Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #81

[katiedid2]

I wonder if she has been reading the dictionary while in jail or if she has always used such unnecessary words to appear intelligent while coming across as pretentious.

Would be hilarious if the jury used all those words when pronouncing her guilty.

 

[SCSam]

The question in my mind is "how many lies does JM have to track down and prove before the exercise becomes redundant?" We know that if JA is caught in just ONE lie her entire testimony becomes suspect.
Debunking all the JA lies might be overkill -although that demonstration would be intensely interesting to the viewing audience.

There is obviously a calculus figuring in JM approach. Proving convincingly that JA is a liar on some issues - particularly regarding premeditation - gets him closer to the 1st degree murder conviction. The defense is obviously presenting material aimed towards "mitigation" EVEN before the verdict. Taking the time and effort to impeach all of her lies might get JM closer to a death sentence??????

I think proving the lies re the gas cans is much more than just proving she lied.. me thinks is goes to premeditation.

 

[jojomonkey]

I don't know what brought this on.

Hmmm, I wonder why we can't see her answers to him? Is this something Juan is holding back?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Agree completely. Just piggybacking on what you say above, there is also the sense that because he sent her angry texts he would NEVER let her in his home/bed. Which, of course, is payently absurd, as plenty of prople have sex with their exes. But here there is no allowing for the full range of human nuance and complexity.

We are talking 13 hours worth of Jodi, not just letting her in the door.
Are you forgetting they had a regular PHOTO SHOOT ! In bed, tied up, after sex, schoolgirl , in between sex, in his office, over the desk, angry, not angry, yelling, not yelling,--Eh! think that's a little more than just letting an ex in to have SEX!

13 hours is a LOOOOONG time, don't you think?

 

[Arishia]

Are we sure JA didn't respond to any of those? I'm confused why TA would write 'I don't want your apology' if she didn't apologize?
I'm not sure at the moment. Would have to rummage for other texts etc. Probably don't have them, but maybe someone does. Anyone?

 

[geevee]

Poor Jodi, it makes more sense to measure it out in the bedroom using the bed to get a clue as to how much would be needed, and not the bathroom. Jodi had to have a explanation of why a knife was in the bathroom. If measured out in the bedroom the knife would of been placed on the dresser or nightstand.

I also think she thought she needed to get those pesky little fibers into the hallway in some JA-logic fashion so they stretched it out along the hall and he cut it for her hand nooses. Nooses? That about cracked me up.

Sorry for just jumping in on my very first post (thanks for admitting me!), I have been practically consumed by this case - and I didn't even know anything about it until she was on the stand a day away from JM's cross examination. I caught up on YouTube and studied the pics pretty carefully and have some thougths about them, but I'll try to catch up on the rest of the thread before going into my thoughts.

 

[SCSam]

Would be hilarious if the jury used all those words when pronouncing her guilty.

Exactly what WAS on JA's reading list since 2008??

 

[Schuby]

Could someone help to set me straight on something? I was thinking I had read in a previous post here that Travis had been making plans to go visit Jodi after her move to California, which seemed to indicate he was still interested in maintaining some sort of relationship with her. Do we know that was confirmed to be true?

On the other hand, I'm thinking that I remember that in the phone recording (I think?) she mentioned him coming to visit her, but Travis did not respond, i.e., did not voice agreement with her. I got the impression from this that his visiting her was all JA's idea and that he had no such plans. TIA for helping clear up my confusion.

They discussed him visiting her in the May recording, and actually, he sounded quite enthused, but obviously things changed.

 

[audreyparker]

Keep in mind Mormonattorney's wonderful post exploring the world of parents of sociopathic and/or psychopathic children.

I am a parent of a sociopath as Mormonattorney describes. I would like you to know that after years of struggling, you become somewhat numb yourself. There is shame you feel that somehow this violent person is the result of some mistake you made. My son (the one who is now deceased) was literally born that way--crying and crying, refusing the breast, inconsolable, angry. After he cried once for ten straight hours, I took him to the doctor (this was in the sixties). The doctor offered to enlarge his urethra, thinking he might be in pain. I declined that as just a stab in the dark. Nobody knew what was wrong with him.

By three years old he overturned furniture, pulled drawers out and turned them upside down, climbed on the kitchen counter and threw cans down...By five he was taking kitchen knives and stabbing boxes in the garage. By eight he stabbed his brother by dropping an "arrow" on his little brother's back in the bathtub to see the blood go in the water. He had fashioned this arrow from a chandelier (since I had long before removed knives from the kitchen). I was terrified--the house was full of children who were all vulnerable.

