IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[jjenny]

She could have died from any number of things. Drug or alcohol overdose, Long QT, hitting her head. Parents interview makes it clear they believe she was in very poor shape. Of course none of it explains where she is.

 

[akh]

You don't need a body to prosecute, but at least you need some evidence and an idea of what happened.
And even in cases where it's pretty obvious who the suspect is, prosecution is not eager to prosecute without a body.
I am not sure police has anything like that here.

That was my point... Any posters that feel they are certain of what happened and that the video and witnesses make it absolutely clear she couldn't have walked anywhere at 4:30AM and that it's all cut and dried are ignoring that if it was that 'cut and dried' then there should be something there for LE to work with. IOW, the actual evidence LE must have must not be that cut and dried to reach that ultimate conclusion. If LE can't be certain then we shouldn't be certain either.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Did anyone post these yet? (Sorry if I missed them)

Spierer Family: Students know more than they're saying

video.foxnews.com/v/2424318810001/spierer-family-students-know-more-than-theyre-saying-/

Interview with retired FBI agent

video.foxnews.com/v/2424247417001/lauren-spierers-disappearance-baffles-investigators/

That interview was gut wrenching. I've said before that because I am the exact same physical size as Lauren, and because my little girl is like my clone except my little girl is blonde with the same blue eyes as Laurens, I've always drawn these eventual physical parallels between Lauren and my daughter. Then when CS said that about the way Lauren pretended as a little girl, I gasped. My daughter does the exact same thing, From that point on through the interview I filled with a visceral empathy for CS. I actual even feel emotionally spent after watching that. I want so much for them to find her and I want so much for their pain to be eased to whatever extent that is can be.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Interesting tidbit about JR from today's Bloomington H-T newspaper, a "what the POI are doing then and now" article:

"Now: Formed Imovation Solutions with childhood friend David Bleznak in January 2012. The Birmingham, Mich.-based company promotes brands ...They created an “advergame” for Five Hour Energy drink.

A phone call last week to the number listed for Imovation Solutions resulted in a call to a company called Bleznak Associates. The woman who answered the phone said Jay Rosenbaum does not work there."

Maybe the out-of-town guest and his host had a tiff. For me, the out-of-towners are the biggest unknown and therefore the biggest wildcard, and rate much higher in likelihood than random abduction.

Meanwhile...smh at JW's mother. Anger management issues and a lack of tact must run in the family.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...rs-in-the-spierer-case-where-are-they-now.sto

In LinkedIn under DB's account is states: Leasing Associate at Tucker Development Corporation Location Chicago, Illinois Industry Commercial Real Estate

April 2013 – Present (3 months)Highlans Park, IL

So it appears maybe JR and DB have parted ways. To bad the Spierer's can't get DB to talk to them. Bet he knows just as much as the 5N guys.

 

[imkeylime]

That interview was gut wrenching. I've said before that because I am the exact same physical size as Lauren, and because my little girl is like my clone except my little girl is blonde with the same blue eyes as Laurens, I've always drawn these eventual physical parallels between Lauren and my daughter. Then when CS said that about the way Lauren pretended as a little girl, I gasped. My daughter does the exact same thing, From that point on through the interview I filled with a visceral empathy for CS. I actual even feel emotionally spent after watching that. I want so much for them to find her and I want so much for their pain to be eased to whatever extent that is can be.

I know exactly what you mean. I fell into this case because LS reminded me of my teen daughter. Every time my daughter wears something Hello Kitty, or I buy her something Hello Kitty, I think of LS. And that happens a lot, since she loves Hello Kitty.

Also, CS has such a quiet grace in the midst of pain. I can't see how any any other parent can't respect and emphasize with that.

 

[Ixchel13]

In LinkedIn under DB's account is states: Leasing Associate at Tucker Development Corporation Location Chicago, Illinois Industry Commercial Real Estate

April 2013 – Present (3 months)Highlans Park, IL

So it appears maybe JR and DB have parted ways. To bad the Spierer's can't get DB to talk to them. Bet he knows just as much as the 5N guys.

