Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[Obsessor]

"Having fun with your companion? Hope you're not putting any seats down in the back of snowy ???"

MOO/IMO This is a heartbreaking insight into how the trust had been destroyed by his selfish behaviour.:furious:

This is indeed a heart-wrenching quote.
Her marriage was so tough, and yet her diary showed that whilst she grappled with the agony, she also remained grateful to the end, for what was good about it. She was one resilient woman.

 

[Doidy]

I just read Toni's three consecutive statements and am disgusted. She kept secret (lied by omission) important information about her affair with GBC since December 2011 including conversations which point to GBC's strong motive to kill ABC - ABC saying if he left her it 'would not be pretty', his significant concerns about his financial situation etc. what a woman! Imagine knowing all this and still protecting him (and herself) and not divulging the full picture to police at the outset - only after she was told re the other affairs. So she was happy to protect a murderer just not a murderer who was cheating on her...

 

[Strangeworld]

Something that amazed me when I read the business partners' statements was how seemingly unofficial the whole partnership was. It seemed more like a handshake deal than something laid out clearly in contracts (apart from reference to insurance in the financial advisor's statement and some other paperwork). The vagueness of how much each partner invested, the wages drawn down, the lack of awareness of the ongoing financial state of the business, the 'privacy' of EBC and NBC's financials, etc. Either the partners are being very guarded (I doubt this) or GBC really pulled the wool over their eyes.

IMO, this suggests someone who is very good at getting others to have confidence in him, even without substance. Which also extended into his friendship circle - friends who gave him large loans, unaware of the risks involved.

 

[BJsleuth]

I just read Toni's three consecutive statements and am disgusted. She kept secret (lied by omission) important information about her affair with GBC since December 2011 including conversations which point to GBC's strong motive to kill ABC - ABC saying if he left her it 'would not be pretty', his significant concerns about his financial situation etc. what a woman! Imagine knowing all this and still protecting him (and herself) and not divulging the full picture to police at the outset - only after she was told re the other affairs. So she was happy to protect a murderer just not a murderer who was cheating on her...

Yes and the "better tell Allison I'm going to the conference' Allison would know he had been in contact with TM again. How else would he explain knowing that? Was it a not so subtle message to Allison? TM wanted her to know that she still had a grip on GBC or did TM just not consider that?

 

[Doidy]

Reading Toni's statements shows just under the pump GBC was - financially from multiple parties but also emotionally from his wife (and rightly so!!) and his mistress. I think after six months of ABC standing up for herself and their marriage and demanding (rightly so!) him to be accountable and transparent, he decided he didn't like it - this integrity thing was too hard... The statement says that Allison was monitoring him at work by physically sitting in the office and monitoring him at work and home thru checking his communications (email and phone) and setting a work curfew of 5.30pm. For a man used to doing whatever he wanted with whomever he wanted whenever he wanted this level of oversight would have been too much to handle. I suspect the rage would have been building. I want to b clear that I think allison did exactly what needed to b done here - if yr husband has so terribly betrayed yr trust he needs to earn it back and accountabity and transparency is needed. It's just so terribly tragic that while she had worked out he was a philanderer by nature she (and no one else) hadn't worked out he was also a murderer by nature ��

 

[Happygolucky]

Something that amazed me when I read the business partners' statements was how seemingly unofficial the whole partnership was. It seemed more like a handshake deal than something laid out clearly in contracts (apart from reference to insurance in the financial advisor's statement and some other paperwork). The vagueness of how much each partner invested, the wages drawn down, the lack of awareness of the ongoing financial state of the business, the 'privacy' of EBC and NBC's financials, etc. Either the partners are being very guarded (I doubt this) or GBC really pulled the wool over their eyes.

IMO, this suggests someone who is very good at getting others to have confidence in him, even without substance. Which also extended into his friendship circle - friends who gave him large loans, unaware of the risks involved.

It is also clear the partners had very little business accumen by not insisting on full disclosure.

