Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

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Many doctors and therapists will not even accept BPD’s as patients.
In addition to feeling hugely sympathetic to your whole plight and situation, the above makes me very angry. :furious:

My teen aged niece also has BPD and my sister had to make hundreds of phonecalls to find a therapist who would work with her, at a time when she was suicidal and cutting her arms with glass.

This to me is appalling: If you are trained as a therapist then you should be there to help, not just accepting cushy and easy patients. She did tell her other doctor of the problem she encountered and he told her that these therapists should be reported.
 
I think she was threatening him with the sex tape... and by that point he was probably pretty sure that Jodi was the one who slashed his tires and was stalking him too...

Travis was trying to finally rid himself of her once and for all, and Jodi didn't Rilke that at all...

We know he knew she was a sociopath because of the texts he sent her at the end of may... He was DONE WITH HER! He also told her that her "account with him had ended" and she needed to start paying him back...

Here are some of those texts..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1724
Thank you so much for posting that link! :)

I had been wanting to view those for the longest time, but didn't know where to find them.

ETA:After reading these (I hate to open up a can of worms, but....) I cannot help feeling again as I and another poster on a different thread here were both saying a couple of weeks ago:

These texts, in addition with his "coming out" to the church officials and being put on probation, and his blogging about looking for a wife, seem to indicate that he would not have let her in and had sex with her on June 4. As you say, he was done, as in DONE.

The other poster and I had theorized (on the sequence of events thread) that she had snuck in and ambushed him, and that the sex pics were from another , prior, date (the date and time stamp being set wrong, or manipulated by police to get a confession).

I know it sounds crazy, but reading these texts has me thinking that way again....very strongly....
 
I have a sister who is PURE EVIL. I cut her out like a malignant cancer. Noone in the family speaks to her now.
 
I have a sister who is PURE EVIL. I cut her out like a malignant cancer. Noone in the family speaks to her now.
We have one like that, too. My deepest sympathies. Problem is, no one ever cut her off, as my mother would not allow it. :furious:
 
Another thing which becomes clear in reading those texts of Travis:

How much he is becoming aware of what he is up against, who and what he allowed into his life and into his bed. It was already too late for him, which is so sad. He really had gotten in over his head with JA...

Does anyone know specifically what Travis meant by things like, "You have scammed me, you have hurt me more than anyone I can cojure" and "you only care who can serve your sick agenda and your evil"?

Its tragically and hugely obvious that he was now onto her pathology, but I just wonder what specifically he felt was a scam or her agenda and evil at that point??? ( really more reason to doubt he let her in on June 4 or engaged in sex with her at that late date)
 
I think she was threatening him with the sex tape... and by that point he was probably pretty sure that Jodi was the one who slashed his tires and was stalking him too...

Travis was trying to finally rid himself of her once and for all, and Jodi didn't Rilke that at all...

We know he knew she was a sociopath because of the texts he sent her at the end of may... He was DONE WITH HER! He also told her that her "account with him had ended" and she needed to start paying him back...

Here are some of those texts..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1724
OK, the red bolded above probably answers my question.....But I wonder what reason she was giving? Since she was dishonest with him about wanting to marry him, leaving him totally in the dark about her true feelings, I really must wonder what reason she was giving? Anybody know? Such as, "Either do ________ or I will play the sex tape for the church people." What was she asking him for?
 
I'm hoping we get lots more insight into her relationship with her parents. I agree their relationship and reactions seem "off".

I've seen with my own eyes, parents who have good intentions but do not know how to parent well. They provide for their kids basic needs, but the kids just kind of "exist" in the household. There isn't a lot of interest, talking or listening to their kids. They are just there. Not saying that is what happened here, but her parents seem a bit disconnected with her.

And sometimes it's just a matter of problems between the parents, and they are consumed with their own issues and pay no attention to what their kids are going through. Again, just speculating, it will be interesting to see more of their interviews.