I guess that this guy(DB's dad) is some sort of big shot/real estate developer/slumlord in Michigan.
We may be actually getting somewhere: suppose DB's dad doesn't want his kid sullying the Bleznak name, afterall, such a money loss--so he calls out favors in the Tucker RealEstateWorld--bam! His kid works for them now.
At this point I am more than willing to go with the ideas that Lauren might have gone back to CR and MB townhouse, or JR immediately went upstairs and his houseguest caught up with Lauren..
If it is the houseguest, then JR may/may not be covering for him. It actually just could come down to one person (DB or MB)being the culprit. If that is true, it could be someone who knew she was leaving JR's, or a random/slight acquaintance abduction.
For one crazy minute, suppose JR actually did sober up Lauren enough to
get her out the door, I know people have a hard time thinking about that.
After that, he's thinking OMG, I'm drunk and stoned, need to go to bed now. Remember, he claims that he had to put on clothes when she came over from CR's. Was he solo? If so, that leaves him and out of town guest(s) there.
If not, who was he hooked up with? If he was hooked up, did this person leave and come back? Was the out of town guest hooked up with someone? This is important.Was DB or friend out on the town and then hooking up with a bar manager later? Manager is a relative word. Alot of bar "managers" make less than 12.00 per hour. It's all about the so-called power of being able to make decisions. For example, a bar manager can delete items from a check after a waiter has already collected the full amount. A bar manager can allow nthe waiter to serve drinks that are not rung up in return for--(??) Now that person (mgr) is going to be treated to all kinds of favors--but what could that be other than drugs or sex? The waiter is not about to give any of their hard-earned cash to the mgr.
Out of all the POIs, only the out of town guests would be important enough for JR to lie/just not think about what might have happened. Were DB and friend the ones called last, and were they watching the game with Lauren's roommates?
OK say you were this out of town dealer. You were over at SW, still from watching the game w. HT, ZO, etc, not in Lauren's apt but down the hall, and you receive intelligence (text, pic, etc,) from Kilroy's saying **** is going down-- Lauren is not reacting well to something you gave/sold her or DR.
so they hightail it back to 5N (2 min). Now, while Lauren, CR (?) and DR (?)
are with Lauren cutting up at Kilroy's, and then getting in an altercation at SW-- DB and/or DB's friend leave(s) SW's and head up to 5N.
It's going to take Lauren and CR and _____? another 15-25 min to get back to 5N. By that time, pictures have already been sent IMO from Kilroy's and the altercation at SW, pictures sent to JW, and maybe HT and roommates. It's unbelievable the amount if pics these kids send nowadays, and for every little thing, and they are great for figuring out what will get attention!. Now, everyone, or let's just say their whole crowd, may be in on this. They have the capability of erasing these pics, but if someone saves one....does anyone have one? LE may be granting them a mulligan for keeping their mouths shut.
Being the USA, we may not be able to ask for every single one of every single one of their friends' pics for that night. Too bad.

 

[imkeylime]

Snipped by me. I have had the occasional thought that what JR might have given LS to sober her up ended up doing her in. Not Red Bull or coffee, but something a lot harder, like another drug. He might have thought he was doing her a favor but it backfired.

Or maybe it did work and she somehow stumbled out the door. But I stick by the thought that a decent guy wouldn't let a young woman leave without a cell phone and shoes at 4 in the morning. That alone is suspect, IMO. He may have not known about her keys, but it would be obvious that she was barefoot and without her phone.

I also think your ideas about the out of town guest make sense.

 

[AbbeyR]

Why would DB and/or other out of town guest, who have never been named POI or focused on by the Spierers, be more likely suspects than the people who have been named POI, and who haven't fully cooperated with the investigation?

Not a snarky question, and I have nothing against looking into these guys. I wish we had more info on them!

I'm just trying to follow the logic...

 

[Ixchel13]

Snipped by me. I have had the occasional thought that what JR might have given LS to sober her up ended up doing her in. Not Red Bull or coffee, but something a lot harder, like another drug. He might have thought he was doing her a favor but it backfired.

