AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 8

[Anita Richman]

I think any break-in, at night, involving a home with little girls, in TUSCON right now, is seriously important, very coincidental and not at all common enough to be deemed unrelated just because there is no word or proof of an attempted kidnap.

I agree. However, it has occurred to me that as we imagine all of the horrific things that may be happening to Isabel (or happened to her); I'm sure the pedophile community is looking at it from a distinctly different perspective. The thrill of this situation might encourage other pedos to act upon their fantasies. :I am going to go wash my hands in bleach after typing that:

 

[Shelby2]

What if the person who took her was obsessed with her like the guy with mental issues who claimed to have taken Jonbenet? I hope the police are questioning everybody that came in contact with this family! Not trying to be snarky, but I can name at least 5 people in my area that I think are a little "off" or "odd." Sounds a little judgemental because I know nothing about these people and maybe they have good reason to be "off" or "odd," lol, just saying that I thought the guy who claimed took Jonbenet was "off" within 2 seconds.... I know this would be very tedious, but somebody knows something - they just don't know it (if that makes sense!)

I don't think it's snarky at all. You should always pay attention to your instincs...could save your life. I have heard SO MANY crime victims say "I thought he was odd but didn't want to be rude" or "He/she gave me a bad feeling but I figured it was silly." It's not.

 

[gitana1]

An attorney - even a criminal defense attorney - can be helpful to victims of crime, even if they are not suspects. The attorneys I work for have been hired by victims of domestic violence, extortion, or even as simple witnesses to crimes that have been subpoenaed to court. There are lots of things an attorney can do for someone, while still keeping the lines of communication open between LE and a person. Sometimes, that person is able to get more information, if the criminal attorney has a good working relationship with local LE. I don't think it's a bad thing that the family hasn't hired an attorney, but it certainly could benefit them. You don't have to wait to be targeted by LE to hire an attorney - there are many things an attorney, even a criminal defense attorney, could do in this situation to help the family without impeding the investigation. A good defense attorney worth his/her salt wouldn't immediately put up a wall between the family and LE, not if there's evidence this was a stranger abduction.

I am aware of that. But in my experience, parents who immediately hire an attorney, especially when there is no indication that the investigation is SOLELY focused on the parents, are hiding something.

There is no case pending so they are not witnesses yet. There are no subpoenas. I think if the investigation begins to stall or the family feels LE is not doing enough, or is not considering vital evidence, maybe then they will need some sort of liason.

But in the early days of something like this, if the parents' thoughts turn quickly to an attorney, my hink goes up and I think that is a logical feeling. There are so many crime victims advocates and missing persons organizations that can help the family of the missing and who do an incredible job.

 

[gitana1]

I agree. However, it has occurred to me that as we imagine all of the horrific things that may be happening to Isabel (or happened to her); I'm sure the pedophile community is looking at it from a distinctly different perspective. The thrill of this situation might encourage other pedos to act upon their fantasies. :I am going to go wash my hands in bleach after typing that:

I totally thought about that!!!!!!! Or more the copy-cat syndrome. Ick!!!!!!!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Looks like NG will cover the Isabel Celis disappearance on her HLN show tonight. It won't be "live", though, because calls are already being taken. From her FB page:

Nancy Grace

4 hours ago.

Missing 6-yr-old girl vanishes from her bedroom: police now say it’s crucial the parents speak out to help keep their daughter Isabel’s disappearance in the public eye. But where are they?

Missing Isabel’s parents still refuse to do media interviews despite police advising them to do so. They have not been seen searching for Isabel or at the command center since their only public appearance last week.

What would you do different if your child was missing?
Taking your on-air questions right now: 877-626-2901

 

[PAXIMUS]

I'm an attorney too and this may anger you, but when I read that parents of a missing child lawyer up right away, I feel they are hiding something. I believe in equal access to the law which is why I do a ton of Legal Aid cases on a volunteer basis. I believe in the right to representation. But when there have been no charges and no indication that LE is unfairly targeting the innocent to the detriment of the investigation, I see no need for an attorney, at the very beginning of the case.



