IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[SapphireSteel]

Sure. Cases that come immediately to mind are Kyron Horman and Sierra LaMar.

In the Kyron Horman case, Kaine Horman and Desiree Horman both said very early on that they took polygraphs and were told they passed. I don't know who administered them but the FBI was called in very early, just as in this case.

In the Sierra LaMar case, Marlene LaMar and Rick Gardiner (her BF), said early on that they'd taken polygraphs and passed. Again, I don't know who administered them but the FBI was called in very early.

I cannot remember reading a case under investigation where LE came out and said whether someone passed, failed or got an inconclusive on their polygraph. Once the case has been solved (with conviction), it can come out but before a conviction, there may be rumours but nothing directly from LE.

Kyron hasn't been found so I won't count that example, sorry.

Sierra - interesting, I will look into that. I know there was a HEAP of speculation especially about her mum at the time.

Perhaps I should rephrase and say, the FBI aren't in the habit of disclosing results. Not now, not then, not ever. It's obvious from the local Sherrifs fumbling and stumbling, just how much they've shared, even with other LE.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I just remembered a case where LE told their chief suspect repeatedly that he had gotten an inconclusive: Amber DuBois's stepfather. They kept teling him they knew he'd done it because he was not passing his multiple polygraphs.

Also, Steve Groene was told by LE that he had failed one or more questions on his polygraph. Again, it was used as a pressure tactic to try to get a confession.

Neither man was guilty of doing anything more than not scoring well on a device that is woo-woo science at best.

But they didn't say "you've passed" like this parent is claiming?

Either way, this brings up a really good point - LE are quite capable of lying to her, telling her she's passed, if they think it will loosen her up and make her talk.

I should've thought of that...thanks for reminding me.

 

[Sere-nity]

Where does Tammy live? Only ask because it doesn't appear on the map and I am trying to estimate timings.

 

[Soulmagent]

I just remembered a case where LE told their chief suspect repeatedly that he had gotten an inconclusive: Amber DuBois's stepfather. They kept teling him they knew he'd done it because he was not passing his multiple polygraphs.

Also, Steve Groene was told by LE that he had failed one or more questions on his polygraph. Again, it was used as a pressure tactic to try to get a confession.

Neither man was guilty of doing anything more than not scoring well on a device that is woo-woo science at best.

Breeann Rodriguez's father was told he failed the test as well.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Breeann Rodriguez's father was told he failed the test as well.

Again, different...this lady is claiming she was told she PASSED.

But I just argued myself out of it anyway.

Knowing LE as I do, they will pretty much say anything if they think it's going to get someone talking...so ignore everything I just said.

:banghead:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Kyron hasn't been found so I won't count that example, sorry.

Sierra - interesting, I will look into that. I know there was a HEAP of speculation especially about her mum at the time.

Perhaps I should rephrase and say, the FBI aren't in the habit of disclosing results. Not now, not then, not ever. It's obvious from the local Sherrifs fumbling and stumbling, just how much they've shared, even with other LE.

In the Horman case, it would be almost impossible for either Kaine or Desiree to have done the deed. Kaine arrived at work at a time that precluded his being able to be anywhere near Skyline School; Desiree was at work a little later in the morning but that workplace was located 6 hours by automobile away.

It's pretty easy to see that neither of them could have been directly responsible for Kyron's disappearance and it's highly unlikely they would have colluded in causing him to disappear.

Also, check out the Steven Hatfill investigation. You name a sleazy investigation tactic and the FBI used it against Steven Hatfill. Up to and including making him unemployable in his own field of research.

The FBI is often highly professional and conducts themselves impeccably. On more than one occasion, they have demonstrated that they don't let professionalism get in the way of being the sort of sleazy investigators that are the reason why defence lawyers are the best guardians of constitutional rights in existence.

In fact, the FBI is involved in a highly embarrassing (to them) review of literally thousands of cases for possibly flawed forensic evidence. There's good reason to believe the FBI has known for years they had serious problems in forensic testing but did nothing about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...nds-of-cases/2012/07/10/gJQAT6DlbW_story.html

 

[jacy]

Sorry. I should have noticed the U.k. I get it now!!

Especially since you are Strawberry Fields! (Your name actually led to a nice discussion with my son about Beatles' tunes.)

