Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Renee110]

And? About a minute earlier, he says it's fatal. Are you denying that?

My partner is a nurse, and we actually had a talk last night about this. Fatal means that it was something that causes death, but death is not necessarily instant, and is according to her, generally NOT instant. It takes time to die. So a fatal shot or wound is a wound that is deadly, but the person may live a little longer after receiving the wound or heart attack or whatever is fatal. She said it much better than I did! And the example she used was..... back in the "old" day, when they be-headed someone, they used to pick up the head and show it the body, so the person would know they were dead. Because the "head" was still cognizant. Obviously be-heading someone is fatal, but they were alive for a few seconds after. Gruesome I know, but quite demonstrative of what she was explaining to me!

 

[LambChop]

TERRIFIC post! :great: I'm new, too, and have felt the same way about posting, but everybody has been SO welcoming!

I'm not a medical expert, nor do I anticipate becoming one during this trial, so I leave all those discussions to others with more medical training and knowledge. (I took earth science and space science in college. Biology lab was not my friend.) But, logically, I just cannot see JA, after ALL the planning she did (gas cans, license plates, alibi, hair dye, rental car, etc.) using the ONE weapon mentioned in DOCUMENTED POLICE REPORT: the .25 caliber handgun. She'd already successfully slashed and flattened 12 tires. She felt comfortable with a knife, maybe a little cocky. It just wasn't as easy as they make it look in the movies. (Her favorite movies on mySpace include Edward Scissorhands and House of Flying Daggers. Oh, boy.)

I believe this trial, for her, is about killing Travis' spirit. She cannot express remorse because she has none. She HATED him at the end. She was obsessed and could NOT move on. Now, she wants nothing "good" of TA to remain. She wants to destroy his reputation and legacy just like she destroyed his body in that bathroom. The problem is, he WAS a really good guy and people still love him. I cried at the end of the sex tape when he sang. Laughed because he sounded so sweet and funny, then cried because I remembered he was dead.

Anyway, that's my long-winded :Welcome1: message. Look forward to reading more of your thoughts!

But in her mind, Travis BETRAYED her. Pretty much like everyone in her life up to that point. Mom, MM, Darryl (he did not want to marry her), Victor, Dad and now Travis. And just when she thought she had Travis where she wanted him. I can't help but think her Mom sitting there in court without expression is thinking Jodi very well could have killed her if she did not do as Jodi asked. jmo

 

[danzn16]

I'm watching the ME's testimony and I have such renewal of disgust for JA. Even if it was self defense, she needs to pay for leaving him to rot. I am so sorry for TA and his family for him having to be seen like this. The discussion of his neck being cut and that it went through the airway is horrid. I remember years I go I watched a video on a news site of a prisoner of war being beheaded in Iraq and it was the worst thing I had ever seen and immediately regretted watching it. I will never forget the noises that were made. I could definitely see JA shooting TA just to make those absolutely horrid noises stop. However no one knows why she did that so that is just a theory on why she would shoot him afterwards. But I absolutely don't think it was to end his misery or otherwise she wouldn't have stabbed him 29 times in the first palce. The ME said he was absolutely still live when his throat was cut. Even if TA was a horrible rapist, which he absolutely is not, but just saying if he was a very bad person that I would feel less sorry for if their life was taken, I still think that it is absolutely unnecessary and horrible. If this jury lets this monster walk I will literally vomit.

 

[danzn16]

His words? What? His words were that it was fatal, and the autopsy report also says so.

Just listened to the ME testimony. When they discussed the stab to the chest that penetrated the SVC here is what the ME said:

"It's a significant injury, it would definitely cause death without medical attention."

JM asked if it was the most or least fatal and the ME said it was in the middle of the 3 wounds, slash of the through 1st, gun shot 3rd.

He did say that it was not immediate that it would take minutes for the chest stab. He said the neck cut and gun shot would be immediate loss of consciousness.


It starts at 1:48:00 if anyone wants to prove it for themselves.