This report makes no sense. A report of three small children who were possibly BEING molested? How about who may have BEEN molested? Being implies an act in progress. If that was the case wouldn't it be, "Report of a shooting. Man found in children's room, possibly assaulting them. Parent shot intruder."????? Or, something like that?

I guess it is just a matter of preference, as a rule I would never counsel anyone to speak to LEO without an attorney present, a lot of innocent people have been imprisoned because they thought they were smart enough to go head to head with trained professional interrogators.

 

[Lava]

I guess it is just a matter of preference, as a rule I would never counsel anyone to speak to LEO without an attorney present, a lot of innocent people have been imprisoned because they thought they were smart enough to go head to head with trained professional interrogators.

My mom drilled this into me and my brother when we were growing up. Maybe thats why I don't judge people who do it either lol.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I am aware of that. But in my experience, parents who immediately hire an attorney, especially when there is no indication that the investigation is SOLELY focused on the parents, are hiding something.

There is no case pending so they are not witnesses yet. There are no subpoenas. I think if the investigation begins to stall or the family feels LE is not doing enough, or is not considering vital evidence, maybe then they will need some sort of liason.

But in the early days of something like this, if the parents' thoughts turn quickly to an attorney, my hink goes up and I think that is a logical feeling. There are so many crime victims advocates and missing persons organizations that can help the family of the missing and who do an incredible job.

Yes but they are also persons of interest and have not been cleared yet so everything they say is being scrutinized by professional interrogators, every single person is going to have some inconsistencies in what they say when they are speaking freely and those inconsistencies, while mostly harmless, can get you in a lot of trouble when LEO is involved, a lot of innocent people have been imprisoned for things like that, for something they had nothing to do with therefore I feel it is always important to have an attorney present when you are speaking to LEO especially if you are a POI. But that is just my opinion, I can understand why yours may differ.

 

[MsFacetious]

I think any break-in, at night, involving a home with little girls, in TUSCON right now, is seriously important, very coincidental and not at all common enough to be deemed unrelated just because there is no word or proof of an attempted kidnap.

There has also been cases where it was reported as a break in, sexual assault of a small child...
Then the man in the house ended up being charged with it and they said there was never a break in.

Remember too... that Elizabeth Smart's cousin was an intended victim of her abductor. As well as another young lady.
He broke into 2 other homes in addition to hers, but was scared off before abducting the girls.
It is certainly reasonable to think that a guy doing it once might do it again. Maybe choosing not to abduct when he finds 3 girls there.

I HOPE it is unrelated for one simple reason.
If he feels the need to find a new victim, then he likely doesn't have the first one anymore. :tears:

 

[Anita Richman]

*Snipped*

I HOPE it is unrelated for one simple reason.
If he feels the need to find a new victim, then he likely doesn't have the first one anymore. :tears:

Oh my. You're right.

I heard on the local news this morning that there's a scheduled presser at 2 p.m. As far as you all know, is that still on?

 

[Lark2]

The reward in this case is $50,000. Could this be a staged abduction for the reward money?

 

[gitana1]

There have been at least two recent cases that come to mind, of pedophiles breaking into homes and molesting children at night. The father of one of those children later shot and killed the alleged perp.

Can't say I'm sad about what the dad did.

Looks like NG will cover the Isabel Celis disappearance on her HLN show tonight. It won't be "live", though, because calls are already being taken. From her FB page:

Nancy Grace

4 hours ago.

Missing 6-yr-old girl vanishes from her bedroom: police now say it’s crucial the parents speak out to help keep their daughter Isabel’s disappearance in the public eye. But where are they?

Missing Isabel’s parents still refuse to do media interviews despite police advising them to do so. They have not been seen searching for Isabel or at the command center since their only public appearance last week.

What would you do different if your child was missing?
Taking your on-air questions right now: 877-626-2901

If it was my kid, I'd be on the news everyday, trying to keep the case in the media so if someone saw anything odd, they'd call in. I'd talk about specific details regarding my child,show pictures, make her human to the kidnapper and the public. I would talk about how my other kids were handling it, how the whole family was dealing with it. I would ask people directly, to report anyone they have noticed was acting oddly or disappeared around the time my kid went missing. That is, I would do all that if I wasn't in the hospital, being given tranquilizers intravaneously.