 

[nikb]

Family is sacrosanct until MSM and LE say otherwise. We dont add to their grief by picking them apart. The same holds true for the witnesses who have come forward. Witnesses will fill in the brushstrokes for LE and they are needed desperately in this case. Everyone, imo, should remember Roy Kronk from the Caylee Anthony case. Look what happened to the man when all he did was find her.

Agreed. I know I'd be scared to come forward at this point unless I KNEW I had something that would help.

Slightly OT but sharing a personal experience and maybe what some of the potential witnesses are thinking? The other night I was at a grocery store and the cashier was terrified because it was shortly before closing and she'd heard two other grocery stores up the street had just been robbed at gunpoint right before they closed. The store I was at closed an hour later than those two stores. She said "all we know is it's a white Acura."

I'd parked kind of far away from the main door by accident (didn't know they locked those other doors at a certain time) so I was nervous but not too bad til I got to my car and wouldn't you know it? There were maybe 20 cars in the lot, all except two were close to the unlocked doors... one was mine, the other was a white Acura. Heavily tinted windows and two guys sitting in it looking around (facing my car so I saw through the windshield, the windows were way too tinted to see anything from the side). I got out of there ASAP and when I got home asked my husband if he thought I should call the cops given nothing had really happened? My gut was stay out of it unless I find out someone was killed or something... husband said the exact same thing. THANKFULLY the whole thing was some kind of sick (IMO) hoax to scare the store employees and there were no grocery store robberies that night after all... but geez.

It got me thinking. Would I come forward? If so, right away? If it wasn't right away, would I be scared that coming forward later would make me seem suspicious?

 

[Soulmagent]

Again, different...this lady is claiming she was told she PASSED.

But I just argued myself out of it anyway.

Knowing LE as I do, they will pretty much say anything if they think it's going to get someone talking...so ignore everything I just said.

:banghead:

I think it is possible she could have been told this.

My thinking on this is telling someone the failed may aide in an investigation, then telling someone they passed could also be useful. JMO.

No matter what the results are of the test it is still used as a tool.

 

[palaminodee]

Where does Tammy live? Only ask because it doesn't appear on the map and I am trying to estimate timings.

I agree,
also for the scanner site with calls it would be helpful to know

Maybe a local knows?

 

[IAM]

My take on LE telling Misty she passed the LDT (if they actually told her this).
First I doubt the word "passed" was used. "You did fine" in answer to her asking how she did would be more plausible. This could very well mean nothing more than telling her she answered all of the questions and the test was now complete. NOT, you are not guilty you passed, A+ bravo, here is your certificate. Or, NO, you flunked, you are guilty, we suspect you! I think, "you did fine" would be the appropriate and most likely response.

 

[elmomom]

In the Horman case, it would be almost impossible for either Kaine or Desiree to have done the deed. Kaine arrived at work at a time that precluded his being able to be anywhere near Skyline School; Desiree was at work a little later in the morning but that workplace was located 6 hours by automobile away.

It's pretty easy to see that neither of them could have been directly responsible for Kyron's disappearance and it's highly unlikely they would have colluded in causing him to disappear.

Also, check out the Steven Hatfill investigation. You name a sleazy investigation tactic and the FBI used it against Steven Hatfill. Up to and including making him unemployable in his own field of research.

The FBI is often highly professional and conducts themselves impeccably. On more than one occasion, they have demonstrated that they don't let professionalism get in the way of being the sort of sleazy investigators that are the reason why defence lawyers are the best guardians of constitutional rights in existence.

In fact, the FBI is involved in a highly embarrassing (to them) review of literally thousands of cases for possibly flawed forensic evidence. There's good reason to believe the FBI has known for years they had serious problems in forensic testing but did nothing about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...nds-of-cases/2012/07/10/gJQAT6DlbW_story.html

Just want to add that the FBI has repeatedly been questioned on their conclusion of Bivins' guilt in the same case that they harangued Hatfill. I know plenty of folks close to the players, and I am convinced as many scientists are, that Bivins, who committed suicide, was not the guy behind the Anthrax. I lost all respect for the FBI after the Olympic Bomber and Anthrax cases. All respect.

 

[sweetdreams]

Dan is facing 5 counts that each carry a 45-year prison term. He is in deep, deep doo-doo. So if he pled guilty to get that reduced, and flipped on people, I can see them being mad enough to do harm to those closest to him.