Or maybe it did work and she somehow stumbled out the door. But I stick by the thought that a decent guy wouldn't let a young woman leave without a cell phone and shoes at 4 in the morning. That alone is suspect, IMO. He may have not known about her keys, but it would be obvious that she was barefoot and without her phone.

I also think your ideas about the out of town guest make sense.

BBM. It might make their parents angry, but these guys aren't decent. No matter what Lauren might have been up against, no decent person leaves someone
in need of help stranded.
No matter what turns out, if JR did let her leave, he should always remember that he could have even called her parents to intervene if she insisted on leaving.
Once at a big event I was hosting, one of my waiters/mgrs ( 10 yr. employee) got really drunk, and it was totally behind my back, there were several bars set up and he went from one to another.
When I noticed he was totally soused I took his keys from his things. he wanted to leave, and I told him I had the keys and would have someone drive him home as soon as we could. He got angry, and when I wasn't looking, took a whole pitcher of water and threw it in my face!! Then, I was peeved and told this waiter to take him out to the patio. The waiter came back and said he was passed out on a picnic table. While I was busy, this supposedly passed out guy somehow got his keys because when I went to check on him later, he was gone and then I ran back and saw his keys were gone.
I should have fired him but didn't. Later that year, he had moved but wanted to stay over. I asked him if he was still drinking, and he said yes. I asked him if he realized that he could kill someone, even a whole family--from drunken driving. He said he didn't care, and then I told him not to come visit, and that we were no longer friends. Just curious also if Kilroy's or one of the other nearby bars had such a manager or bartender or bouncer.

 

[AbbeyR]

Abbey... just watched those videos. Thanks!

Things that caught my attention:

Rob and Charlene reiterated that they did speak with JR with an attorney, but had not been able to speak to either CR or MB. Hearing this again it stuck out to me that MB, who according to his own story was rather removed from the events of the night, has chosen not to speak to the Spierer's. Later in the video Charlene refers to the notion that MB was "supposedly sober and working on a paper". If the story of the 5N guys was true, I don't know why MB would refuse to talk to the Spierer's even with an attorney. Perhaps he is just scared of somehow being implicated... but it seems to me that public suspicion lies mostly with CR and JR.

When asked which one young man in particular they would most like to have a discussion with and ask questions of, Rob answered Corey. Personally, I find this interesting. It is understandable because CR was with Lauren the entire night and he is the individual who should have gotten her help much earlier in the evening. However, they do not mention JR and that he is supposedly the last person to see Lauren and to watch her walk away, and he is essentially confirming the CR and MB's stories while taking the blame as the last person to be with Lauren.

The Spierer's stated in this video that they in fact have not been able to view the Smallwood video of Lauren and Corey. This may already be known by y'all, but I wanted to point it out because I wasn't sure.

The Spierer's also state that LE has never contacted them regarding another assault in Bloomington indicating that they see a possibility it is connected to Lauren's case. Of course, LE doesn't share everything about the investigation with the family.

The Spierer's seem to focus most of their attention on the 5N gang.. but they do mention that there is a small chance an abduction is possible.

I have a great amount of respect for the Spierer's. They appear to conduct themselves with class and dignity throughout the most difficult time any parent could go through. JW's parents and CR have recently spoken out against the Spierer's in the media. While the Spierer's are honest about their suspicions of the POI's, I do not see them name calling, inciting the public, or throwing cheap insults around. In the public eye, at least, they speak of the boys as respectfully as possible (difficult in some instances).<snipped a little for space>

Good post, Dixie. Lots to think about...

I also noticed that both CR and MB still haven't spoken to the Spierers. I thought his mom vowed that they would speak with them any time (on IDS). Every single comment by the POI, their parents and lawyers seems to be nothing but insincerity, lies and attempts to manipulate public perception.

And yes, fully agree with you about the Spierers. They've shown nothing but grace, and it just brings out the true colors of the POI even more by contrast.

