CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #47

[Salem]

This is incorrect. They must have a search warrant in order to keep the chain of custody straight. Otherwise, whatever LE takes without a warrant cannot be used as evidence in court.

Do you have a link for this Mix? I have never heard this. A search warrant is needed to protect constitutional rights (if the person does not wish to consent) and has nothing to do with chain of custody, that I know of?

Salem

 

[scorekeeper]

Most Americans understand that police officers sometimes need a warrant to search for information believed to be related to criminal activity. They may also be aware that, according to the exclusionary rule, evidence gained in an illegal search cannot be used to convict someone of a crime. However, in many circumstances the police do not need a warrant for a search, or for the evidence gained from a search, to be legal and used in court.

In each of the situations below, a police officer does not need a search warrant to conduct a search.
■If an individual voluntarily consents (agrees to) a search, no warrant is needed. The key question in this kind of search is what counts as a voluntary agreement? In order for a consent search to be legal, the individual must be in control of the area to be searched and cannot have been pressured or tricked into agreeing to the search.
■A police officer that spots something in plain view does not need a search warrant to seize the object. In order for a plain view search to be legal, the officer must be in a place he has the right to be in and the object he seizes must be plainly visible in this location.

http://www.streetlaw.org/en/Page/342/When_is_a_Search_Warrant_Not_Necessary

 

[SmoothOperator]

Adding the exact verbiage onto your post to keep it together:

Melissa Blasius:
Do you remember what you told them?

Mark Redwine:
Well, I told them that I hadn’t heard from Dylan all day and I didn’t think much of it and when I got down to the Marshall’s Office or to his friend Ryan’s house or Fernando…anyway... when I ran across his friends and they hadn’t heard from him – then that’s when I went over to the Marshall’s Office and told them that, you know, we need to find him, make contact with him. They were going to put out like a wellness check or they just notify the local authorities to keep an eye out for him and make contact with him so somebody can “bang him in the head” and say, “Hey, your dad’s trying to get a hold of you. Your friends are trying to get a hold of you. You need to communicate to somebody. But at that moment in time…, I felt the need to address this issue with mom, so I immediately asked her had she heard from him and indicated to her that I hadn’t heard from him all day and that I was at the Marshall’s office taking care of this, and that’s when pretty much all hell broke loose with her.
Melissa Blasius Interview

MOO..he just cannot keep it straight ...

 

[Redhead72]

This is incorrect. They must have a search warrant in order to keep the chain of custody straight. Otherwise, whatever LE takes without a warrant cannot be used as evidence in court.

If a person gives consent to law enforcement then search and seizure of items within that search are admissible as evidence in a court of law.

http://nationalparalegal.edu/conlaw...ctionfromsearches&seizures/extowarrantreq.asp

Please see the page above for explanations of different scenarios, and the flowchart I have attached below. As long as LE has permission to search they can seize anything as evidence and it is admissible.

 

[NC Analyzer]

Most Americans understand that police officers sometimes need a warrant to search for information believed to be related to criminal activity. They may also be aware that, according to the exclusionary rule, evidence gained in an illegal search cannot be used to convict someone of a crime. However, in many circumstances the police do not need a warrant for a search, or for the evidence gained from a search, to be legal and used in court.

In each of the situations below, a police officer does not need a search warrant to conduct a search.
■If an individual voluntarily consents (agrees to) a search, no warrant is needed. The key question in this kind of search is what counts as a voluntary agreement? In order for a consent search to be legal, the individual must be in control of the area to be searched and cannot have been pressured or tricked into agreeing to the search.
■A police officer that spots something in plain view does not need a search warrant to seize the object. In order for a plain view search to be legal, the officer must be in a place he has the right to be in and the object he seizes must be plainly visible in this location.

http://www.streetlaw.org/en/Page/342/When_is_a_Search_Warrant_Not_Necessary

There's also the emergency exception, (hot pursuit, someone in danger, etc.), search in conjunction with arrest, motor vehicle exception and most recently the warrantless interception of communications. There are a few others, like schools, prisons, probationers, borders, etc. that don't apply to this case.

 

[mixologist74]

Do you have a link for this Mix? I have never heard this. A search warrant is needed to protect constitutional rights (if the person does not wish to consent) and has nothing to do with chain of custody, that I know of?

Salem

Give me a minute to find a link. If I cannot find one, please delete.

 

[Redhead72]

This is incorrect. They must have a search warrant in order to keep the chain of custody straight. Otherwise, whatever LE takes without a warrant cannot be used as evidence in court.