This is the most thorough article I have seen on their criminal backgrounds. (Not accusing them of being involved! Just for the record!) --
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...of-involvement-Lyric-Cooks-disappearance.html

Which is why I believe the parents were so quick to call the police when LCM was a few minutes late, a few days before she actually went missing. The mom panicked because the fear of that happening might have been in the back of her mind. I have posted several times here, that I don't think it is a coincidence that the police were called so quickly only days before!

 

[Jules71]

From NG transcripts

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I left for work. At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them. They`d been on a bike ride, and you know, to come directly to Heather`s home. I only work just up the street. I came directly there.

My mom had been driving around looking for them. We stood in the yard and talked for a few minutes. Heather pulled up, had not been able to find them. It was about 2:20, 2:30 PM. And so Heather said, I`m going to the police station. And that`s when she went to the Evansdale PD to involve them.

Tammy
When Mom -- I had met Mom at her house because we had had some plans. She had originally left. When Misty showed up to pick up Lyric, and Mom said, you know, The girls have been off and it`s been a little bit too long, but you know, you guys need to go find your kids, Tammy and I have some other things that we`re doing, and Tammy`s at the house.

So Mom came and got me. We got a phone call back from Drew (ph), Elizabeth`s father, saying, You guys need to get back here and help. So me and Mom jumped in the car, and right away we came back. Kelly -- we picked up Kelly, the 12-year-old son, and we started going to all these places that they`d already checked.

I said immediately to my mom, I said, Take me to Meyers Lake, take me to Meyers Lake. This is approximately a quarter to 2:00 when I asked -- or a quarter to 3:00 when I asked Mom to take me to Meyers Lake.

Snipped and BBM. I do not understand what Tammy is saying here. Is she saying she went to Grandma's house in Waterloo to meet her because they had plans and Grandma was not there - and then Grandma left Heather's (and searching for the girls) and drove to Waterloo to meet Tammy so they could do whatever they had plans to do - and then Drew called them and said to get back there and help look? Does Aunt Tammy not have a car either? Where does she live?

 

[Mimiof8]

from ng transcript

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I thought Lyric didn't have a phone, how's she going to text Missy?

 

[CHERIE.T]

from ng transcript

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I thought Lyric didn't have a phone, how's she going to text Missy?

hummm:waitasec: excellent question.

 

[southern_comfort]

from ng transcript

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I thought Lyric didn't have a phone, how's she going to text Missy?

I think the story is that she had a phone, but left it behind at grandma's.


NG transcript:

GRACE: Did Lyric have a cell phone?

COOK-MORRISSEY: She has a cell phone that was at my mother`s, so she didn`t have one on her, no.​

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[jacy]

From NG transcripts

COOK-MORRISSEY: At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them.

Tammy
When Misty showed up to pick up Lyric, and Mom said, you know, The girls have been off and it`s been a little bit too long, but you know, you guys need to go find your kids, Tammy and I have some other things that we`re doing, and Tammy`s at the house.

SBM
Please feel free to tell me I'm confused and to go take a nap, but do these two statements regarding Misty's arrival match up in some other context? As I read it now, Misty says she was called by her mother because Lyric is not home; Tammy says she(MCM) showed up almost as per usual to pick up Lyric.

 

[GGE]

from ng transcript

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I thought Lyric didn't have a phone, how's she going to text Missy?

I have to hope the "non-working" phone the girls were said to have with them in their purple purse was only SAID to be non-working by LE in hopes the girls still had it and the perps wouldn't think to take it, since they'd assume it doesn't work.

If this is so, perhaps the evidence they have which assures them the girls are alive has something to do with this. Have they definitely recovered the cell phone?

Otherwise, perhaps she meant a text/message via facebook (do they call those "texts" though?) or else I do know some web-based messenger programs can send messages to cellphones as texts..

just some thoughts, though sadly probably far-fetched.

edit - per quote from NG show above, I guess these thoughts are out - it would seem the phone was left behind at grandma's.

 

[Jules71]

Right! So did Grandma call Misty at work and tell her she couldn't find the girls as Misty states? Or did Misty show up (at Heather's or Grandma's) to pick up Lyric and Grandma said 'the girls have been off and it`s been a little bit too long, but you know, you guys need to go find your kids' as Tammy states?

Or is it both - she called her at work and told her and then Misty came over to the house (Heather's) and she told her to go find them - and then Grandma left because she had plans with Tammy and Tammy was waiting for her (at Grandma's house)?

ETA: In reply to Jacy (meant to quote your post)