But I have followed these cases since I was 16 years old. That's a long time!! I have pondered them, researched, etc. Not everyone reacts the same way and it does not necessarily make them guilty. Anyone remember Emmett Trapp? He wandered from home in the AZ heat. He was found after trackers spotted his little footprints. He died after wandering for hours.

The only thing I ever remember his mother saying to the media was to please not report his story. He had not been found yet. I think she was horrified that if reported, it would be all too real. If it was her kid on the news, it would be over.

My point is, there are various reasons why people do not plaster their faces on the news each night when their kid goes missing. Some are incapacitated by fear and grief over their missing child. Some are just not knowledgeable about what to do and why to do it. Some feel guilt or shame about what happened or fear that it will become a circus focused on them and not their baby. I think only the first one is a good excuse but there are many reasons and I don't make too much of it at this point.

Nevertheless, I think it is a terrible mistake not to be more visible. Terrible mistake.

 

[KnicksFan]

Press release from the Pima County Sheriff's office on the three girls:
http://www.pimasheriff.org/bulletin...utm_campaign=pima+county+sheriff's+department

 

[Lava]

Oh my. You're right.

I heard on the local news this morning that there's a scheduled presser at 2 p.m. As far as you all know, is that still on?

BBM- I believe so. Daily 2pm pressers

 

[mck16]

Looks like NG will cover the Isabel Celis disappearance on her HLN show tonight. It won't be "live", though, because calls are already being taken. From her FB page:

Nancy Grace

4 hours ago.

Missing 6-yr-old girl vanishes from her bedroom: police now say it’s crucial the parents speak out to help keep their daughter Isabel’s disappearance in the public eye. But where are they?

Missing Isabel’s parents still refuse to do media interviews despite police advising them to do so. They have not been seen searching for Isabel or at the command center since their only public appearance last week.

What would you do different if your child was missing?
Taking your on-air questions right now: 877-626-2901

It never is really live at the time she is on the air. It is always filmed around 2:00. jmo

 

[SmoothOperator]

Hi I'm CST so wanted to make sure when today's Presser is?

 

[Anita Richman]

Hi I'm CST so wanted to make sure when today's Presser is?

In about 37 minutes.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It never is really live at the time she is on the air. It is always filmed around 2:00. jmo

In the early days of her show, NG was often broadcast "live" (Eastern) because I tried calling in several times and got a busy signal or put on hold :banghead: As the twins get older, NG seems to want to be home to spend more time with them. When there's breaking news after the show has gone to editors, it does seem like NG's info is inaccurate. If there's a major break in the case soon, I think Nancy will do her show "live". :moo:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Links for presser, anyone? TIA

 

[gitana1]

I guess it is just a matter of preference, as a rule I would never counsel anyone to speak to LEO without an attorney present, a lot of innocent people have been imprisoned because they thought they were smart enough to go head to head with trained professional interrogators.

I would not counsel any client or potential client of mine to speak without an attorney either. But what innocent parent would give a da#n what an attorney says at an extreme time of crisis like this?

Let me say this. As a lawyer, I know how anything I do or say can incriminate me. I know that well. But, if I was an innocent parent of a missing child, I would submit to LDTs, DNA samples, sign waivers for searches, be questioned for hours and hours, days and days, weeks and weeks, without counsel - all things I would strongly urge my clients NOT to do. Why? Because as an attorney, my job is mostly to protect my clients from possible legal repercussions. As a PARENT, my job is to find my baby.

Any parent whose thoughts are not about doing whatever it takes to eliminate themselves as a possible suspect so the investigation can focus on finding their kid, raises my hink in a serious way. If it was my kid, I wouldn't give a darn about the possibility of being charged. All I would think about, the only think that would be looping through my head is rescuing my baby.

Now, I can certainly understand a parent hiring counsel if it is clear the investigation has veered to solely and unfairly concentrating on them to the exclusion of other options, because in that case, it's too late to do everything LE wants so as to eliminate themselves as suspects. But until then, especially in the beginning, I would trust that LE is trying to save my kid. I'd do whatever they wanted without a thought of legal counsel.

But I suppose this discussion is premature in this case. There is no indication that the family lawyered up right away or have failed to cooperate in any way.