 

[kailee]

so the court documents have confirmed that OW was in/around Brookfield at the time of disappearance (and not in Townsville). Has there been any confirmation as to the whereabouts of the 3 girls on the night of 19th? where they home/sleeping over somewhere.

what struck me with the phone records was that for a Friday morning, OW (on holidays) and NBC (retired) were all up and about quite early. At that time of year the sun rises at 6.07am. To me, that kind of organisation needs a little pre-warning, more than just a 6.45 phone call "Allison's missing, come help get the kids to school".

 

[wewillgetyou]

Do you think that Toni knew though that she was "withholding " information as such ?
I mean if your boyfriends wife goes missing surely the first thought isn't that he murdered her ?
I just wonder if Toni was a bit naive and just didn't realise the seriousness of what was unfolding ( until it had unfolded of course)
I just can't understand if she did then why she didn't have a lawyer with her to give her statements.

 

[Happygolucky]

I just read Toni's three consecutive statements and am disgusted. She kept secret (lied by omission) important information about her affair with GBC since December 2011 including conversations which point to GBC's strong motive to kill ABC - ABC saying if he left her it 'would not be pretty', his significant concerns about his financial situation etc. what a woman! Imagine knowing all this and still protecting him (and herself) and not divulging the full picture to police at the outset - only after she was told re the other affairs. So she was happy to protect a murderer just not a murderer who was cheating on her...

Neither GBC or Toni had much character. I believe they deserved each other. Alison, with the support of her family would have been better off on her own.

 

[Doidy]

Someone asked whether any locals know of the dirt track btw rafting ground rd and moggill road that Phil broom referred to in his statement. I'm a local and used to horse ride all around brookfield pullenvale mt Crosby moggill etc growing up. The only direct- ish one I know of which is actually quite interesting is one that links Huntington estate used to be tucketts farm and levale pony club) and moggill road. It used to be a dirt road the whole way but is now only part dirt road. Not sure if this is the right one as I would describe it as I a dirt road rather than dirt track. If u drive down tangy st (off RG Rd) it becomes a private dirt road which bypasses several houses on large blocks set well back from the dirt road and comes out down near (surprise surprise!) durness st (in the cluster of streets around there). You keep going past that cluster of streets and it connects up to moggill rd (via bottom of kilkivan ave). I haven't been down there for ages so it might be bitumen now but interesting anyway as its a 'back route' to his parents place and he could have driven there, parked the car in a quiet area near a creek there and walked to knock on his parents door - if he needed their help but didn't want to phone. I have wracked my brains for any routes thru RG rd to moggill rd near kholo creek and can't think of any. They would have to be long dirt tracks (eg 8 km) thru state forest, a possibility but I can't think of any

 

[Snails]

Something that amazed me when I read the business partners' statements was how seemingly unofficial the whole partnership was. It seemed more like a handshake deal than something laid out clearly in contracts (apart from reference to insurance in the financial advisor's statement and some other paperwork). The vagueness of how much each partner invested, the wages drawn down, the lack of awareness of the ongoing financial state of the business, the 'privacy' of EBC and NBC's financials, etc. Either the partners are being very guarded (I doubt this) or GBC really pulled the wool over their eyes.

IMO, this suggests someone who is very good at getting others to have confidence in him, even without substance. Which also extended into his friendship circle - friends who gave him large loans, unaware of the risks involved.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=confidence+man

Noun 1.confidence man - a swindler who exploits the confidence of his victim
con artist, con man
chiseler, chiseller, defrauder, grifter, scammer, swindler, gouger - a person who swindles you by means of deception or fraud.