 

[LambChop]

I'm watching the ME's testimony and I have such renewal of disgust for JA. Even if it was self defense, she needs to pay for leaving him to rot. I am so sorry for TA and his family for him having to be seen like this. The discussion of his neck being cut and that it went through the airway is horrid. I remember years I go I watched a video on a news site of a prisoner of war being beheaded in Iraq and it was the worst thing I had ever seen and immediately regretted watching it. I will never forget the noises that were made. I could definitely see JA shooting TA just to make those absolutely horrid noises stop. However no one knows why she did that so that is just a theory on why she would shoot him afterwards. But I absolutely don't think it was to end his misery or otherwise she wouldn't have stabbed him 29 times in the first palce. The ME said he was absolutely still live when his throat was cut. Even if TA was a horrible rapist, which he absolutely is not, but just saying if he was a very bad person that I would feel less sorry for if their life was taken, I still think that it is absolutely unnecessary and horrible. If this jury lets this monster walk I will literally vomit.

The 29 stab wounds and cutting his throat shows frustration that she could not kill him, he would not die. If the shot was last she just wanted to assure herself he was dead so she could leave. It was getting late and after all she did have all that cleanup to do from the mess he made (her point of view, not mine). So I could see her reasoning that shooting him in the head should put an end to his life and would make sense as a reason she shot him last. jmo

 

[scorpio24]

But in her mind, Travis BETRAYED her. Pretty much like everyone in her life up to that point. Mom, MM, Darryl (he did not want to marry her), Victor, Dad and now Travis. And just when she thought she had Travis where she wanted him. I can't help but think her Mom sitting there in court without expression is thinking Jodi very well could have killed her if she did not do as Jodi asked. jmo

Yes. I believe the marriage issue was the "biggie." And he not only BETRAYED her in that regard, he threatened to remove himself from her life forever. NOBODY did that to Jodi. There is a reason they're called ex-boyfriends. There should be an EXIT. Not with this gal. She found whatever weakness a person had and exploited it.

All the people you listed above should be GRATEFUL to be alive. There's no telling who she was coming for with those other weapons. :twocents:

 

[LambChop]

Yes. I believe the marriage issue was the "biggie." And he not only BETRAYED her in that regard, he threatened to remove himself from her life forever. NOBODY did that to Jodi. There is a reason they're called ex-boyfriends. There should be an EXIT. Not with this gal. She found whatever weakness a person had and exploited it.

All the people you listed above should be GRATEFUL to be alive. There's no telling who she was coming for with those other weapons. :twocents:

She is still trying to control these people, 5 years later. I can't help but think that when Jodi told Darryl she was "moving on" he did a happy dance for months afterwards.

 

[Mountaindreamer]

But in her mind, Travis BETRAYED her. Pretty much like everyone in her life up to that point. Mom, MM, Darryl (he did not want to marry her), Victor, Dad and now Travis. And just when she thought she had Travis where she wanted him. I can't help but think her Mom sitting there in court without expression is thinking Jodi very well could have killed her if she did not do as Jodi asked. jmo

that is if we believe that her father and mother beat her. one time when she was talking about the wooden spoon she kept in her purse they showed the mother and the sister and the mother was like shaking her head so i wonder if these are more lies

 

[molly333]

Just listened to the ME testimony. When they discussed the stab to the chest that penetrated the SVC here is what the ME said:

"It's a significant injury, it would definitely cause death without medical attention."

JM asked if it was the most or least fatal and the ME said it was in the middle of the 3 wounds, slash of the through 1st, gun shot 3rd.

He did say that it was not immediate that it would take minutes for the chest stab. He said the neck cut and gun shot would be immediate loss of consciousness.


It starts at 1:48:00 if anyone wants to prove it for themselves.

That slash through the SVC--isn't that what Princess Diana died of? She was alive for quite some time after the accident. I think that's one of those 'golden hour' wounds you can survive if you get to the hospital within an hour.

I disagree with ME that the gunshot to the head was fatal or that he would even be unconscious. If the Defense were serious about this, it would be easy to get an expert to testify to this I think.

ME rated the wounds so the only conclusion you could draw from his testimony was knife first.

IMO

 

[Angelo]