I am wondering about this too, jojo.

What disturbs me is JA's story about the dog. She said something to the effect of "our family didn't take good care of the dog and just left it tied up in the yard"

Now aside from the rest of the story about her kicking it and never seeing it again :)what:), it basically led me to believe no one bothered to nurture the dog. It is not much of a stretch in my personal view, to think that people that get animals and do not care for them, are not going to make very good parents either.
 
I am wondering about this too, jojo.

What disturbs me is JA's story about the dog. She said something to the effect of "our family didn't take good care of the dog and just left it tied up in the yard"

Now aside from the rest of the story about her kicking it and never seeing it again :)what:), it basically led me to believe no one bothered to nurture the dog. It is not much of a stretch in my personal view, to think that people that get animals and do not care for them, are not going to make very good parents either.
Good point. If the dog was ignored that would point to other things being ignored also.
 
So many posts of people wondering why parents did not get help for their mentally ill daughter. It is here that I wish to tell you of my experience with life with a personality disorder or the mosaic of this with emotional disorders. My brother and I are both adopted from different birth parents. He is 16 months older than I. As a toddler he displayed personality disorder traits. My grandmother ( a nurse) wanted them to send him back to the children's aid society. My parents did not as they correctly viewed him as human not an animal that you can return. In kindergarden my brother broke hi s hand hitting an other boy at party. His violent outbreaks continued and grew in intensity and severity. He was bought in every type of counseling my parents could find. He was receded to psychiatrists and refused to attend sessions. All the while my parents and I lived in a was zone terrorized by a teenaged boy that was physically strong. He broke my dad's rips, punched and hit us, broke furniture punched wholes in the walls. My parents continued to get help for him everywhere. When I was 17 my parents were on holiday and he brutally beat a girl. The night before he had pinned me on the ground but I was able to de-escalate him and avoided a beating. He served 7 years in jail and blamed me as I was witness to the girls beating and testified. He was never allowed in our home again. His behavior continues to this day. My parents died prematurely

before my 40th birthday and I know that it had to do with life with my
brother. We all lived with knowledge that people thought my parents raised him wrong and never sought help. It has caused damage to me too. The point of my post is that there are family victims of those charged with crime. Make no assumptions about her parents by the small clips we have seen this today.
Sorry for long post.

I appreciated your post. I have a relative that has gone through an excruiating process with a child(nothing as awful or trumatic as you described.) And I know first hand that their heads were never in the sand. Sought counseling, loved thier child, fought for her, constantly examining thier own choices(did they cause this) ect. I get sooo angry when I listen to the talking heads like Dr. Drew and Bethany Marshall and thier constant rant..."get help,,, get conservatorship..take control!" They are so ignorant about how the most dedicated, knowlegable and loving parents can not force change or help. In our state, you need three Psch Dr to sign off before someone is admitted unvoluntarily to a mental health facility and even with conservatorship, you can't force meds. But as far as the JA case, I do feel there is something terrible wrong here. Yes JA is an adult and I doubt they could do much for the reasons I stated above. But at one point she was a child. When did all this begin? And sometimes parents are to blame to a certain extent. What struck me about the tapes is how quickly they threw her under the bus. I might know my child is ill or needs to be held accountable but I sure would not have aided the prosecution like that. They had no inkling to protect their child. No matter what your child has done, I think most would have at least thought lets get a lawyer and sought this out before making such statements to the police. They had to know the detective was not there to"help them or JA) Both parents are masking their true roles in her life.
And one other point,in my early career as a social worker with disturbed, neglected, abused or ajudicated teens, I can tell you this....99% of the time, kids do not run away from functional and healthy homes. The dysfuntion may not be readily apparent, but it's there. Mom may have been told not to express emotion in court but I'm not buying that that is what her aloofness is about. I honestly think they have absolutely no love for thier child. My arm chair diagnosis...dad was sexually inapproriate with JA and was most likely emotional abusive...mom was passive aggressive, maybe jealous of JA especially if she was picking up on dad's sexualizing of JA, unloving and was rejecting of JA very early.
 
