17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[katydid23]

I was actually in an ER been when I was online, not in the waiting room. I get what you are saying, but I kind of did that too. I never posted that I was in the ER on my Facebook, didn't want anyone coming there or worrying.

I don't know if Crump is telling the truth or not, but I believe it's irrelevant to the case, and in the end, won't matter either way.

No, it is not necessarily relevant. But if it is shown that Crump played fast and loose with the facts, and manufactured an embellished fairy tale to get the media behind him, that would be of major importance, imo.

 

[suzihawk]

Unless she is unable to testify. I don't think she will ever take the stand.

<modsnip> I think I'm clear on your position.

 

[katydid23]

So, I guess the theory that she charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder to get re-elected is out the window. She has already been re-elected.

I said from the beginning...Zimmerman will take a plea. JMO

Nope, the theory is more about her long term future political plans. Guess we will have to wait and see if those happen or not.

She did not get this case by rotation, she was GIVEN the case by the governor.

 

[vlpate]

and I do think it's pretty horrible to repeat something that is clearly contrary to the ACTUAL quotes I furnished without some pretty strong evidence that he actually said it and it's not just some third hand story like from the old police chief or something who has said other untrue things.

The video from ABC has been taken down, but I found this one. If you find the Police Chief third hand information, so be it. I don't know why he would lie about a man who has lost his son. I don't even have words for how ludicrous that is.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEBgTkJXzQ0&feature=related"]Trayvon's Murder: Voice Not Son's says Father, Tracy Martin - YouTube[/ame]

So, he WAS a bouncer-Trayvon was not and had no training for fighting that I'm aware of. one doesn't just know how to fight. I don't, my teenage boys don't. GZ clearly had repeated physical encounters that we KNOW of and who knows what else? Trayvon was a 13/14 yr old football player-you really think that's relevant-he played football with other little kids his own age...so did my kids, they still don't know how to fight. Football and being a bouncer and someone who attacked an ATF agent and his "ex-how" are rather different things IMO.

Trayvon's ex-coach said he was an athlete, as have his parents. Being a bouncer does not require training, just girth.

Yes, one expert said it WAS Trayvon and one said it WASN'T George. There's a whole article about it at the link I provided:
The first expert used biometric analysis to exclude GZ from being the person screaming:
The other expert uses his ears:

BEM: Well that should certainly stand up in court. Neither of them stated definitively that it was Trayvon on the tape. I feel silly even debating these two. We'll just have to agree to disagree

By the way, "Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence" owns the board....and they have a very enlightening facebook page.

 

[AngelWings444]

No, it is not necessarily relevant. But if it is shown that Crump played fast and loose with the facts, and manufactured an embellished fairy tale to get the media behind him, that would be of major importance, imo.

I don't think it's as important as you make it out to be, if we are only talking about whether the GF sought medical treatment or not? Crump is the attorney for the Martin's, potentially for a civil trial. He is not involved in the criminal trial.

I think the manufactured, embellished, fairy tale stories, from the friends and family of GZ will be of major importance. They don't seem credible. Their need for media attention was deplorable, and didn't help GZ.

JMO, IMO

 

[suzihawk]

That's not hard for me to believe. I'll be the first one to say that Trayvon Martin should not be dead today.

I think Zimmerman should have returned to his car when the dispatcher told him, "we don't need you to do that".

That said, I can't jump to assumptions about what REALLY happened after that. I need more evidence - Trayvon's autopsy report, for one. If Trayvon had been shot in the back, my mind would probably be made up and it would take a LOT to sway me otherwise. I want to hear some SWORN witness testimonies. I want to compare the stories v. what the physical evidence tells us.

I understand the passionate feelings on both sides. For me, I know that no matter what - right or wrong - good law vs. bad law - the extremely liberal FL SYG laws are still the big issue here.

Don't we all!

 

[suzihawk]

She was re elected after he was charged IMO She got the votes she was after.

She ran her whole campaign based on this case in about a month? This case didn't come to the public's attention until late March.

 

[Just K]

he was NOT in the car! He explicitly told the operator he was pursuing trayvon! If Trayvon was circling his car (initially) WHY on earth would Zimmerman THEN get out and pursue him? If this was the case.. well there goes the SYG defense for George!
Either way George is a liar.

She was re elected after he was charged IMO She got the votes she was after.

That doesn't bode well for the Defense. She is a Republican and she ran unopposed. Seems that the citizens of Florida might appreciate her point of view. (Prosecution) If the republicans back her then maybe they aren't all that happy with vigilantes and the SYG.

 

[mikeysmommom]

That doesn't bode well for the Defense. She is a Republican and she ran unopposed. Seems that the citizens of Florida might appreciate her point of view. (Prosecution) If the republicans back her thaen maybe they aren't all that happy with vigilantes and the SYG.

IMO I wonder why the people of FL did not oppose CYG before it became a law.IMO That is when it should have been fought for being to broad.

ETA Seems people were not too happy with her before GZ case.IIRC Where she has an abused child serving a hefty sentence where it seems its his mom who did not get his brother medical attention so he died.Sorry I can not recall his name.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think it's as important as you make it out to be, if we are only talking about whether the GF sought medical treatment or not? Crump is the attorney for the Martin's, potentially for a civil trial. He is not involved in the criminal trial.

I think the manufactured, embellished, fairy tale stories, from the friends and family of GZ will be of major importance. They don't seem credible. Their need for media attention was deplorable, and didn't help GZ.

JMO, IMO

I am not on the jury, but it made a HUGE impact upon me. Because it has made me look at everything coming out of their camp with a big grain of salt.

