to bump my own post, but in addition:

IMO JO several times brings up George drinking or not drinking out of the blue.
Hmm.:waitasec:

 

[Adrienne37]

Wow.

I just watched this interview with Joe Oliver, that I have never seen before:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/lawrence...eorge-zimmerman-pal-joe-oliver-epic-grilling/

(not sure if this site qualifies as MSM, but the clips I'm referring to are definitely from MSM)

and I have to say, with all due respect to Mr. Hornsby, if he thinks Joe Oliver was "good"...

:what:

First of all he won't even answer the question of whether he first knew GZ socially or from work...

then he contradicts himself on whether or not he knew GZ took anger management classes...

and more.

IMO JMO and all.

LOL. You must have watched the Lawrence O'Donnell/Charles Blow interview? I've said it 100 times but I just have to say again, that's some of the best TV ever!!


~jmo~