I'm reading over on the media thread.
Travis was killed on June 4th but wasn't supposed to leave for Cancun until June 10th? Nobody missed him during the five days in between?

Often there seems to be weird circumstances in cases that go beyond the crime.

It does seem odd. I was watching some of the unedited tape yesterday, and Flores was telling Jodi the roommate was just in despair and disbelief that he didn't notice. According to Flores, that roommate would call him 2-3 times a week and was very very upset.

Much more so than Jodi, even though there was nothing he could have done to help Travis.
 
Thank you so much for posting that link! :)

I had been wanting to view those for the longest time, but didn't know where to find them.

ETA:After reading these (I hate to open up a can of worms, but....) I cannot help feeling again as I and another poster on a different thread here were both saying a couple of weeks ago:

These texts, in addition with his "coming out" to the church officials and being put on probation, and his blogging about looking for a wife, seem to indicate that he would not have let her in and had sex with her on June 4. As you say, he was done, as in DONE.

The other poster and I had theorized (on the sequence of events thread) that she had snuck in and ambushed him, and that the sex pics were from another , prior, date (the date and time stamp being set wrong, or manipulated by police to get a confession).

I know it sounds crazy, but reading these texts has me thinking that way again....very strongly....

Interesting theory. But why would she have had his camera going if she ambused him? If the shower photos were not from that date, which is possible, the ones of her dragging him had to be the time of the murder. Is it possible she wanted "trophy photos"? There is a point in the interrogation tapes when the detective tells her about the photos, she asks could they have been from another time. A spec of truth?
 
I think she was threatening him with the sex tape... and by that point he was probably pretty sure that Jodi was the one who slashed his tires and was stalking him too...

Travis was trying to finally rid himself of her once and for all, and Jodi didn't Rilke that at all...

We know he knew she was a sociopath because of the texts he sent her at the end of may... He was DONE WITH HER! He also told her that her "account with him had ended" and she needed to start paying him back...

Here are some of those texts..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1724
I think you are right about her using the sex tape to threaten him. He threatened her with the wrath that would unfold if she didn't come clean, and also told her that the post re: Danny made her look like a *advertiser censored*. I think her payback was going to be exposing their sexual relationship to make him like a *advertiser censored* in others eyes too, and to ruin any potential relationships he may be trying to start. I think their relationship was past the point of no return. It was over in her mind and she had no control over it. Her evil war against him had begun.
He had her pegged. It is eerie to read his texts calling her a sociopath etc. He finally knew exactly what he was dealing with and it was too late.
 
We have one like that, too. My deepest sympathies. Problem is, no one ever cut her off, as my mother would not allow it. :furious:

Mine, as I mentioned, was a therapist. She was able to use that as a wonderful tool to manipulate. She's the expert after all. If anyone disagreed with her, they were all crazy. I am still working on forgiveness. I'm not there yet.
 
Interesting theory. But why would she have had his camera going if she ambused him? If the shower photos were not from that date, which is possible, the ones of her dragging him had to be the time of the murder. Is it possible she wanted "trophy photos"? There is a point in the interrogation tapes when the detective tells her about the photos, she asks could they have been from another time. A spec of truth?
That is what I and the other poster (cannot recall his name now, I think something like BW0000 on the Jodi Arias sequence of events thread here) were thinking. All of what you just posted, he and I had pondered.

Because when you look at his last texts to JA, Traivs is saying things like, "You are a sociopath; you''re the worst thing that ever happened to me; you are evil with a sick agenda; If Danny knew what I know about you he would spit in your face; I want you out of my life"------added together with his going to the church elders and telling him about his huge mistake (having gotten involved with Arias) and letting people know he was on probation ("temple unworthy") does NOT jive with getting naked with her right before Cancun. Something is off.