 

[AbbeyR]

Off the topic of our current conversation, but something came up that made me think of this: I'm (still) wondering:

Respectfully, was Tony Gatto working on behalf of a news network when he wrote the blog about Lauren, independently, or privately? When he went to Press conferences, did he show his work affiliation as a member of the Press? He backed up the legitimacy of his blog by stating his previous work experience working in news (and claimed he wasn't a 'blogger'), but I couldn't find any mention of who he was working for. Isn't it standard practice to be transparent about this in the world of journalism? Or did I just miss it? Apologies if I did.

Tony or anyone else, could you clarify?

TIA!

 

[akh]

Every single comment by the POI, their parents and lawyers seems to be nothing but insincerity, lies and attempts to manipulate public perception.

And yes, fully agree with you about the Spierers. They've shown nothing but grace, and it just brings out the true colors of the POI even more by contrast.

I hesitate to say this but here goes.... We don't really have any idea what tactics the Spierers might be using in the background. More importantly, what about the PI's they've hired? The Spierers could stay above the fray while they let the PI's do any number of things that could be causing the friction we've now heard from a couple of people.

The Spierers could even tell the PI's "Do what you gotta do, we don't want to know how you operate. Just do it.". The PsOI and their families are still going to blame the Spierers for any pressure or issues the PI's are causing them even if the Spierers are giving perfectly sympathetic and carefully thought out interviews to the press.

And who could blame them for manipulating the press all things considered? Who could blame them for pressures they might be exerting from behind the scenes on the PsOI? I wouldn't be surprised if they were much less passive behind the scenes than they come off in interviews.

Do we really think these people/family just snapped the way they did because a reporter had some questions for the first time in months?

 

[AbbeyR]

I hesitate to say this but here goes.... We don't really have any idea what tactics the Spierers might be using in the background. More importantly, what about the PI's they've hired? The Spierers could stay above the fray while they let the PI's do any number of things that could be causing the friction we've now heard from a couple of people.

The Spierers could even tell the PI's "Do what you gotta do, we don't want to know how you operate. Just do it.". The PsOI and their families are still going to blame the Spierers for any pressure or issues the PI's are causing them even if the Spierers are giving perfectly sympathetic and carefully thought out interviews to the press.

And who could blame them for manipulating the press all things considered? Who could blame them for pressures they might be exerting from behind the scenes on the PsOI? I wouldn't be surprised if they were much less passive behind the scenes than they come off in interviews.

Do we really think these people/family just snapped the way they did because a reporter had some questions for the first time in months?

I don't think they snapped at all. I think they were trying to manipulate the media on the anniversary of Lauren's disappearance. It's obvious and it's despicable, IMO.

If the POI actually had anything to go on as far as unfair tactics, I'm sure they would make it public. Since they haven't, why would I assume the Spierers have done anything wrong or that they are manipulating the media? There's zero evidence of that.

 

[Ros]

BBM. It might make their parents angry, but these guys aren't decent. No matter what Lauren might have been up against, no decent person leaves someone
in need of help stranded.
No matter what turns out, if JR did let her leave, he should always remember that he could have even called her parents to intervene if she insisted on leaving.
Once at a big event I was hosting, one of my waiters/mgrs ( 10 yr. employee) got really drunk, and it was totally behind my back, there were several bars set up and he went from one to another.
When I noticed he was totally soused I took his keys from his things. he wanted to leave, and I told him I had the keys and would have someone drive him home as soon as we could. He got angry, and when I wasn't looking, took a whole pitcher of water and threw it in my face!! Then, I was peeved and told this waiter to take him out to the patio. The waiter came back and said he was passed out on a picnic table. While I was busy, this supposedly passed out guy somehow got his keys because when I went to check on him later, he was gone and then I ran back and saw his keys were gone.
I should have fired him but didn't. Later that year, he had moved but wanted to stay over. I asked him if he was still drinking, and he said yes. I asked him if he realized that he could kill someone, even a whole family--from drunken driving. He said he didn't care, and then I told him not to come visit, and that we were no longer friends. Just curious also if Kilroy's or one of the other nearby bars had such a manager or bartender or bouncer.

