Trial Thread 4/26/2012

[Macright]

I guess I would be amiss also if I did'nt thank all who kept us up todate with the daily tweets..thank you also from me for taking the trouble to do this... I would imagine next week this time we will be parting ways as I am sure this will probably be wrapped up...

 

[otto]

I will have to read that book. Thank you Otto. I agree we make of ourselves what we want to.

I should probably attach a warning to recommending those books ... they are about the clash between good and evil, religion and philosophy, but they are also about sadism.

 

[otto]

not understanding how you can label one's lifestyle as the reason for being a monster but the other was a born monster... a lot of people, including people on this site have posted about having a very troubling upbringing but to my knowledge they haven't murdered anyone and have gone on to lead a very productive life. ...granted TLM did not have a normal upbringing just because we know that from what has been written about her but to date we know nothing about MR's upbringing so I am not sure how you can come to that conclusion...one their upbringing making them a monster and the other just a born monster...JMO just curious I guess...

I think that TLM was most likely born a bit of a monster and MR was most likely born a pedophile.

 

[Alison]

not understanding how you can label one's lifestyle as the reason for being a monster but the other was a born monster... a lot of people, including people on this site have posted about having a very troubling upbringing but to my knowledge they haven't murdered anyone and have gone on to lead a very productive life. ...granted TLM did not have a normal upbringing just because we know that from what has been written about her but to date we know nothing about MR's upbringing so I am not sure how you can come to that conclusion...one their upbringing making them a monster and the other just a born monster...JMO just curious I guess...

I do not know MR's upbringing but I do know he was a 28 year old man still hanging onto mommies curtails and having everyone else provide for him. I also stated it was my opinion only. However if he had a troubled youth we would have heard about it by now. Since it was not brought up for the good or the bad I am going to have to presume he lived a pretty okay life. <modsnip>. Oh and I do not think being abused as a child as a lifestyle just saying....
I also wonder <modsnip> continue to place all the blame on TLM with blatent evidence <modsnip>.... just curious I guess......
<modsnip>.

 

[Confusedashell]

So if the defense decides to call a witness on Tuesday it would have to be MR right?? so does anyone think he will take the stand on tuesday??

 

[Macright]

Salem, there are many exceptional things in this case, and I would have to say that the defendant is being afforded a great many accomodations, that he would otherwise not have, but, for the high profile nature of the case. The Judge is likely trying to avoid a circus next week.

I do expect, that not only will Derstine "call evidence", um, a witness, on Tuesday, but, that it will be Michael Rafferty himself.

I would expect that he would be getting primped and ready for this main event next week. He will want to make sure he looks very, very good (well, as good as he can now that he looks the way he does).

Derstine would not want to present Rafferty at the tail end of the week. Nor would he want his clients' testimony being broken up by a long weekend.

The very fact that they are even suggesting that Derstine might not present a case, seems preposterous to me.

Therefore I can only conclude, speculate and offer an opinion to the fact that the great suspense is that Rafferty will get up on the stand next week, and tell everyone just exactly what happened on April 8, 2009.

JMO MOOOOOOMOOOOOO

now that is something that I would look forward to..MR on the stand but somehow I have a gut feeling that it is not going to happen..but I will stand corrected if he should do so and I would welcome hearing what he has to say..I think his lawyer will do all the talking and that could be why MR has been taking notes in shorthand all throughout this trial...JMO

 

[LilyMacBloom]

my vote is yes, he will take the stand. Against his lawyers advice.

 

[Heliotrope]

I think this needs to be mentioned IMO:

TLM while I agree she is a horrific monster (and I think he is even worse than that) is a product of our society. We as a society let her down from the day she was born. She was allowed to be adopted out to a woman who was not mother material. She was consistantly and repeatedly abused as a young child, with no real interference from the authorities; as she remained in CM's custody. She then began to get into trouble with the law. After she served her sentance whose custody was she released to? Why of course the very woman who screwed her up in the first place, CM. So people on here are right she is a monster but that is because she was set up to fail from the very first breath she took. We all have choices and she very obviously made the worst ones possible, but as a society we shoulder the blame as well. People need to open their eyes and realize that this goes on all the time and we need to protect the young to ensure that they do not suffer harm and can grow into productive members in society.

You're not wrong there. Cases like this peel back the glossy surface and reveal the rot, and I think that makes us all very uncomfortable. But where would you even begin to try to make things better?

 

[matou]

LFP videos never work for me. I'll have to look for them elsewhere.

I found a video link for the May 12th visit to the detention center here. Less than two minutes long: http://www.nationalpost.com/multimedia/video/index.html?embedCode=RwN2xqNDorMeKj2bzjdbWSgVYztlMDsX

He's showing her how to hold her hands to crack his back while both are standing up. JMO

 

[roseofsharon]

So if the defense decides to call a witness on Tuesday it would have to be MR right?? so does anyone think he will take the stand on tuesday??

I don't think he will, however, if he does take the stand, we are in for a very long trial.

With reference to his police interview, MR likes to formulate his lies first, so he answers a question by repeating the question with voice inflection.

MOO

 

[Alison]

If I had to vote whether or not he was going to take the stand I would have to say no he will not. Far to risky IMO. However I as well think it would be interesting.

 

[antiquegirl]

Snipped and bolded by me.