When he was six, I took him to a prominent child psychiatrist at Stanford. He said my son was the most violent child he had ever analyzed and he warned me that he would probably be institutionalized by the time he was ten. I suffered from hyper-vigilance, never knowing a good night's sleep.

He was brilliant, model-level handsome and grew to be six foot four. Violence was his entertainment. Other people suffering was hilarious to him, including mine.

I felt shame and never told anybody about most of the incidents. As he became more dangerous, I called police. I called my Mormon bishop. I sought professional help. The police didn't take me seriously--and there is nothing to be done. No help other than sending him to a school for deviant boys, which we did. It didn't help either.

This is a nightmare for parents. My husband left--it was just too much, leaving me to raise seven children alone. I did my best, but wasn't very available emotionally for the other children and they have suffered as a result.

The sociopath can be showed the evidence plain as day, the parent saying, "I found this marijuana in your room under your mattress," and the child shrugs and says, "It's not mine. I don't know how it got there. Are there any more muffins?"

My child was so charming and so charismatic that he even convinced a social worker that I was mentally ill and persecuting him. I had to present documents from previous admissions, psychiatric treatment to prove I deserved more credibility than the psychopathic teenager!

Mormonattorney describes exactly the cool willingness a parent must have to patiently sit through the lies and wait for the break. I am awed with admiration that she chooses to work with these difficult and unrewarding sociopathic children.

I also saw flashes of the manipulative child Jodi Arias and I don't judge her mother or aunt. You have called everyone. You have done everything. Your child has stolen your car, climbed out windows, pawned your wedding ring, sold your skis, and broken your heart--all with a shrug. There is a gallows humor that helps you survive when you have been through hell raising a hellion. For all you know, they are whispering, "This reminds me of the time she told that ridiculous story about a ninja stealing the car she took."

The mother and the aunt see their child getting what she deserves. She is being publicly humiliated by her manipulations and lying not working. It is a form of justice for them, too, you know. They always said she would end up in jail. Their behavior is not classy, of course, but they have barred her from their home and distanced themselves from her for years. They may also have the genes for sociopathy. She is the classic "bad seed" and if they can benefit in any way from her celebrity, in their view, she owes them.

Unfortunately, to the sociopath, notoriety and celebrity are the same. It is attention, which she can't get by working hard and succeeding because that would be bowing to authority. In her mind, being the most important prisoner is better than being a nobody waiting tables in Yreka.

Which is why I want her on death row, where there is no opportunity to strut and be Queen of the Scene.

This is an amazing post. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. It must have been so terrifying for you and your family.

Based on what you describe, JA sounds a lot like this. She lies so calmly on the stand repeatedly and then when JM catches her in a lie, she just can't admit it, but she stays so calm! I have no doubt she could be very persuasive when she needed to be and I'm sure that decent people who had never dealt with someone like her had no idea what they were dealing with (like Travis). I think she was very apologetic and charming the day she murdered him and she persuaded him to have sex one last time so she could get him in a vulnerable position that made it easier to kill him.

She planned this and she feels justified in murdering him. I think that's another reason why she's so convinced that everyone will fall for this whole self-defense thing - because she thinks what she did was okay and totally justified in her mind. He hurt her, he didn't want her no matter what she did or who she pretended she was, and she wasn't going to stand for it.

 

[Arishia]

Hmmm, I wonder why we can't see her answers to him? Is this something Juan is holding back?

Not sure atm. You could re-watch the trial on the days the texts were brought in.

 

[LolaBaby3]

I hope each one of his siblings recite quotes from Travis' last text to Jodi at sentencing. Travis knew what kind of awful evil (I won't even add person as I believe she is not even human) she was. He spelled it out for her in that text. She needs to be reminded of his words over and over again!

 

[rose222]

A number of interesting tidbits regarding the Wendi Andriano case.

1. The medical examiner determined that Joe sustained brain hemorrhaging caused by no fewer than twenty-three blows to the back of his head, eight to ten of which independently could have rendered Joe unconscious.   Defensive wounds on Joe's hands and wrists indicated, however, that he was conscious for at least part of the attack.   Joe also sustained a 3 and 3/4-inch-long by 2-inch-wide stab wound to the left side of his neck that extended to his spine and severed his carotid artery.   The medical examiner opined that the blows to the head were sustained before the stab wound to the neck and that Joe was still alive, although likely unconscious, when he was stabbed.