First time poster, long time member. Here is what I think happened :
Pic @ 5 :30pm of Travis in the shower, looks surprised & scared
Next pic he is sitting down in the shower. I believe in this pic he was startled, trying to get out of the shower & he slips on the water & his fallen position gives her a perfect stab. This is where I believe she stabbed him in the heart, hitting the pericardial sac & supervior vena cava, he manages to get up, staggers to the sink not to look at himself but simply for support, he coughs, thus the blood spatter at the sink. She is behind him stabbing him in the back. He turns to flee, staggers down the hallway, (higher blood stains) he's leaning on the wall, he falls, rolls on back, thus defensive wounds to his feet, he manages again to get up on all fours (her statement he says "I can't feel my legs") , he gets to bedroom/hallway threshold, she straddles him & slits his throat. Much blood here. She drags him back to the shower, he begins convulsing & the animal who is Jodi Arias shoots him in the head, using his tassle pillow as a silencer. He is dead now, no blood along cerebral/sinus bullet track as he has lost all his blood volume. She showers at this point, then gets him him the shower. All the while the water (shower) was running, thus the high water stains on the storage boxes. She throws the camera in with the bedding, probably lost track of it as her time to get out of there was running out as the roommates were due home, washes the camera & gets the heck out of there.
This woman disgusts me. Here total disregard for the justice system, her lack of respect to Mr. Martinez, & the fact that she has never shown remorse or said "I'm sorry" to Travis' family makes me sick. Death penalty or LIP, neither matters to me as long as she gets to suffer knowing what she did for the rest of her miserable life.
It doesn't matter to the case what sequence his death occurred, both are considered cruel for premeditated murder but this is my two cents. She is evil through & through.

Agree 100%!!!!

 

[pip]

That slash through the SVC--isn't that what Princess Diana died of? She was alive for quite some time after the accident. I think that's one of those 'golden hour' wounds you can survive if you get to the hospital within an hour.

I disagree with ME that the gunshot to the head was fatal or that he would even be unconscious. If the Defense were serious about this, it would be easy to get an expert to testify to this I think.

ME rated the wounds so the only conclusion you could draw from his testimony was knife first.

IMO

I'd say way less than an hour. He would have been hemorrhaging massively from the SVC. The pericardial sac was also hit which leads to cardiac tamponade, in which it fills with blood and restricts the heart from beating and perfusing adequately, ultimately cardiac arrest. This injury would not have let him last for an hour.
Regarding the GSW, I have read several articles that state low velocity, small caliber GSW to the frontal lobe may not even render the victim unconscious in some cases and that outcomes are more favorable with this type of injury. I read an article about a suicidal woman with chronic psychiatric problems who shot herself with a small caliber gun to the temple. The bullet passed thru both frontal lobes and terminated in the second frontal lobe hit. She did not seek medical attention. The bullet was discovered 2 years later during an CT for her constant headaches. She was fine. The article stated that she didn't even have personality changes. Now this is an extremely unusual case, but it happened.

 

[LambChop]

that is if we believe that her father and mother beat her. one time when she was talking about the wooden spoon she kept in her purse they showed the mother and the sister and the mother was like shaking her head so i wonder if these are more lies

I'm sure it happened but maybe not with the intensity or frequency Jodi claims. Jodi can't describe beatings because she has never experienced it and I imagine her defense team realize she could never pull it off so they stuck with the spoons. I don't think her father ever pushed her, I think she pulled away from him as he grabbed her to keep her from leaving and she fell. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I'd say way less than an hour. He would have been hemorrhaging massively from the SVC. The pericardial sac was also hit which leads to cardiac tamponade, in which it fills with blood and restricts the heart from beating and perfusing adequately, ultimately cardiac arrest. This injury would not have let him last for an hour.
Regarding the GSW, I have read several articles that state low velocity, small caliber GSW to the frontal lobe may not even render the victim unconscious in some cases and that outcomes are more favorable with this type of injury. I read an article about a suicidal woman with chronic psychiatric problems who shot herself with a small caliber gun to the temple. The bullet passed thru both frontal lobes and terminated in the second frontal lobe hit. She did not seek medical attention. The bullet was discovered 2 years later during an CT for her constant headaches. She was fine. The article stated that she didn't even have personality changes. Now this is an extremely unusual case, but it happened.

If this woman had chronic psychiatric problems before she shot herself what personality changes would we expect to see that would not be any different than the personality she had prior to her shooting herself? Seems strange that someone would not have asked her about that hole in her temple unless she lived alone. It also sounds as if after two years that she did not try to commit suicide again so it may have improved her psychiatric condition. Either way, I'm glad she survived. Depression is a serious matter if you can't find relief for the condition. jmo

 

[SweetT]

I do believe there was some truth in JA's words when she was still on her "The ninja's done it story". I think she was telling the truth about Travis coming out of the shower on all 4's. I also believe at some point during her execution of him that he did tell her that he could no longer feel his legs, but no matter to her, she just kept on killing him. Why? Because she is a pathetic loser who wanted to destroy Travis in is body and now in his memory because she is just that evil. Of course no lie is spared when it comes to saving her sorry A$$ but Travis didn't deserve a chance (In her mind she is the judge and jury). I can hardly stand watching her on the stand, I saw her smile when that other girl said Travis cheated on her with Jodi. She actually got a kick out of that. She also gets so defiant with JM and her belligerence and smirky attitude just show how much of a witch she really is. It also shows that she will back down to noone, even if what she is saying is a pack of lies, she will say it with conviction. I hope the jury can see this also.