Chain of custody itself refers to the papertrail of who has control of the evidence once it has been collected. It is paperwork that keeps track of where and by whom the evidence was seized, serves as proof of delivery of evidence to a lab, serves as proof of the return from the lab to the police, etc... If there is no clear chain of custody, then no matter how the evidence was obtained, it can be ruled out of consideration due to the risk of tampering, etc...

How the evidence was collected is a separate issue, which I addressed in the post about search warrants above.

Here's more about the specifics:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/chain+of+custody

 

[RANCH]

Yes, my bad on the post you quoted by me.

LE may have been looking at other possibilities, but runaway was on the table for several days. My original question <modsnip> was if ER voiced her suspicions about MR to LE from the beginning. Nothing bad on Elaine. I just wonder if LE was fed that info from the beginning. IF they were, why would they think Dylan could have been a runaway and why did it take 10 days to secure a search warrant for MR's home and vehicles. If ER didn't voice those suspicions, it's not a bad thing and I'm not accusing her of anything. It was a simple question that got warped and reworded and wound up like DNA in a nucleus.

I have asked in the past why LE waited 10 days before executing the search warrant.

The answer I got was that LE thought Dylan was a runaway for a long period of time and that was the reason for the delay.

So then I asked how LE got that opinion and I was told it was because Mark told them that he felt that was the reason for Dylan's disappearance. Where that came from I'm not sure.

I then asked why didn't LE consult with Elaine before deciding that Dylan was a possible runaway and why would they only be using Mark's opinion to make an important decision on how their investigation should be focused.

I don't think that I ever got a good explanation for that. I'm not sure that there is one. MOO.

 

[mixologist74]

Chain of custody itself refers to the papertrail of who has control of the evidence once it has been collected. It is paperwork that keeps track of where and by whom the evidence was seized, serves as proof of delivery of evidence to a lab, serves as proof of the return from the lab to the police, etc... If there is no clear chain of custody, then no matter how the evidence was obtained, it can be ruled out of consideration due to the risk of tampering, etc...

How the evidence was collected is a separate issue, which I addressed in the post about search warrants above.

Here's more about the specifics:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/chain+of+custody

Well there ya go. My bad then.

 

[findDylan]

MSM ARTICLES TO SUPPORT ABDUCTION BY STRANGER &#8211; KIDNAPPED WHILE HITCHIKING THEORY

Sniped almost all of it. Just wanted to say Thank You for all your hard work. You are amazingly organized. Can I borrow you to help with my house? (OT)

 

[Money Girl]

Speaking of searches, my daughter-in-law won in the Supreme Court on this one.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-unconstitutional-search-supreme-court-rules/

 

[KateNY]

I dunno, but I would hazard a guess, that in possible missing child cases, that LE inquiring re custody issues and the like, would be S.O.P.

Using bad form and quoting myself, but I was curious and did some searching. Found a cklist from NCMEC that they provide for LE

snipped just a few things, that pertain to the issues we were discussing related to family / just dropping in, as an fyi..what LE would be looking at from the getgo

The material contained in this Checklist is found in the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) Publication #88 titled Investigative Checklist for First Responders

This checklist is laminated for durability and may be easily carried in a briefcase or kept in a glove compartment or other place within a law-enforcement vehicle.

BBM

First Responder
Interview parent(s)/guardian(s)/person who made the initial report.
[ ]Verify the child’s custody status.
[ ]Based on the available information, make an initial determination of the type of incident whether nonfamily abduction; family abduction; runaway; or lost, injured, or otherwise missing.

Identify and separately interview everyone at the scene.
[ ]Determine each person’s relationship to the missing child.
[ ] Note information each person may have about the child’s disappearance.
[ ] Determine when/where each person last saw the child.
[ ] Ask each one, “What do you think happened to the child?”

Interview other family members, friends/associates of the child, and friends of the family to determine
[ ] When each last saw the child.
[ ] What they think happened to the child

Conduct an immediate, thorough search of the missing child’s home, even if the child was reported missing from a different location

Investigative Officer
Obtain a brief, recent history of family dynamics
Correct and investigate the reasons for conflicting information offered by witnesses and other individuals.
Conduct a criminal-history check on all principal suspects and participants in the investigation

http://www.missingkids.com/LawEnforcement

http://www.pcponj.org/PDF/Misc/CART MISSING CHILD INITIAL RESPONSE CHECKLIST.pdf

 

[RANCH]

Using bad form and quoting myself, but I was curious and did some searching. Found a cklist from NCMEC that they provide for LE

snipped just a few things, that pertain to the issues we were discussing related to family / just dropping in, as an fyi..what LE would be looking at from the getgo


BBM


http://www.missingkids.com/LawEnforcement

http://www.pcponj.org/PDF/Misc/CART MISSING CHILD INITIAL RESPONSE CHECKLIST.pdf

Thanks for bringing this to us Kate.