2. Andriano was indicted on one count of first degree murder. The State further alleged that the offense was a dangerous felony, see id.   § 13-604(P), because it “involved the intentional or knowing infliction of serious physical injury upon Joseph Andriano.”

3. At trial, Andriano testified that after a failed assisted suicide attempt by poison, she and Joe got into a fight, during which she hit Joe with a bar stool in self-defense.   She claimed that he ultimately slit his own throat.   The jury found Andriano guilty of first degree murder and further found that the murder was a dangerous felony.

4. The jury was instructed on self-defense and told that if it found Andriano to be a domestic violence victim, “the state of mind of a reasonable person ․ shall be determined from the perspective of a reasonable person who has been a victim of those past acts of domestic violence.”

5. We held in State v. Celaya that “where the sole defense is self-defense so that the evidence requires either conviction or acquittal, any instruction on any other grade would be impermissible.”  135 Ariz. 248, 255, 660 P.2d 849, 856 (1983);  see also State v. Wall, 212 Ariz. 1, 6, ¶ 29, 126 P.3d 148, 153 (2006) (noting that when defendant asserts an “all-or-nothing” defense, the record usually will not support the giving of a lesser-included offense instruction.

6. Near the end of the second day of penalty phase deliberations, the jury submitted the following question to the trial court:  “If we are unable to reach an unanimous verdict, what is the procedure that will be followed?”  

7. Mitigation . Andriano presented several mitigating circumstances for the jury's consideration, including the stress of Joe's cancer, her good grades in school, missionary and community work, and strong religious convictions.   In addition, she presented evidence that she was a sexual abuse and domestic violence victim, a good mother to two children, married for six years, and a good inmate.Although Andriano presented some evidence that she was a domestic violence victim, we assign little weight to this mitigating circumstance, in part because it is not related to the murder.


Sorry it's so long. I found it interesting.

 

[Schuby]

We are talking 13 hours worth of Jodi, not just letting her in the door.
Are you forgetting they had a regular PHOTO SHOOT ! In bed, tied up, after sex, schoolgirl , in between sex, in his office, over the desk, angry, not angry, yelling, not yelling,--Eh! think that's a little more than just letting an ex in to have SEX!

13 hours is a LOOOOONG time, don't you think?

13 minutes of Jodi is too long as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not banging her, he was.

 

[neesaki]

Do you think this jury is assessing Juan? Or the defendant?

I think Juan and the jurors are on the same page. Many of their questions reflect HIS style in both tone and sarcasm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And if I were on that jury, I would consider JA's behavior condescending and offensive. With every repeated lie she tells, she's saying to them that she thinks they're just a bunch of stupid fools that can't see through her transparent BS.

 

[KMouse]

We are talking 13 hours worth of Jodi, not just letting her in the door.
Are you forgetting they had a regular PHOTO SHOOT ! In bed, tied up, after sex, schoolgirl , in between sex, in his office, over the desk, angry, not angry, yelling, not yelling,--Eh! think that's a little more than just letting an ex in to have SEX!

13 hours is a LOOOOONG time, don't you think?

Who said they had tied up sex? Who said they had office sex?

 

[SCSam]

I agree.
Let me be lame and copy+paste my theory


I think she seduced him on june 4th. And I think Travis never really thought Jodi Arias was dangerous. She had no criminal record, no past behaviour of harming people. He wanted her for sex and other stuff on june 4th and paid no mind to his previous concerns regarding her.

IMO.

I've also wondered if she convinced him "just one last time".... really meaning it.

 

[neesaki]

They discussed him visiting her in the May recording, and actually, he sounded quite enthused, but obviously things changed.

Wow, not as I remembered, must be my brain fog setting in, :giggle:

 

[Only4Justice]

Can you serve on a trial if you have been a victim in a case that went to trial?

I'm a little late to the boards and someone has probably answered this....but in my experience, I have been called to jury duty many times, and because my father was killed in a car accident, I am always dismissed if the case has anything to do with cars and accidents.

FWIW

 

[Nali87]

I've also wondered if she convinced him "just one last time".... really meaning it.

Yeah, exactly! And we know how hot he thought the sex with her was so I don't think she had too much of a hard time convincing him for some fun. For "one last time".

 

[Schuby]

Wow, not as I remembered, must be my brain fog setting in, :giggle:

It was to be a leg on his larger trip to WA to see friends there.