 

[BJsleuth]

Someone asked whether any locals know of the dirt track btw rafting ground rd and moggill road that Phil broom referred to in his statement. I'm a local and used to horse ride all around brookfield pullenvale mt Crosby moggill etc growing up. The only direct- ish one I know of which is actually quite interesting is one that links Huntington estate used to be tucketts farm and levale pony club) and moggill road. It used to be a dirt road the whole way but is now only part dirt road. Not sure if this is the right one as I would describe it as I a dirt road rather than dirt track. If u drive down tangy st (off RG Rd) it becomes a private dirt road which bypasses several houses on large blocks set well back from the dirt road and comes out down near (surprise surprise!) durness st (in the cluster of streets around there). You keep going past that cluster of streets and it connects up to moggill rd (via bottom of kilkivan ave). I haven't been down there for ages so it might be bitumen now but interesting anyway as its a 'back route' to his parents place and he could have driven there, parked the car in a quiet area near a creek there and walked to knock on his parents door - if he needed their help but didn't want to phone. I have wracked my brains for any routes thru RG rd to moggill rd near kholo creek and can't think of any. They would have to be long dirt tracks (eg 8 km) thru state forest, a possibility but I can't think of any

Say like a fire trail?

 

[marlywings]

Some of the other mods & I have been discussing thoughts on ways for you guys to post about the different documents now that they're all on board.

I've just now opened a new thread & would appreciate hearing your opinions about the above.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9052302#post9052302"]Opinions on discussions of Documents. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[kailee]

Say like a fire trail?

i'll admit i fell for the ol' trailer theory a while back.. when I was amateur sleuthing that theory I noticed that kilkivan ave wasn't entirely mapped out by google maps. One day, I'll have to make the point of having a drive around brookfield, anstead and surrounds - just to get a true picture of the place for myself

 

[just desserts]

An interesting story on 60 mins. Susan Fraser in jail for murder but there was no body found and no murder weapon. No evidence found to convict her and yet she was found guilty and serving 23 yrs.

 

[alioop]

Absolutely agree with this.

There was an incredibly bitter/sad/sarcastic/hurt message from Allison to GBC on the 18th April at 11.59am

(See Paragraph #94 from the Neil Robertson phone analysis)

"Having fun with your companion? Hope you're not putting any seats down in the back of snowy ???"

MOO/IMO This is a heartbreaking insight into how the trust had been destroyed by his selfish behaviour.:furious:

PS
Snowy = Prado?

I don't know if this comment by Allison means that she knew the affair had resumed or she was just letting him know that she was keeping tabs on him so that he wouldn't even think about seeing TM again. Either way I think it shows she was not afraid to voice her concerns to him.

 

[linette]

so the court documents have confirmed that OW was in/around Brookfield at the time of disappearance (and not in Townsville). Has there been any confirmation as to the whereabouts of the 3 girls on the night of 19th? where they home/sleeping over somewhere.

what struck me with the phone records was that for a Friday morning, OW (on holidays) and NBC (retired) were all up and about quite early. At that time of year the sun rises at 6.07am. To me, that kind of organisation needs a little pre-warning, more than just a 6.45 phone call "Allison's missing, come help get the kids to school".

If it were all upfront and GBC made a call that early to them to come and watch the kids surely they would've said "Come on, Gerard, you can't really think she's missing, she's only a little bit late!" You wouldn't jump in to alert mode.
It seems to be accepted now that the girls were at their own home.

 

[alioop]

An interesting story on 60 mins. Susan Fraser in jail for murder but there was no body found and no murder weapon. No evidence found to convict her and yet she was found guilty and serving 23 yrs.

I just had a quick look at her supporters page which had lots of media reports on the progress of the trial and it seems that the conviction was based on the evidence of many lies that she told and changes to her story. The police case was that if she was innocent why did she tell so many lies.

 

[Ippygal]

I only just watched the story on 60 minutes... Seems slightly familiar really- phone records showing she was awake when she said she was asleep all night, the lies, not appearing distressed at his disappearance... Interesting...

 

[marlywings]

I just had a quick look at her supporters page which had lots of media reports on the progress of the trial and it seems that the conviction was based on the evidence of many lies that she told and changes to her story. The police case was that if she was innocent why did she tell so many lies.

This is what I've thought all along with GBC...that his endless lies, to so many people, will be his downfall.