TG's blog post of June 18 said that LS was at Kilroy's alone and was made to leave because of her condition. The information was attributed to "a person close to the case" and "sources who were at Kilroy's."

 

[imkeylime]

BBM. It might make their parents angry, but these guys aren't decent. No matter what Lauren might have been up against, no decent person leaves someone
in need of help stranded.
No matter what turns out, if JR did let her leave, he should always remember that he could have even called her parents to intervene if she insisted on leaving.
Once at a big event I was hosting, one of my waiters/mgrs ( 10 yr. employee) got really drunk, and it was totally behind my back, there were several bars set up and he went from one to another.
When I noticed he was totally soused I took his keys from his things. he wanted to leave, and I told him I had the keys and would have someone drive him home as soon as we could. He got angry, and when I wasn't looking, took a whole pitcher of water and threw it in my face!! Then, I was peeved and told this waiter to take him out to the patio. The waiter came back and said he was passed out on a picnic table. While I was busy, this supposedly passed out guy somehow got his keys because when I went to check on him later, he was gone and then I ran back and saw his keys were gone.
I should have fired him but didn't. Later that year, he had moved but wanted to stay over. I asked him if he was still drinking, and he said yes. I asked him if he realized that he could kill someone, even a whole family--from drunken driving. He said he didn't care, and then I told him not to come visit, and that we were no longer friends. Just curious also if Kilroy's or one of the other nearby bars had such a manager or bartender or bouncer.

Yes, even if LS insisted on going home, JR could have walked with her. Or followed. Or somehow made sure she arrived.

It was good of you to try and watch out for your employee that way. Hopefully LE has checked out employees at Kilroy's and other local bars. I remember a murder committed not too long ago by a bouncer. One never knows.

I'm not against looking at all possibilities. But I can't help but think that some of the POIs play into it, somehow.

 

[akh]

I don't think they snapped at all. I think they were trying to manipulate the media on the anniversary of Lauren's disappearance. It's obvious and it's despicable, IMO.

If the POI actually had anything to go on as far as unfair tactics, I'm sure they would make it public. Since they haven't, why would I assume the Spierers have done anything wrong or that they are manipulating the media? There's zero evidence of that.

Terrible job of manipulation if that was their intention.

 

[imkeylime]

Why would DB and/or other out of town guest, who have never been named POI or focused on by the Spierers, be more likely suspects than the people who have been named POI, and who haven't fully cooperated with the investigation?

Not a snarky question, and I have nothing against looking into these guys. I wish we had more info on them!

I'm just trying to follow the logic...

IDK. I wonder about JR having more than one out of town guest ... and we've only heard about DB. That seems strange, even if said guest cooperated. Then again, LE has no responsibility in sharing that info, I suppose.

Speculatively ... because I have little left tonight. Let's say there was another guest ... and that guest traveled with DB to Bloomington. That guest could have used DB's phone to tweet about the Runcible Spoon while DB was elsewhere. I realize the tweet itself is suspect, but having seen it, it must have originated from somewhere. Again, IDK.

 

[doubtingthomas]

I need a clarification. RS/CS have said that CR has refused to talk to them. I thought I also read that CR has not talked to LE. If this is true, how can his attorney keep LE from questioning him? Did he meet with LE and just not said anything or has he not met with LE? If his attorney had kept CR from taking to LE wouldn't that be interferring with an investigation?

 

[akh]

I need a clarification. RS/CS have said that CR has refused to talk to them. I thought I also read that CR has not talked to LE. If this is true, how can his attorney keep LE from questioning him? Did he meet with LE and just not said anything or has he not met with LE? If his attorney had kept CR from taking to LE wouldn't that be interferring with an investigation?

I thought there was news video of CR leaving the police station? And didn't CR provide a DNA sample to LE?

 

[Dixie811]

I wrote out a long post with some info from media articles back from June 2011.

Went to post, and my internet crapped out on me.

Going to go bang my head on the wall. Carry on.