 

[pip]

If this woman had chronic psychiatric problems before she shot herself what personality changes would we expect to see that would not be any different than the personality she had prior to her shooting herself? Seems strange that someone would not have asked her about that hole in her temple unless she lived alone. It also sounds as if after two years that she did not try to commit suicide again so it may have improved her psychiatric condition. Either way, I'm glad she survived. Depression is a serious matter if you can't find relief for the condition. jmo

It just attests to the fact that she survived a self-inflicted GSW thru both frontal lobes and is relatively unchanged without even seeking medical attention. Extremely odd, bizarre case, no doubt, but she did fine.

 

[molly333]

It just attests to the fact that she survived a self-inflicted GSW thru both frontal lobes and is relatively unchanged without even seeking medical attention. Extremely odd, bizarre case, no doubt, but she did fine.

Yeah. I'm wondering if ME lacked experience with small caliber. Or, maybe he was just skewing his testimony, as it appears.

ME gives us one wound for the first blow--SVC. He says it is the only wound that would allow for the defensive wounds afterwards.

I think there are two wounds that could be first blow--SVC and gunshot.

Gunshot makes more sense to me.

No telling what the Jury will think.

IMO

 

[geevee]

Does anyone familiar with digital cameras know if you could take a memory stick with photos saved on it, put that stick in another camera and take more pictures, then upload the pics from the stick to the computer, would the pics flow in sequence as if hey had been shot at the same time (or in this case, two sets on the same day)?

 

[LambChop]

It just attests to the fact that she survived a self-inflicted GSW thru both frontal lobes and is relatively unchanged without even seeking medical attention. Extremely odd, bizarre case, no doubt, but she did fine.

I truly am glad she is fine and I hope in a much better mental state than when she shot herself. It must be awful to live in that state of mind all the time. I just can't imagine how difficult it would be to suffer that way. Depression is not something I can ever remember having, unhappy about something yes, but never being that depressed. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Yeah. I'm wondering if ME lacked experience with small caliber. Or, maybe he was just skewing his testimony, as it appears.

ME gives us one wound for the first blow--SVC. He says it is the only wound that would allow for the defensive wounds afterwards.

I think there are two wounds that could be first blow--SVC and gunshot.

Gunshot makes more sense to me.

No telling what the Jury will think.

IMO

I don't think the jury is expected to think about that other than she is lying. They will be more concerned that JM has proven beyond a doubt that Jodi has lied time and time again in order to paint herself as a victim to save her life. Their focus will be how much do we believe happened the way Jodi claims. Did she plan it? We can see the closet story does not give her enough time according to the recorded pictures that make up the timeline, so she is lying. Jodi is stuck with her story and that will be what is the primary discussion I would think.

And it would not surprise me because JM is not focusing on which came first. He seems to be focusing on her claims that she was in a fog afterwards. If the jury believes she is telling the truth about the fog they might be less likely to sentence her to death and lean more towards LWOP. That is what defense is aiming for. It is clear Jodi was not stabbing him to death to keep him from killing her. Once he was at that sink there was nothing in her way to keep her in that bathroom. Her instinct would have been to flee if she felt threatened and not to stay and "finish" him off. The gunshot last would leave an impression on the jury "I don't have time for this" and she finishes him off with a shot to the head. So shot first or last it is what happened with the stabbing that is the main issue here. I don't think either way is good for her. jmo

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Just listened to the ME testimony. When they discussed the stab to the chest that penetrated the SVC here is what the ME said:

"It's a significant injury, it would definitely cause death without medical attention."

JM asked if it was the most or least fatal and the ME said it was in the middle of the 3 wounds, slash of the through 1st, gun shot 3rd.

He did say that it was not immediate that it would take minutes for the chest stab. He said the neck cut and gun shot would be immediate loss of consciousness.


It starts at 1:48:00 if anyone wants to prove it for themselves.

I'm not disputing it would take longer. I'm disputing the idea that there was only one fatal wound.