I understand why people want to think they drugged her,because then she suffered less. Sadly, though, I don't think she did, for the reason you mention, and like others said up thread, junkies don't like to part with their drugs.

imo

(RSBM)

I'm one of those who had hoped that Tori was drugged so she would have suffered less. But I don't think she wasn't because MTR was too stingy with his Percs. He had 300 and he only needed one to subdue an 8 year-old. And IMHO, it wasn't because they wanted to see her suffer, either. I think it was because it never occurred to them. I agree with the poster who wrote that some drugs will show up from hair and bones in forensic testing. I'm not sure that Percocets would, but doubt the pathologist would neglect to administer any test at all in this case. Sadly, I'm sure that had any been found, it would have been mentioned during the trial. Also, TLM would have been asked and testified to it.

I also believe that had she been physically struck before they reached Mount Forest, it would have been part of TLM's testimony. She admitted that she stomped and murdered her, so why not admit to hitting her previously? And if she claims that MTR sexually assaulted her, there's no reason for her to not testify to him hitting her either. I'm guessing poor Tori was verbally threatened to remain quiet and still.

JMO

 

[gardenia]

I think he might take the stand ... figuring what does he have to lose at this point.

Just my opinion.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoyalSleuth
I have often wondered if she was conscious during the BA visit and this HD stop... No Movement at all seen in the vehicle... TS seemed so spirited and smart IMO, she would have known the car is not moving - why wouldn't she of peeked out saw they were in public and made a fight for it, scream, something... IMO - she was gone already, passed I mean...

I was asking that myself many times. Maybe they gave Tori some pills too just to keep her quiet.

At the very beginning of this case I thought perhaps they had drugged Tori to keep her quiet, and that they gave her too much and she may have slipped into a coma and that's why they couldn't bring her home anymore. So they decided to bring her to that remote location and kill her. However, I think early in the trial it was said that they did tox test on Tori's hair (because hair continues to grow after death, so the follicle would still be live) but I don't think they got anything because it had been too long she was dead.

 

[lightlady]

I tend to think MR will take the stand. I think he will try to paint himself as an innocent dupe of a guy who tried to help poor TLM out of her terrible life. Similar to what he told his many women friends after the murder. He will state how surprised he was that she was able to do such a heinous act. He will express sympathy for her and her upbringing. He will try his best to charm the jury, the same way he seems to have charmed so many others. I don't believe it will work, and I hope I am wrong about it.

 

[snoofer]

I don't think he will, however, if he does take the stand, we are in for a very long trial.

With reference to his police interview, MR likes to formulate his lies first, so he answers a question by repeating the question with voice inflection.

MOO

yes! MOO

 

[roseofsharon]

(RSBM)

I'm one of those who had hoped that Tori was drugged so she would have suffered less. But I don't think she wasn't because MTR was too stingy with his Percs. He had 300 and he only needed one to subdue an 8 year-old. And IMHO, it wasn't because they wanted to see her suffer, either. I think it was because it never occurred to them. I agree with the poster who wrote that some drugs will show up from hair and bones in forensic testing. I'm not sure that Percocets would, but doubt the pathologist would neglect to administer any test at all in this case. Sadly, I'm sure that had any been found, it would have been mentioned during the trial. Also, TLM would have been asked and testified to it.

I also believe that had she been physically struck before they reached Mount Forest, it would have been part of TLM's testimony. She admitted that she stomped and murdered her, so why not admit to hitting her previously? And if she claims that MTR sexually assaulted her, there's no reason for her to not testify to him hitting her either. I'm guessing poor Tori was verbally threatened to remain quiet and still.

JMO

MR and TLM could have had other drugs on their person, i.e. benzodiazapines. .50 mg. would have been enough to put TS asleep, i.e. CA and Zanax for little Caylee. MOO

 

[matou]

As to him testifying, I'm not sure. However, MR has a feminine aspect to his voice, and it may work in his favor if the jury finds him too 'wimpy' to harm a little girl. He is a manipulator. He managed to get a girlfriend to escort herself out and give him all her cash from it, while seeing many other women at the same time. B. Armstrong said chatting with him was like "girl talk", he has a gift for the gab and all that goes with it, I suspect. Oh, and I'm sure he would unleash the tears too.There are more female jurors than male and maybe he thinks he can work them like he worked the other women in his life. MO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I must have watched too many CSI type show ha..but I do remember a few years back when that little girl was kidnapped in Portugal that they mentioned hair testing of her two siblings because it was claimed the parents gave them something to make them sleep while they went to dinner...JMO

So you have something showing that the Wiki is wrong and the results can cover a period from 1 to 29 days?

I would think if they ran a strand test on her we would have heard about it or will hear about it even if the test results were negative, wouldn't we? Like MTR'S pea coat.

Hair drug testing can detect drug use over a much longer period of time,[19] which is often used for highly safety-critical positions where there is zero tolerance of illegal drug use.[20] Standard hair follicle screen covers a period of 30 to 90 days. The growth of hair is usually at the rate of 0.5*inches per month. The hair sample is cut close to the scalp and 80 to 120 strands of hair are needed for the test. In the absence of hair on the head, body hair can be used as an acceptable substitute.[19] Even if the person being tested has a shaved head, hair can also be taken from almost any other area of the body. This includes facial hair, the underarms, arms, and legs or even pubic hair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_te...r_drug_testing

 

[flipflop]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/26/19684426.html

So in here is the wrap up of all the videos. The ones of MR and TLM at the movies doesn't make sense. there is one of a girl in a white coat and what looks to be capris but then there is TLM in her black hoodie was there two different times they went to the movies or are the mixing up the couple that was in front of TLM and MR at the movies..

Any thoughts

I just looked at the pics....looks to me that TLM and MR went to the movies on 2 different occasions....the first she is in her white coat and capris and it is dark outside, the 2nd time she is in a black hoodie and track pants and it is still daylight outside. I think we miss alot, just reading the tweets. JMO