 

[ynotdivein]

Stand Your Ground law discussion [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170730"]here[/ame]:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170730"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170730[/ame]

 

[suzihawk]

okay, then never mind. If you think that Trayvon was targeted for racial reasons, we will never agree. That's okay with me. Peace. And I mean that sincerely

It's okay by me, too. Bygones.

 

[vlpate]

he was NOT in the car! He explicitly told the operator he was pursuing trayvon! If Trayvon was circling his car (initially) WHY on earth would Zimmerman THEN get out and pursue him? If this was the case.. well there goes the SYG defense for George!
Either way George is a liar.

If he was circling Zimmerman's car, I would say Trayvon was the aggressor, that would certainly concern me and make me feel threatened. I'd be petrified even more at what he might do to someone in the community when he took off running. I'd have to follow and at least keep an eye on where he was going.

Why in the world would he be circling his car if he just wanted to get home with his skittles?

 

[mommakk51]

Source: Zimmerman says Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-03/news/os-trayvon-martin-circles-george-zimmerman-20120503_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-source-police-department


Why didn't George call 911 instead of non-emergency if he was frightened? And why not tell the dispatcher what was happening? Because it didn't happen?

:moo:

I don't believe we have heard the whole, authentic version of the 911 call yet. What we have heard is bits and pieces of it, selectively edited by the MSM. IMO, you could sense fear in GZ's voice at the point in the call when he was telling them that TM was coming to check him out.

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[AngelWings444]

If he was circling Zimmerman's car, I would say Trayvon was the aggressor, that would certainly concern me and make me feel threatened. I'd be petrified even more at what he might do to someone in the community when he took off running. I'd have to follow and at least keep an eye on where he was going.

Why in the world would he be circling his car if he just wanted to get home with his skittles?

Why wouldn't GZ state this on the non-emergency tape? We clearly hear him get out of his car. If he had already hung up from non-emergency call he made, why wouldn't he immediately dial 911? He had done it many times in the past.

I think one of the problems GZ has, it that he did make this statement over and over again, not realizing he was recorded, and certainly didn't realize Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend.

To me, it doesn't make any sense, and I don't believe it for one minute. If someone is in fear for their life, they do not chase after the aggressor.

JMO, IMO :moo::moo:

 

[suzier]

Personal note: I was mugged (strong arm robbed). I had my purse on my shoulder pretty close to my body and the guy was walking toward me. As he got close, there was an unmistakable look in his eye and in a split second I knew what he was going to do. He hooked his arm through the strap on my purse. By instinct I pulled my arms in toward my body in protection mode which automatically made me clutch my purse closer. He slung me around like a yo yo. I was holding on to that purse for dear life. Not because of the belongings but because my adrenalin was flowing to the max. The cops asked me later why I held on to that purse and didn't just give it up. It wasn't a conscious thought, I just did. Adrenalin.

Suzihawk, I couldn't help but chuckle over our kindredness! I, too, was once mugged. After I was thrown down several times the guy grabbed the large part of my purse. I wouldn't let go. The police measured where I was drug for 14 feet before the purse strap broke. Astoundingly enough I jumped up and ran after the guy swinging the strap.

I only ran a few steps when the Adrenalin started to subside. Once that happened rational thought returned and I realized I was chasing a person that had beaten me up. I went back to my apartment and called the police.

Adrenalin is undoubtedly the most powerful and strongest of all drugs (IMHO).

We even have the same name and I agree with your comments!

 

[mommakk51]

I blame the media frenzy on the SPD fuster cluck. Not on Crump, AS or JJ or anyone else. If they had done their due diligence, there wouldn't have been the need for the massive call to justice and the media (or us) wouldn't be talking about it today. I believe the SPD is racist and corrupt up to their collective red necks and they thought the shooting of a black kid was no biggie and would primarily go unnoticed and unchallenged. Although I'm not convinced that Zimmerman's father has/had any real pull, I think the SPD weighed the dead black kid against the son of a magistrate judge, who was a known community member as opposed to Trayvon, and it was a no brainer to them not to charge Zimmerman. When the media got involved people were good and pizzed.

I believe that Trayvon was targeted by Zimmerman because he was a young black man. Whether that's because of the previous robberies or because he's a racist, or he had some sort of need to be a hero or all of the above, (which I personally believe) remains to be seen.

My bottom line is I think Trayvon was defending himself against Zimmerman when he was shot.

GZ did not know Trayvon was black when he first spotted him, he said he thought he was black and then later confirmed that he WAS. That has been well established already by the 911 tapes.

I do believe that race is a factor in all this, but not on GZ's part. It should all tie in with the Collinson case, and how SPD and the SA office chose to give preferential treatment to some, but not to others. GZ had already tried to have this taken care of, but he did not prevail. And now, by some strange twist of fate, he finds himself right smack in the middle of something that is going to blow that mess wide open down there. JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff.

 

[highflyer]

GZ did not know Trayvon was black when he first spotted him, he said he thought he was black and then later confirmed that he WAS. That has been well established already by the 911 tapes.

I do believe that race is a factor in all this, but not on GZ's part. It should all tie in with the Collinson case, and how SPD and the SA office chose to give preferential treatment to some, but not to others. GZ had already tried to have this taken care of, but he did not prevail. And now, by some strange twist of fate, he finds himself right smack in the middle of something that is going to blow that mess wide open down there. JMO-IMO-IMHO-MOO 'n stuff.

No, George says "He looks black"

 

[mommakk51]

No, George says "He looks black"

Yes, but he said it as if he was not really sure. And then later, when he got a better look, he confirmed that he was black.:moo:

 

[vlpate]

No, George says "He looks black"

Thought he was black, looks black, seems no difference - both mean he wasn't sure at that point.