I have an intuition that she snuck in to kill him on June 4. Either that, or talked her way in with the check, but not for sex. It just seems like Travis would not be that bad to himself at that point, or that good to her. He was severely, deeply, disillusioned with her. Not a real turn on.
 
Mine, as I mentioned, was a therapist. She was able to use that as a wonderful tool to manipulate. She's the expert after all. If anyone disagreed with her, they were all crazy. I am still working on forgiveness. I'm not there yet.
If she hasn't ask for your forgiveness or has not earned it, don't bother. Forgiveness has to be earned. I tried forgiving my sister, and she upped the ante and became 10 x worse.

That is what is scary: The field of therapy draws such people to it because they can have one-on-one control over people, they can label anyone who disagrees with them, and they have a steady supply of narcissistic ego-feeding stuff. ugh
 
I appreciated your post. I have a relative that has gone through an excruiating process with a child(nothing as awful or trumatic as you described.) And I know first hand that their heads were never in the sand. Sought counseling, loved thier child, fought for her, constantly examining thier own choices(did they cause this) ect. I get sooo angry when I listen to the talking heads like Dr. Drew and Bethany Marshall and thier constant rant..."get help,,, get conservatorship..take control!" They are so ignorant about how the most dedicated, knowlegable and loving parents can not force change or help. In our state, you need three Psch Dr to sign off before someone is admitted unvoluntarily to a mental health facility and even with conservatorship, you can't force meds. But as far as the JA case, I do feel there is something terrible wrong here. Yes JA is an adult and I doubt they could do much for the reasons I stated above. But at one point she was a child. When did all this begin? And sometimes parents are to blame to a certain extent. What struck me about the tapes is how quickly they threw her under the bus. I might know my child is ill or needs to be held accountable but I sure would not have aided the prosecution like that. They had no inkling to protect their child. No matter what your child has done, I think most would have at least thought lets get a lawyer and sought this out before making such statements to the police. They had to know the detective was not there to"help them or JA) Both parents are masking their true roles in her life.
And one other point,in my early career as a social worker with disturbed, neglected, abused or ajudicated teens, I can tell you this....99% of the time, kids do not run away from functional and healthy homes. The dysfuntion may not be readily apparent, but it's there. Mom may have been told not to express emotion in court but I'm not buying that that is what her aloofness is about. I honestly think they have absolutely no love for thier child. My arm chair diagnosis...dad was sexually inapproriate with JA and was most likely emotional abusive...mom was passive aggressive, maybe jealous of JA especially if she was picking up on dad's sexualizing of JA, unloving and was rejecting of JA very early.

Yes--agree with most of this. I too had the feeling her parents were very detached. Especially the father. Teens do not run away from a healthy, functional family home. Something was wrong with the whole family. Probably there was nothing that could have been done to help Jodi as an adult. But was there anything the parents could have done when she was a child ? We'll never know. It seems like they didn't even ever TRY and get any help for her.
 
So many posts of people wondering why parents did not get help for their mentally ill daughter. It is here that I wish to tell you of my experience with life with a personality disorder or the mosaic of this with emotional disorders. My brother and I are both adopted from different birth parents. He is 16 months older than I. As a toddler he displayed personality disorder traits. My grandmother ( a nurse) wanted them to send him back to the children's aid society. My parents did not as they correctly viewed him as human not an animal that you can return. In kindergarden my brother broke hi s hand hitting an other boy at party. His violent outbreaks continued and grew in intensity and severity. He was bought in every type of counseling my parents could find. He was receded to psychiatrists and refused to attend sessions. All the while my parents and I lived in a was zone terrorized by a teenaged boy that was physically strong. He broke my dad's rips, punched and hit us, broke furniture punched wholes in the walls. My parents continued to get help for him everywhere. When I was 17 my parents were on holiday and he brutally beat a girl. The night before he had pinned me on the ground but I was able to de-escalate him and avoided a beating. He served 7 years in jail and blamed me as I was witness to the girls beating and testified. He was never allowed in our home again. His behavior continues to this day. My parents died prematurely

before my 40th birthday and I know that it had to do with life with my
brother. We all lived with knowledge that people thought my parents raised him wrong and never sought help. It has caused damage to me too. The point of my post is that there are family victims of those charged with crime. Make no assumptions about her parents by the small clips we have seen this today.
Sorry for long post.