I found the part under "Investigative Officer" were it says "Correct and investigate the reasons for conflicting information offered by witnesses and other individuals." to be very interesting.

I would hope that LE did that at the very beginning of this case. And if they did why was there a 10 day delay in executing the search warrant?

 

[TxJan1971]

11-23-12
Bender said five sheriff&#8217;s investigators are working the case. They have contacted the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, he said. Dylan&#8217;s photo was featured Friday on the website of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
http://durangoherald.com/article/20121123/NEWS01/121129810/0/SEARCH/'He-would-have-called

11-24-12
She said she drove here from Colorado Springs Monday evening, &#8220;as soon as I found out he was missing. I was on the road by 5:30 p.m. I also called the Sheriff&#8217;s Office.&#8221; As of Friday, she said, &#8220;They are looking at all leads. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children had a representative there&#8221; when she was at the sheriff's office Friday morning. &#8220;They are looking at Dylan as endangered, possibly abducted.&#8221;
http://www.pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1091

11-24-12
Photos and information about Dylan have been posted on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. NCMEC is a national database alert system equivalent to the Amber Alert system, Bender said, without the criteria restrictions of an Amber Alert. Amber Alerts are typically issued for younger children, he said, and include a vehicle description, a possible direction of travel, and suspect information; criteria not met in Dylan&#8217;s case.
http://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/ar...wine-13-from-co-cousin-to-la-verkin-resident/

11-26-12
Sheriff&#8217;s investigators are working with the FBI & NCMEC.
http://durangoherald.com/article/20121126/NEWS01/121129702/-1/News01/Frustration-mounting--

 

[Redhead72]

Speaking of searches, my daughter-in-law won in the Supreme Court on this one.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-unconstitutional-search-supreme-court-rules/

That's a really interesting case in regard to privacy rights, and a drug-sniffing dog as a "device" used to discover things not in plain view (one of the exceptions that they list in regard to whether a search warrant is needed or not in the comment I made). I find it interesting that it was based upon the fact also that it was a home, and not a vehicle, or a package, as they've ruled differently in those types of cases.

Thanks for sharing it...

 

[KateNY]

Ranch...I think we all have that same same question about the 10 day delay

?? wonder what's the norm in other cases

 

[KateNY]

TxJan :yourock:

 

[RANCH]

Ranch...I think we all have that same same question about the 10 day delay

?? wonder what's the norm in other cases

The only other case that I'm familiar with that had a significant delay before a search warrant was executed was in the Lisa Irwin case.

That was for a little over two weeks. The police had previously searched the Irwin home with consent like they did with Mark's home. The Irwins did not have access to their home before the search warrant was executed because police had secured it and they stayed elsewhere.

Did this happen with Mark and his home? Did he stay elsewhere until the search warrant was executed?

 

[KateNY]

The only other case that I'm familiar with that had a significant delay before a search warrant was executed was in the Lisa Irwin case.

That was for a little over two weeks. The police had previously searched the Irwin home with consent like they did with Mark's home. The Irwins did not have access to their home before the search warrant was executed because police had secured it and they stayed elsewhere.

Did this happen with Mark and his home? Did he stay elsewhere until the search warrant was executed?

looks like he was home...?.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22063185/sunday-search-launched-missing-boy-laplata-county

11/25/2012
Mark Redwine said Sunday that he hadn't been able to find the boy's fishing rod.
"I question why it has taken this long to start scouring the lake because from Day One they have known it is likely he had a fishing pole with him," Redwine, 52, said.


http://www.durangoherald.com/articl...-vigil-tonight-in-Bayfield-for-missing-teen--
November 27
When approached at his home in Vallecito, Mark Redwine answered the door clutching a pillow. He declined to be interviewed, saying he had been “bombarded” by media requests.
He said he didn’t have a lot of support at the moment and had family coming in to help him figure out how to respond to the situation. Mark Redwine said he expected his brother to arrive Tuesday night in Vallecito.

 

[Salem]

Thanks for bringing this to us Kate.

I found the part under "Investigative Officer" were it says "Correct and investigate the reasons for conflicting information offered by witnesses and other individuals." to be very interesting.

I would hope that LE did that at the very beginning of this case. And if they did why was there a 10 day delay in executing the search warrant?

There was also the part about conducting an immediate, thorough search of the child's home. LE did an initial search, with MR's consent, before the warrant. We just don't know how thorough LE was - we don't know if they saw the cereal bowl sitting by the sink (or in the drain rack if MR washed it), or if they saw any clothing on the couch (like the reporter said was there).

A bit frustrating for us.... What exactly does an "immediate, thorough search" mean?

Salem