Thanks for sharing. Was your brother ever turned in for assault on the family members? Breaking your fathers ribs is not acceptable, I think, even as a father, I would have called the police at that point. Or some point in time sooner.
I am sorry you had to go through that, but glad you made it out.
 
Yes yes, you saved me from the embarrassing position of outing my computer illiteracy!! I don't mind so much about the highly personal stuff :floorlaugh:
Daughters of N Mothers that's the one!
I absolutely agree with you, people who go through this stuff are generally full of amazing insights, because after all the oppressed always knows more than the oppressor, because they see both sides of the coin.
I also agree that using the bad for good gives us privileged gift because we 'get' it, and when talking to other people who aren't quite there yet, they know we speak from genuine experience and authentic congruent selves. That is a very special gift arising from hard work against the odds. Well done you!!
That site was very helpful to me in identifying and explaining specific behaviours of N mums, and so enlightening that I could see that the 'mental crack' that I had was the light getting in;)
My mother has been gone for over 30 years, but her memory lives on in my siblings, with whom I have no contact. She was exactly the same as yours, nobody would have guessed. My extended family in Scotland still think of her fondly...and it's the feeling of never ever knowing that you are believed and that things did happen that can make it so unreal.
So, three cheers for the black sheep, hip hip...


:seeya:

Cheers from a (former?) Black Sheep. This black sheep/golden child perfectly explains my same experience. Up until the past couple of years, I was the crazy one, I was the unstable one, I was the black sheep according to Mom. She moved to another State back then to live near my Brother in her old age, so he could "take care of her." Now, she thinks HE is the crazy, unstable one! Now I can't get her off the phone with me! Now she has latched onto me for dear life. This is completely topsy-turvy and hard to fathom. Was I crazy back then, and is he crazy now? Or is it her...
 
I am wondering about this too, jojo.

What disturbs me is JA's story about the dog. She said something to the effect of "our family didn't take good care of the dog and just left it tied up in the yard"

Now aside from the rest of the story about her kicking it and never seeing it again :)what:), it basically led me to believe no one bothered to nurture the dog. It is not much of a stretch in my personal view, to think that people that get animals and do not care for them, are not going to make very good parents either.

Agreed. It's very telling about a person how they treat innocent creatures and those weaker or more vulnerable than they are. But maybe JA abused the dog b/c she was being treated like a dog as has been suggested. Violence begets violence unless the victim is of strong enough character to end the cycle.
 
ATasteOf, you are very welcome, and it's my pleasure! We all of us have great things to say and learn from, and if it helps us to gain a deeper knowledge/insight about us, then that can only ever be a good thing.
It is so impressive, heartwarming, and inspirational to hear about how others have coped through serious darkness and pain.:clap:

Dear Gecko - as I look back at the now thousands of posts on this thread, yours have moved me the most. Maybe I identify with you the most. It has been your posts that I have replied to the most. I was that silent child who didn't have a voice growing up. Who felt totally helpless and weak of mind and ego strength. It felt like my spirit was crushed and I lost all whatever potential I might have had, under better circumstances while growing up. I was diagnosed at age 25 with schizo-affective disorder. It has features of both psychosis and mood disorder. I had several psychiatric hospitalizations and shock therapy treatments. Took anti-psychotic meds and meds for the mood disorder (deep depression). I believe that I was probably born with the genetic possibility of this disorder, but my environment brought it to full flower, with devastating results for me. You and others on this thread are kind and understanding and I appreciate all of you.
 
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